A girlfriend is not a lost puppy.

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RetroGamer87
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12 Sep 2018, 7:00 am

Spiderpig wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
It's communication, and nothing I have read has been at the level I need. So I'm in the supermarket and there must be at least 100 men in there so the odds are at least a couple are going to be single and potentially interested in me; so in what way do they appear different from the others? Do not say the ones flirting because you will have missed out some stages and those are the stages I have problems with.


If I were one of them, I’d be potentially interested in you. As in, I’d know nothing about you, except for your looks, so unless you looked distinctly unattractive or hostile, approaching you would be at least as good a shot at breaking out of my social, romantic and sexual isolation as any other. I wish there were a magical way to let each other know exactly what we want, and to assure each other they’re not going to be forced or pressured into anything they don’t want—but mostly that I won’t force or pressure you into anything, I suppose. Since there’s no such thing, I wouldn’t make the slightest move, because as far as I know, it’d be harassment. I’ve read many texts by women saying they don’t go to <insert place here> to be approached. They never say they go anywhere to be approached, so the right thing to do seems to be to leave them alone, always.

As it happens, since I’ve met you here, I don’t know what you look like and do know a tiny bit of other things; namely, that you’re a writer, that you don’t like seeing anyone’s feet and that you have a very sensitive neck and seem to be very sensitive overall. Your sensitivity could prove a challenge, but it may still be worthwhile if it can be overcome to reach a fruitful and trusty connection with you—to someone who will actually meet you in real life and is good enough for you, that is.


You two have both raised very interesting point. My proposed solution to this problem is to just use dating sites. When you ask a girl out on a dating site, you already know she's single and interested.

How people paired up before dating sites were invented shall forever remain a mystery to me but I imagine it involved either mainframe computers or arranged marriages.


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12 Sep 2018, 7:24 am

Spiderpig wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It may be my ASD lack of empathy (I do have empathy. I'm not an emotionless robot or anything.), but I have an increasingly difficult time feeling bad for any of the long time complainers here.


Well, I don’t know what you mean by long-time complainers; in particular, whether I’m one.


The few usernames who post complaint after complaint about their dating/love/relationship lives & ignore almost all of the advice they're given to do something about it for themselves. No, I don't count you among them. None of them have posted in this thread - but I do somewhat hope they've read it so they can learn something from it.

Spiderpig wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It's not as if I've EVER posted "I can work make a bit of money, use my body for sports etc, and make friends and you can't, Nah nah nah nah nah nah!" or any such nonsense. Everyone who's been on this forum as long as I have knows what I've shared with the group. I've said "I can do all of these things & more now, and here's how I did it and how you can, too." And people do not want to do any work to treat their own symptoms in order to function higher and live better, happier, healthier lives free from major depression, anxiety, and strong AS symptoms that interfere with life. There are No secrets to my success. I have been incredibly transparent about everything I've learned and done.


Well, there are a few “secrets” from my point of view. There are some pretty important things you, and other people like Fnord, had to do to accomplish what you did, that I have no idea how you did. I was trying to find out something about them, as that’s what would be helpful to me. Especially if they give me any ideas about what I can do now, in my current situation. And it seems reasonable to think the same is probably true of some of those “complainers”, whether I’m one of them or not.

goldfish21 wrote:
I shared all of what I did here ONLY because I want it to help others.


And since you seemed to express frustration about being unable to help some people, I told you what I know from my perspective. It’s not always that they don’t want to help themselves.


I'm not sure what "secrets," I'm withholding, but I'll answer any questions. When I say there's no secret to my (relative) success, I mean that I have been completely transparent about what I do to treat my AS symptoms that allows me to function significantly higher & have social things come much more naturally and intuitively vs. learned/forced/mimicked/memorized etc. People here simply are not willing to do the work I did on myself for themselves, and in return for that, they're not getting the results I am.

Sure, I can answer questions and you can learn some things, but from My perspective, no amount of trying to learn and do these things is going to be better than "turning your social brain on," and having yourself functioning ever higher. I've experienced life crippling ASD symptoms, and the past few years, very mild symptoms. It's still bizarre to me that people opt to frustratingly fumble through life with complaints, struggles, and difficulties vs. opt to try what I have. It's each of your choices, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Spiderpig wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Many here are content with themselves and their symptoms and their lives, but for those who are constantly complaining about their social lives, love lives, work lives, financial situations (I was $110K in debt and bankrupt 6 years ago & unable to function well enough to work at all.) etc etc.. well, I have an increasingly difficult time feeling bad for those people. Especially the ones who make posts saying that their "stomach problems," (wrong organ) and their disabilities/mental health both keep getting worse.. still they refuse to see the correlation & have a will to do something about it for themselves.

No, this can't help every one of us. But it can help many. (70% according to medical stats) And from my perspective, I'd think with those that complain the most would want to change themselves and their lives the most.. but, they do not. They just want to complain. And that's their choice, it's their lives. All I can do is offer my knowledge to help them, but like the old adage says "God helps those who help themselves." I am Not comparing myself to God, but in a similar vein, I cannot help anyone that doesn't want to help themselves. I acknowledge this. It's just frustrating for me to sit here and read complaints from the same long time members over and over and over again when I've handed them the solution - they're just simply not wanting, willing, or ready to do anything for themselves. I'm Not wired like that. I'm not greedy, but I Want Better of & for myself and it's completely unfathomable to me to be in such a painful hurting place of suffering and not want to get oneself out of it by any means necessary.


All right. Most of that seems to escape me, probably because I don’t see it from the perspective of someone with your accomplishments. But I still think there’s more to it than meets the eye when some people look to you like they don’t want to help themselves. I know I’ve probably looked that way my whole life, and I do want to help myself. This includes shamelessly trying to find some useful knowledge in this thread.
Spiderpig wrote:

What escapes you? I figured out what was causing/exacerbating my AS symptoms to the nth degree ~5 years ago and shared on the forums how I use natural medicines (herbs/probiotics etc) & the protocol I follow to get my brain and nervous system firing on as many cylinders as possible so that I can live a better life. Very few here have opted to try any of it for themselves, and thus they fumble along in frustration trying to do things that may come with ease if their brains & bodies were functioning better. In my experience no amount of trying is ever going to achieve what I've managed to do via medicine. That's not to say trying is useless, it's just not what got me to where I'm at - unless, of course, you consider trying what I have. Simple as that, really.

Fnord wrote:
No ... you are failing to help yourselves.

From my perspective, it seems that all of those “I can’t get a girlfriend” threads hint at one underlying wish: That “The World” would just hand the writer his own, personal sex slave girlfriend and walk away.

But that’s not how it’s going to happen.

To attract someone, you must first be attractive in every way possible, and if you don’t want to make the effort, then it’s just too damned bad for you.

That’s life.


Well, I still don’t know who those people are, but certainly don’t want a slave, so I can’t be one of them.

I already admitted our attempts to help ourselves aren’t succeeding; this doesn’t invalidate the fact that if someone is trying to help us and fails, he’s failing at that particular endeavor, too. That’s why I gave him some hints I think are more visible from my perspective than from his, in case he actually wants to help, like he seemed to be saying. Otherwise, you both are still admirable and enviable, and know a lot of things about life that we could really use learning, but since you seem unwilling to share anything that at least I haven’t read many times before, I doubt there’s much left of interest in this thread to anyone other than an echo chamber for those who want to rejoice in how much better they are than us. Meanwhile, we’ll have to be busy helping ourselves elsewhere.


"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." I've been transparent about what I do to treat my symptoms and function higher. Very few are willing to try any of it for themselves. How can I fail to help people if they're unwilling to do the work required to help themselves? :?

Sure, 5 years ago many thought I was a liar/hoax or whatever, very skeptical.. but now there's a one year old published ASD medical study that corroborates everything I learned and shared here, right down to the chemical sensitivities.. and yet, still, people choose to complain instead of take action and do something to help themselves be healthier & have their brains function higher. I can't do a damned thing to make anyone want to treat their symptoms in order not to have such a frustrating time of life. ONLY each person can choose to do that for themselves.

By being completely transparent about the process that's worked for me, and will likely work for ~70% of people on the spectrum (according to a key medical stat about a common chemical sensitivity that 70% of us share), how exactly have I failed to help others? What more can I do besides tell them exactly what I've done (and do), how I've done it, and what the results have been fore me? These are serious questions. What else do you expect me to do besides tell you (others) exactly what I've done that's gotten me positive results I've gotten these past 5 years? :?

There's still social things people can learn and put into action to better their social lives.. but IMO, forcing yourself to memorize how to act in abc and xyz situation doesn't hold a candle to getting your enteric nervous system to function properly and then feel like you're "connected to the collective consciousness," & in turn naturally Knowing what to say and do. Sorry if you don't like hearing that, but that's my honest opinion that I base on my personal experiences. I'm not saying don't learn things and try to put them into action, I'm just saying it's been my experience of life that doing some real healing is far superior to trying to force yourself to learn how to do these things.


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12 Sep 2018, 8:16 am

Goldie, you're wasting pixels. These people don't want advice. They seem to only want service -- a "Golden Path" to an instant relationship that includes all of the benefits and none of the responsibilities.

Maybe you're a saint -- one who will not abandon lost causes -- but I am not. Good luck.


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rdos
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12 Sep 2018, 8:49 am

goldfish21 wrote:
It's still bizarre to me that people opt to frustratingly fumble through life with complaints, struggles, and difficulties vs. opt to try what I have. It's each of your choices, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.


I don't complain about "ASD" symptoms, and I don't struggle. The best way to "treat" ASD is to view it as something natural, learn how it works, and thrive in a positive and natural way. Learning all the rules so you become just like any other NT will not give you a fulfilling life.

goldfish21 wrote:
Sure, 5 years ago many thought I was a liar/hoax or whatever, very skeptical.. but now there's a one year old published ASD medical study that corroborates everything I learned and shared here, right down to the chemical sensitivities.. and yet, still, people choose to complain instead of take action and do something to help themselves be healthier & have their brains function higher. I can't do a damned thing to make anyone want to treat their symptoms in order not to have such a frustrating time of life. ONLY each person can choose to do that for themselves.


So you are relying on a one-year-old study that claims ASD can be cured? Could you please link it? I don't buy that kind of garbage.

goldfish21 wrote:
By being completely transparent about the process that's worked for me, and will likely work for ~70% of people on the spectrum (according to a key medical stat about a common chemical sensitivity that 70% of us share), how exactly have I failed to help others?


So, a chemical sensitivity can explain the problems people with ASD have with relationships? I think that is complete BS.



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12 Sep 2018, 8:54 am

Fnord wrote:
Goldie, you're wasting pixels. These people don't want advice. They seem to only want service -- a "Golden Path" to an instant relationship that includes all of the benefits and none of the responsibilities.


Ah, but that was how I imagined it would work once people had accepted & implemented all the advice you and "Goldie" try to give us? You mean we won't get into instant relationships when we have worked on ourselves and started to practice mass-dating? How disappointing. 8O



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12 Sep 2018, 9:06 am

Fnord wrote:
Goldie, you're wasting pixels. These people don't want advice. They seem to only want service -- a "Golden Path" to an instant relationship that includes all of the benefits and none of the responsibilities.


Just like how Sheldon got together with Amy on Big Bang Theory. Sheldon's friends used a dating site to find Amy for Sheldon.



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12 Sep 2018, 9:12 am

I will not chase, and I will not be chosen.



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12 Sep 2018, 12:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
No, I don't count you among them.


Good to know, thanks.

I could reply to the rest of your post, but the latest attempts I've made to have a productive discussion about anything on these forums have backfired spectacularly, so I guess shutting up is a better idea. I didn't mean to offend anyone; sorry to be so stupid.


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12 Sep 2018, 1:16 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
It's communication, and nothing I have read has been at the level I need. So I'm in the supermarket and there must be at least 100 men in there so the odds are at least a couple are going to be single and potentially interested in me; so in what way do they appear different from the others? Do not say the ones flirting because you will have missed out some stages and those are the stages I have problems with.


If I were one of them, I’d be potentially interested in you. As in, I’d know nothing about you, except for your looks, so unless you looked distinctly unattractive or hostile, approaching you would be at least as good a shot at breaking out of my social, romantic and sexual isolation as any other. I wish there were a magical way to let each other know exactly what we want, and to assure each other they’re not going to be forced or pressured into anything they don’t want—but mostly that I won’t force or pressure you into anything, I suppose. Since there’s no such thing, I wouldn’t make the slightest move, because as far as I know, it’d be harassment. I’ve read many texts by women saying they don’t go to <insert place here> to be approached. They never say they go anywhere to be approached, so the right thing to do seems to be to leave them alone, always.

As it happens, since I’ve met you here, I don’t know what you look like and do know a tiny bit of other things; namely, that you’re a writer, that you don’t like seeing anyone’s feet and that you have a very sensitive neck and seem to be very sensitive overall. Your sensitivity could prove a challenge, but it may still be worthwhile if it can be overcome to reach a fruitful and trusty connection with you—to someone who will actually meet you in real life and is good enough for you, that is.

Thanks for addressing my question. I have been suspecting that it is difficult for men to approach women in

situations like this for a while. I believe there is and possible always has been a precursor to approaches made

to a stranger anyway. I bet it's eye contact, unfortunately I struggle with this unless there is a reason for

interaction, so I would be fine with someone who approached and spoke to me, but I can't do eye contact

without that. It's impossible to get NT's to explain this bit properly because I don't think they are aware of how

much they do this sort of nonverbal communication, they do it so automatically.



I think I'm sensitive over some things but not others. Ha, you remembered the feet :D They should be covered;

I don't fantisize about chopping everyone's off or anything like that :D



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12 Sep 2018, 1:56 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
Thanks for addressing my question. I have been suspecting that it is difficult for men to approach women in

situations like this for a while. I believe there is and possible always has been a precursor to approaches made

to a stranger anyway. I bet it's eye contact, unfortunately I struggle with this unless there is a reason for

interaction, so I would be fine with someone who approached and spoke to me, but I can't do eye contact

without that. It's impossible to get NT's to explain this bit properly because I don't think they are aware of how

much they do this sort of nonverbal communication, they do it so automatically.


I'm quite sure that's true. It is eye contact. Occasionally some men will approach stranger women without the women hinting interest, but at least where I live that's not very common (unless if they're drunk).
This eye contact thing is part of the reason why some autistic men here would not realize it if a woman showed interest in them and would either not approach women or approach them at random and get rather unfriendly reactions. It is also part of the reason why some may not understand that autistic women also have a disadvantage compared to NTs when it comes to dating and not just autistic men. Relatively few men initiate if the woman doesn't give them a signal that he has a chance. The women who don't know that or can't do that don't get a lot of male attention.

I do not know how well this would work in grocery stores or other places where people meet completely at random but usually don't interact.
A few years ago I could get some guys to approach me by eye contact and smiling with whom I had never interacted before, but those were fellow university students which may be slightly different than doing it on the streets or a grocers store. It worked surprisingly well but I stopped doing it because as soon as we actually interacted I messed up badly and I think I may have confused two guys a lot and maybe hurt their self esteem.
I also think, since this doesn't come naturally to me, I may actually have done the smiling and eye contact thing in a more obvious way than an NT woman would but if I did it wrongly the guys didn't mind. What they probably did mind was that I completely failed at how I should have reacted afterwards.
What I basically did was just watching them a lot, but without staring, but averting my gaze when they looked into my direction - without much delay but not hastily - and just smiling in a - hopefully - friendly but not exaggerated way when our eyes met.
Usually those were guys who were in the same place as me due to circumstances but there were many people and most would not interact with each other. They didn't approach me immediately but after I kept doing the eye contact and smiling thing for maybe 1/2 hour or 1 hour (not constantly because I was at those places for a reason and semi-busy doing something else).
But basically I don't think that there's any exact rule how this is done. It just needs to be obvious that she's interested, preferably without being extremely socially awkward, and if he considers her attractive enough, is single or unfaithful and not too shy he'll approach her.



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12 Sep 2018, 10:37 pm

I think this thread also ignores that some people have medical problems we cannot solve with a specific diet.


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13 Sep 2018, 12:32 am

Now that I'm halfway through my third decade on the planet, I've come to realize that some people actually enjoy being miserable just like how some people love to be sick. It's part of their identity.

If they request it, I give the best advice I can, and they can either take it or leave it. I refuse to be someone's emotional tampon for endless complaining. I couldn't care less if anyone actually follows my advice.

My life sucks enough that I don't need other people's crap added on top.


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13 Sep 2018, 1:06 am

8O That's absurd. Physiology is not sll down to habits.


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13 Sep 2018, 1:51 am

NorthWind wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
Thanks for addressing my question. I have been suspecting that it is difficult for men to approach women in

situations like this for a while. I believe there is and possible always has been a precursor to approaches made

to a stranger anyway. I bet it's eye contact, unfortunately I struggle with this unless there is a reason for

interaction, so I would be fine with someone who approached and spoke to me, but I can't do eye contact

without that. It's impossible to get NT's to explain this bit properly because I don't think they are aware of how

much they do this sort of nonverbal communication, they do it so automatically.


I'm quite sure that's true. It is eye contact. Occasionally some men will approach stranger women without the women hinting interest, but at least where I live that's not very common (unless if they're drunk).
This eye contact thing is part of the reason why some autistic men here would not realize it if a woman showed interest in them and would either not approach women or approach them at random and get rather unfriendly reactions. It is also part of the reason why some may not understand that autistic women also have a disadvantage compared to NTs when it comes to dating and not just autistic men. Relatively few men initiate if the woman doesn't give them a signal that he has a chance. The women who don't know that or can't do that don't get a lot of male attention.

I do not know how well this would work in grocery stores or other places where people meet completely at random but usually don't interact.
A few years ago I could get some guys to approach me by eye contact and smiling with whom I had never interacted before, but those were fellow university students which may be slightly different than doing it on the streets or a grocers store. It worked surprisingly well but I stopped doing it because as soon as we actually interacted I messed up badly and I think I may have confused two guys a lot and maybe hurt their self esteem.
I also think, since this doesn't come naturally to me, I may actually have done the smiling and eye contact thing in a more obvious way than an NT woman would but if I did it wrongly the guys didn't mind. What they probably did mind was that I completely failed at how I should have reacted afterwards.
What I basically did was just watching them a lot, but without staring, but averting my gaze when they looked into my direction - without much delay but not hastily - and just smiling in a - hopefully - friendly but not exaggerated way when our eyes met.
Usually those were guys who were in the same place as me due to circumstances but there were many people and most would not interact with each other. They didn't approach me immediately but after I kept doing the eye contact and smiling thing for maybe 1/2 hour or 1 hour (not constantly because I was at those places for a reason and semi-busy doing something else).
But basically I don't think that there's any exact rule how this is done. It just needs to be obvious that she's interested, preferably without being extremely socially awkward, and if he considers her attractive enough, is single or unfaithful and not too shy he'll approach her.

Thank you for explaining it step by step, I am going to try this. I will practice on my customers at work first, I'm

a shop assistant.



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13 Sep 2018, 7:11 am

fluffysaurus wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
Thanks for addressing my question. I have been suspecting that it is difficult for men to approach women in

situations like this for a while. I believe there is and possible always has been a precursor to approaches made

to a stranger anyway. I bet it's eye contact, unfortunately I struggle with this unless there is a reason for

interaction, so I would be fine with someone who approached and spoke to me, but I can't do eye contact

without that. It's impossible to get NT's to explain this bit properly because I don't think they are aware of how

much they do this sort of nonverbal communication, they do it so automatically.


I'm quite sure that's true. It is eye contact. Occasionally some men will approach stranger women without the women hinting interest, but at least where I live that's not very common (unless if they're drunk).
This eye contact thing is part of the reason why some autistic men here would not realize it if a woman showed interest in them and would either not approach women or approach them at random and get rather unfriendly reactions. It is also part of the reason why some may not understand that autistic women also have a disadvantage compared to NTs when it comes to dating and not just autistic men. Relatively few men initiate if the woman doesn't give them a signal that he has a chance. The women who don't know that or can't do that don't get a lot of male attention.

I do not know how well this would work in grocery stores or other places where people meet completely at random but usually don't interact.
A few years ago I could get some guys to approach me by eye contact and smiling with whom I had never interacted before, but those were fellow university students which may be slightly different than doing it on the streets or a grocers store. It worked surprisingly well but I stopped doing it because as soon as we actually interacted I messed up badly and I think I may have confused two guys a lot and maybe hurt their self esteem.
I also think, since this doesn't come naturally to me, I may actually have done the smiling and eye contact thing in a more obvious way than an NT woman would but if I did it wrongly the guys didn't mind. What they probably did mind was that I completely failed at how I should have reacted afterwards.
What I basically did was just watching them a lot, but without staring, but averting my gaze when they looked into my direction - without much delay but not hastily - and just smiling in a - hopefully - friendly but not exaggerated way when our eyes met.
Usually those were guys who were in the same place as me due to circumstances but there were many people and most would not interact with each other. They didn't approach me immediately but after I kept doing the eye contact and smiling thing for maybe 1/2 hour or 1 hour (not constantly because I was at those places for a reason and semi-busy doing something else).
But basically I don't think that there's any exact rule how this is done. It just needs to be obvious that she's interested, preferably without being extremely socially awkward, and if he considers her attractive enough, is single or unfaithful and not too shy he'll approach her.

Thank you for explaining it step by step, I am going to try this. I will practice on my customers at work first, I'm

a shop assistant.


I think that both NDs and NTs use eye contact to exchange possible interest, but it's done in different ways. Smiling is only part of how NTs do it, so that can be used to limit targets (or detect compatible targets for guys). I think that NTs use shorter glances, and that NDs prefer to "stare" more, and so that's also something to consider.

Because of that, if you decide to practice on customers, you are likely to mostly see the NT variant, and by training on them, you will primarily learn how to get attention from NT guys.



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14 Sep 2018, 1:54 am

rdos wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
fluffysaurus wrote:
Thanks for addressing my question. I have been suspecting that it is difficult for men to approach women in

situations like this for a while. I believe there is and possible always has been a precursor to approaches made

to a stranger anyway. I bet it's eye contact, unfortunately I struggle with this unless there is a reason for

interaction, so I would be fine with someone who approached and spoke to me, but I can't do eye contact

without that. It's impossible to get NT's to explain this bit properly because I don't think they are aware of how

much they do this sort of nonverbal communication, they do it so automatically.


I'm quite sure that's true. It is eye contact. Occasionally some men will approach stranger women without the women hinting interest, but at least where I live that's not very common (unless if they're drunk).
This eye contact thing is part of the reason why some autistic men here would not realize it if a woman showed interest in them and would either not approach women or approach them at random and get rather unfriendly reactions. It is also part of the reason why some may not understand that autistic women also have a disadvantage compared to NTs when it comes to dating and not just autistic men. Relatively few men initiate if the woman doesn't give them a signal that he has a chance. The women who don't know that or can't do that don't get a lot of male attention.

I do not know how well this would work in grocery stores or other places where people meet completely at random but usually don't interact.
A few years ago I could get some guys to approach me by eye contact and smiling with whom I had never interacted before, but those were fellow university students which may be slightly different than doing it on the streets or a grocers store. It worked surprisingly well but I stopped doing it because as soon as we actually interacted I messed up badly and I think I may have confused two guys a lot and maybe hurt their self esteem.
I also think, since this doesn't come naturally to me, I may actually have done the smiling and eye contact thing in a more obvious way than an NT woman would but if I did it wrongly the guys didn't mind. What they probably did mind was that I completely failed at how I should have reacted afterwards.
What I basically did was just watching them a lot, but without staring, but averting my gaze when they looked into my direction - without much delay but not hastily - and just smiling in a - hopefully - friendly but not exaggerated way when our eyes met.
Usually those were guys who were in the same place as me due to circumstances but there were many people and most would not interact with each other. They didn't approach me immediately but after I kept doing the eye contact and smiling thing for maybe 1/2 hour or 1 hour (not constantly because I was at those places for a reason and semi-busy doing something else).
But basically I don't think that there's any exact rule how this is done. It just needs to be obvious that she's interested, preferably without being extremely socially awkward, and if he considers her attractive enough, is single or unfaithful and not too shy he'll approach her.

Thank you for explaining it step by step, I am going to try this. I will practice on my customers at work first, I'm

a shop assistant.


I think that both NDs and NTs use eye contact to exchange possible interest, but it's done in different ways. Smiling is only part of how NTs do it, so that can be used to limit targets (or detect compatible targets for guys). I think that NTs use shorter glances, and that NDs prefer to "stare" more, and so that's also something to consider.

Because of that, if you decide to practice on customers, you are likely to mostly see the NT variant, and by training on them, you will primarily learn how to get attention from NT guys.

I will keep this in mind however, I live in a small rural town and know of no ND males remotely in my age group.