Lady at work keeps interrogating me 0.o

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Spiderpig
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11 Sep 2018, 5:25 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you are willfully misunderstanding me just so you can troll me.


Think whatever you like. I was trying to have a friendly discussion with you about things I find interesting. If you insist on seeing me as an enemy, too bad.

hurtloam wrote:
I say this because you refuse to acknowledge or listen to how I feel. Your responses are, "yeah but he feels x so what you feel as a woman isn't important".


I usually avoid talking about more than one thing at a time, because it’s a sure way to muddy the conversation into uselessness. We were talking about your feelings about his erection. You said something about that and I didn’t quite understand it, so I asked you some questions. I thought you were interested in explaining that, and I was interested in reading about it. Now, all of a sudden, you get mad at me for not being talking about something else, and on top of that, you put words in my mouth. I don’t like repeating myself, and I never said “what you feel as a woman isn’t important”. That’s not the kind of conversation I’m interested in.

hurtloam wrote:
Also the overly sensual description of the reaction to the woman in armour makes me think you're just deliberately trolling.


Too bad. I was trying to enlighten you a little about your attempts to be less sexy at work. I tried to make it easier for you to grasp what that situation feels like as a man. I thought it could be helpful, since you can’t feel that as a woman. If you decide to conclude instead that I’m trolling you, well, too bad.

hurtloam wrote:
Can you see how that's akin to a heavy breathing phone call?


I’m not sure what you mean by that.

hurtloam wrote:
I'm done now. If you still don't get it I don't think I can add any more. We are going round in circles. Jist because you find something enjoyable doesnt mean that its ok. The other party has feelings too.


Just because you insist on twisting my words doesn’t mean I said anything other than what I actually said. Goodbye.


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11 Sep 2018, 6:41 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
In my late teens travelling around Asia I had an onslaught of masturbating men following me (literally, it happened at least 5 times). It actually continued once I got back to Europe, on buses everywhere.... Nothing I did seemed to stop this wave of male attention. Once, I lived in Cairo I had adopted a wholly different attitude. A fast pace, lack of eye contact, evasive body movements, I had it sorted, I got very little harassment. I made a conscious decision to desexualise myself in public space.

I interviewed a civil rights leader who also happened to be a feminist niquab wearing young woman. We spoke about an example of whether to wear niquab in front of a blind man. We agreed that wearing the niquab has very little to do with 'who' sees you but how you carry yourself.


You’re incredibly brave. Or maybe you were clueless at the beginning (not as clueless as I’d have been, though), but proved to be incredibly brave in the end anyway.


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Spiderpig
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11 Sep 2018, 6:43 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
Recently I was buying wood and the salesman made an error in the order and made a comment that he found my beauty distracting. It really bothered me. I am nearly 40, wear no make up and hardly put any effort into my appearance. It took me a while to figure out why it bothered me so but then I concluded it was because I didn't understand what he wanted from me with that comment and that made me uncomfortable.


If people have a way to make you uncomfortable for their mistakes, they’ll often use it. Apparently, there are universal ways for men to make women uncomfortable. I tend to be oblivious to them, because I usually forget life is a game of chess, and also tend to think that the woman’s desirability to me confers her a moral high ground I can’t take away by abusing her.

elsapelsa wrote:
I have only had male friends since my late teens and one female friend. I have shared beds with my male friends just as if they were female. It has never bothered me if they were attracted to me. We just knew where we stood and on the few occasions where lines got blurry I just redrew the line. No big deal. I know for a fact (as they often discuss it) that one of my current best friends was in love with me at one point and that my female friend was too. That doesn't bother me. I don't see why it should. The line between great friendships and love is sometimes very hard to draw. People get confused.

But saying that I feel entirely confident and safe in all my male friends company. My best friend who I have recently reconnected with suggested next time we meet up (we live far away but travel and meet in the middle) we stay the night. Is that a threat to his or my marriage in any way? Is there anything else attached to that besides wanting to get as much time together as possible? No! Of course not. We are friends, and will always be friends, it is irrelevant whether he is attracted to me or not.


I wish everyone agreed to make things that easy. I guess most people have such inborn social skills that they get bored if things aren’t made intentionally hard :twisted:


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Spiderpig
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11 Sep 2018, 7:22 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
I remember one time when me and my best friend at the time were squished into a single dorm bed and he was tickling me and we were messing about and he started biting my neck. When I told him to stop he said "don't you like it?" and I said " that's not the problem, I like it too much" he teased me about it after but it was just not a line I was willing to cross with him.


I think that’d be pretty frustrating to me. Nowadays, I’ve kind of learned to shut up and not ask people why (it wasn’t easy, because I always needed to be ready to explain to my parents, and, by extension, to anyone, why I did or did not do, think or feel anything), but a few years ago, I’d probably make a big nuisance of myself asking you why you don’t want to do something with me that you like too much. Today, I’d still want to know the answer, but I’d silently accept I won’t get it and lose interest in being so close to you.


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11 Sep 2018, 7:35 pm

blackicmenace wrote:
I am so sorry you were harassed and disrespected in this manner elsapelsa. It is unacceptable behavior and I am always ashamed of my gender when I hear stories like your own. Some people seem to have a total disregard for acting civil around others, lacking any basic common respect that everyone is entitled to.


You know, Second and Third World. Societies in a state closer to the state of nature. Our species’s state of nature isn’t pretty. If you want equality, personal freedom and all those nice and unnatural things, your best bet is to help the whole world develop. Getting angry with those less fortunate than you when it comes to their birth place won’t solve anything.


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11 Sep 2018, 7:47 pm

sly279 wrote:
I don’t allow myself to fantasize about women besides desire To be with them romantically.
I feel it’s disrespectful to do so.
Only a few times have I failed not to do so and feel guilty I did :(

I go home and fantasize to women who post their pictures and like men thinking of them.
That way I’m being respectful.
I don’t fantasize about romantic partners until I’ve been able to ask them if it’s ok.


Other people’s bodies are theirs; your head is yours. The only disrespectful thing here would be for others to try to dictate what you can and what you cannot fantasize about. Don’t let them.

If a woman can’t handle the fact that I’d like to have sex with her, she’s not my friend.


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11 Sep 2018, 8:19 pm

AnneOleson wrote:
Sorry, I did read that at the time but forgot to go back and answer you. I only have a son, no daughters. No sisters either, just older brothers. I always tried to remember what my life was like at the same age as my son. I encouraged him to try and have a group of friends. I never did and when my one friend was away I couldn’t function. I didn’t want that for him. I was a single parent and found it a bit awkward talking about different aspects of sex with him, but I tried. I expected that he would want to experiment as a teen and made sure he took responsibility for birth control. I would have done the same with a daughter I think. I’m pretty open minded, but still kind of conservative. I never would have approved of teenaged “sleepovers “.


Thanks. I’m curious about that, because I think I’ve always been powerless, for one reason or another, to do anything to experience those parts of life. My parents didn’t take any specific measures to stop me; my social isolation, and probably my unpopularity and my growing immaturity compared with my peers, were enough. That’s why it makes me very anxious that most parents seem to agree that the longer those experiences are put off, the better, unconditionally, and many apparently strive, in fact, to prevent their children from getting the very experiences that helped them mature.

AnneOleson wrote:
And sorry to ask you such a personal question as above, but I’ve not (knowingly) encountered someone with such intense thoughts.


Don’t worry. I think the only intense thing is that I expressed them verbally. People usually freak out when I verbalize things they otherwise deem normal.

AnneOleson wrote:
Are you saying that you want to do that to every woman you meet, except the physically hideous ones?


Mostly yes. I like women a lot; can you tell? :heart: But bear in mind that’s what I want before I know anything about them. If they look mean, I discard those thoughts immediately. Same if I know they’re in a relationship. Same if I actually interact with them in any way and it turns out we don’t get along; etc.

Barring those obstacles, women still look like magical creatures to me, and I don’t see any reason to force myself to see them otherwise.


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Spiderpig
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11 Sep 2018, 8:29 pm

AnneOleson wrote:
But the meeting of our personalities (souls?) was the primary relationship. Friendship. And at times I’ve had “friends with benefits “. Friends first, and friends when it ended.


That’s what I was getting at before. As long as neither of you is in a committed relationship with anyone else, why can’t the terms of the friendship be simply “We do whatever we both want, period”?


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Last edited by Spiderpig on 11 Sep 2018, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Sep 2018, 8:32 pm

Brevity is dead


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The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Sep 2018, 3:27 am

Quote:
elsapelsa wrote:
In my late teens travelling around Asia I had an onslaught of masturbating men following me (literally, it happened at least 5 times). It actually continued once I got back to Europe, on buses everywhere.... Nothing I did seemed to stop this wave of male attention. Once, I lived in Cairo I had adopted a wholly different attitude. A fast pace, lack of eye contact, evasive body movements, I had it sorted, I got very little harassment. I made a conscious decision to desexualise myself in public space.

I interviewed a civil rights leader who also happened to be a feminist niquab wearing young woman. We spoke about an example of whether to wear niquab in front of a blind man. We agreed that wearing the niquab has very little to do with 'who' sees you but how you carry yourself.


Egypt is one of the worst places in the world when it comes to sexual harassment, and their government don't seem to even admit the problem.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/ ... 50361.html

She's out now btw.



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Sep 2018, 3:40 am

I don't get the erection in public whole thing, but maybe I am not high in testosterone enough - I thought only young adults have this ability? At my current age I don't get erection unless I am doing something sexual with someone or deeply fantasizing in the right setting, or morning wood - otherwise I don't get aroused just visually ie. by just seeing an attractive girl in public; yes, I will think she is attractive but not to the point of getting an unwanted erection.



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12 Sep 2018, 3:47 am

hurtloam wrote:
Yes I can control it. I can stop the process and go and do something else. I turn my mind to other thoughts. Sorry it took a while to work out that's what you were asking. I thought that everyone could do that. :scratch: The idea of not being able to stop the process never occurred to me.


I'd like to comment on this, just in case you might get the impression that all men are the way one person represents himself here:

I don't know about "everybody", but yes, men can do that too. Erections, either involuntary or triggered by sexual thoughts go away if you deliberately concentrate your mind on other things. It has nothing to do with age or level or "horniness" - I'm just teaching my teenage son these days how to avoid embarrassing himself at the pool and generally in public. Most men will know what I'm talking about.

Also, men (with some exceptions it seems) don't automatically get erections or slip into detailed sexual fantasies when they hug a female friend, even an attractive one.

While men are sexual beings and can be very visual, we also have self control and the ability to relate and interact with (attractive) women in a non-sexual way. And plenty of us manage to have meaningful friendships or professional relationships with women without lusting over them.


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12 Sep 2018, 6:47 am

Strawman away :roll:


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12 Sep 2018, 6:54 am

Congratulations. You defeated the Metastrawman.


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Spiderpig
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12 Sep 2018, 11:02 am

What do you mean?


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elsapelsa
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12 Sep 2018, 11:55 am

Spiderpig wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
I remember one time when me and my best friend at the time were squished into a single dorm bed and he was tickling me and we were messing about and he started biting my neck. When I told him to stop he said "don't you like it?" and I said " that's not the problem, I like it too much" he teased me about it after but it was just not a line I was willing to cross with him.


I think that’d be pretty frustrating to me. Nowadays, I’ve kind of learned to shut up and not ask people why (it wasn’t easy, because I always needed to be ready to explain to my parents, and, by extension, to anyone, why I did or did not do, think or feel anything), but a few years ago, I’d probably make a big nuisance of myself asking you why you don’t want to do something with me that you like too much. Today, I’d still want to know the answer, but I’d silently accept I won’t get it and lose interest in being so close to you.


It was fairly frustrating but there was a pretty good rationale in my head. I wasn't brave enough to be in a relationship with him. I didn't like myself enough or care well enough for myself back then. I was with someone else instead. Someone I was avoiding by hiding in my best friend's bedroom all night every night. If we would have been together it would have been epic and very tumultuous and I just wasn't ready for that.


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Last edited by elsapelsa on 12 Sep 2018, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.