Being a naturally shy, whimpy, awkward unmanly guy

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Chronos
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14 Oct 2018, 4:45 am

Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.



hurtloam
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14 Oct 2018, 7:31 am

Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


Yes. It seems that those here with the worst issues are those with no determination or strong goals or values. Wishy washy and defeatist is not attractive.



Piobaire
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14 Oct 2018, 9:41 am

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Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.


Based upon what you describe, I think it much more likely that the "qualities" women saw in you were misplaced aggression towards loved ones, poor impulse control, an adolescent conflation of masculinity with aggression and violence, and little insight into your behavior; all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse. Anyone seeing these traits in a potential mate should run like the wind.

If I were you, I'd seek out professional help with your anger management and impulse control issues.



Citymale
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14 Oct 2018, 9:08 pm

Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.


Based upon what you describe, I think it much more likely that the "qualities" women saw in you were misplaced aggression towards loved ones, poor impulse control, an adolescent conflation of masculinity with aggression and violence, and little insight into your behavior; all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse. Anyone seeing these traits in a potential mate should run like the wind.

If I were you, I'd seek out professional help with your anger management and impulse control issues.


Professional help is professional in name only. I blank out and CANNOT remember or even think of what happened to me during the week and what my experiences and ruminations were. It literally takes me an hour of circumventing the topic (I hate revealing things about myself) and talking in abstract generalities about myself not being specific and I end up simply not communicating to my therapist like I would in the forum or with my best friend cousin over the phone.

I don’t have all the issues you describe.

I present a strong silent type demeanor, while on the inside I am nervous and suffering and unsure.

My true thoughts and reactions would freak out a therapist. I try to blend in kind of because I feel like I am in front of a doctor figure and have to be presentable. I also want to avoid being vulnerable and open since it’s very scary and hurts.

I can use logic and analyze and think about things, but I am too embarrassed and vulnerable and can’t remwmber to just show my true experiences and questions which make me wander.



Citymale
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14 Oct 2018, 9:14 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
You're the type of man that I'm attracted to. I'd rather have a guy like you than the traditional type of guy.


Indeed, gays donkind I’d find me attractive. But even though I am not a traditionally masculine guy, and feel whimpy like a woman might, I am not attracted to men.



Citymale
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14 Oct 2018, 9:16 pm

Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


How can I have boundaries if I am confused socially and emotionally? I wouldn’t know how to live together or what to expect dating a woman since my life would be out of balance from dating and I would not be ble to be open that I am far below normal in many respects.



Chronos
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14 Oct 2018, 9:39 pm

Citymale wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


How can I have boundaries if I am confused socially and emotionally? I wouldn’t know how to live together or what to expect dating a woman since my life would be out of balance from dating and I would not be ble to be open that I am far below normal in many respects.


I am speaking of boundaries in general.



sly279
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15 Oct 2018, 2:38 am

hurtloam wrote:
If you live in a city a car is not necessary. Public transport is usually good enough to get around. I'm an odd one living in a city with a car. Most of my friends don't have one and get the bus everywhere. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a city guy who didn't have a car.

Living further out it becomes more inconvenient not to have a car. It's a hassle to meet up because buses are not so regular. In all my adult life I've always had a car. Not always good cars, but they got me from A-B. I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Different cultures, we mass produced cars so everyone could afford them. Since then the idea is every last person should own a car or two. If you don’t you're a loser.
Why else would so many women who have a car require a man who has a car?



sly279
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15 Oct 2018, 2:44 am

hurtloam wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


Yes. It seems that those here with the worst issues are those with no determination or strong goals or values. Wishy washy and defeatist is not attractive.


Ouch, guess only one type of man is attractive then, so much for all types. Not every is ambitious. Why’s everyone have to be ambitious and goal oriented



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Oct 2018, 5:25 am

See guys? sly and hurtloam are not compatible at all.

So stop trying to match them.



314pe
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15 Oct 2018, 6:40 am

hurtloam wrote:
I do admit that a guy in a small town without a car may make me wonder, if I can manage to maintain a car, why can't he?

Maybe it's less about a car itself and more about some other qualities and a car is just an indicator?
To own a car you need at least some coordination to drive it, responsibility to maintain it, financial skills to afford the running costs, etc.



Piobaire
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15 Oct 2018, 7:33 am

Citymale wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.


Based upon what you describe, I think it much more likely that the "qualities" women saw in you were misplaced aggression towards loved ones, poor impulse control, an adolescent conflation of masculinity with aggression and violence, and little insight into your behavior; all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse. Anyone seeing these traits in a potential mate should run like the wind.

If I were you, I'd seek out professional help with your anger management and impulse control issues.




I don’t have all the issues you describe.

I present a strong silent type demeanor, while on the inside I am nervous and suffering and unsure.


I think that it's highly probable that, in the event you met someone and moved in together, you would quickly re-create the family dynamic you just described and start directing an escalating pattern of "internal aggression" towards your mate. I think that it's also highly probable that since you define your insecurities as a lack of aggression, this "internal aggression" would rapidly escalate to domestic violence. You are not unique; this is generally how abusers tick.

What you describe is a learned behavior, and what has been learned can be un-learned and behaviors which are more likely to meet the needs of yourself and others can be learned in their place. There is hope, but you've got a lot of work to do to lay the groundwork of successful relationships first. Rather than worrying about finding a girlfriend, I'd suggest working on your own personal growth and developing the skillsets which are necessary for cultivating stable and healthy relationships. You've already identified the when, why, and how of how you sabotage your own therapy; now it's up to you to do something about it.



Citymale
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15 Oct 2018, 12:41 pm

Piobaire wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.


Based upon what you describe, I think it much more likely that the "qualities" women saw in you were misplaced aggression towards loved ones, poor impulse control, an adolescent conflation of masculinity with aggression and violence, and little insight into your behavior; all the hallmarks of an abusive spouse. Anyone seeing these traits in a potential mate should run like the wind.

If I were you, I'd seek out professional help with your anger management and impulse control issues.




I don’t have all the issues you describe.

I present a strong silent type demeanor, while on the inside I am nervous and suffering and unsure.


I think that it's highly probable that, in the event you met someone and moved in together, you would quickly re-create the family dynamic you just described and start directing an escalating pattern of "internal aggression" towards your mate. I think that it's also highly probable that since you define your insecurities as a lack of aggression, this "internal aggression" would rapidly escalate to domestic violence. You are not unique; this is generally how abusers tick.

What you describe is a learned behavior, and what has been learned can be un-learned and behaviors which are more likely to meet the needs of yourself and others can be learned in their place. There is hope, but you've got a lot of work to do to lay the groundwork of successful relationships first. Rather than worrying about finding a girlfriend, I'd suggest working on your own personal growth and developing the skillsets which are necessary for cultivating stable and healthy relationships. You've already identified the when, why, and how of how you sabotage your own therapy; now it's up to you to do something about it.


I may have learned the aggressive behavior from my grandmother who tried to discipline and motivate and protect everyone by getting angry at them and mother who kept dad in line by being mean to him and never talking normally with him.

But I may also just be a s**t person who mistreats his family and does not have patience



hurtloam
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15 Oct 2018, 12:55 pm

sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Citymale wrote:
Is there any hope for a guy who naturally is - shy, whimpy, lack aggression toward people who hurt me or my partner, cannot stand up for myself, not socially savvy or aggressive, but tend to have internal aggression toward my own family like even my mom.

Women found me attractive and mysterious, but were turned off once they saw these qualities.

Basically, I am realizing that I am naturally a weak man and feel a lack of confidence about becoming a strong man.


My grandfather was a "strong man". He was not big or vengeful or physically aggressive. He did not get in to physical altercations, but he had self respect, respect for others, and had values and principals he believed in and stood by.

You do not need to be the epitome of stereotyped masculinity. Almost no man is. You just need to be a decent person with some values and principals and boundaries you are willing to defend and that really goes for both men and women.


Yes. It seems that those here with the worst issues are those with no determination or strong goals or values. Wishy washy and defeatist is not attractive.


Ouch, guess only one type of man is attractive then, so much for all types. Not every is ambitious. Why’s everyone have to be ambitious and goal oriented


Goals don't always have to be under the category of consumerism and corporate America. I love the outdoors. So my goals are small. I plan trips to nice places and explore them. I like guy who also likes the outdoors. His goals are a bit bigger. He wants to climb mountains. He does... I don't go with him. I'm not that fit.

I have no idea what his career goals are and I don't care. My only career goal is to have a job that doesn't make me want to curl up in a ball and hide. I've been through about 20 jobs to find this one that I feel comfortable in. I kept on moving till I got what I wanted.



hurtloam
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15 Oct 2018, 1:00 pm

Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.



Citymale
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15 Oct 2018, 1:31 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Hey citymale, you say you have learned aggressive behaviour. I hear you. My family have a tendency towards communicating with sarcasm, amongst other darker things.

I realised that there was a bad dynamic in my family, so I've been reading up on psychology and communication for years, gleaning what I can to improve my attitude and learning how to react to my family in a way that will grease the wheels.

It can be done. We still have ups and downs, but things are a lot better.


I think I am just not a good person to be with as a friend, companion or family member as a result of not understanding, not being naturally smart in that way and having bad habits and behaviors.