More Thought on Incels.
Yes, being part of a community that doesn't encourage self improvement is detrimental to oneself. That is a very valid point.
I've had "friends" who have criticised me for job hopping and moving house too often because I need to "settle to be happy". Well guess what? I enjoy having a change of scenery and I've moved around enough to know what I like and what I want and I've now found my niche.
If I had stayed in the same place all my life like they have I wouldn't be happy.
You can't let other people drag you down just because they don't want to change or to seek out new opportunities.
Don't let other people stifle you.
Base reality just can't compete with sensationalist violence.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
This is how incels behave. When one of them starts showing independent thought (i.e., saying nice things about women), the others try to drag him back down to their level. Pretty soon, they are all back to bad-mouthing the very women that they wish they could have sex with.
Pathetic, eh?
You have thoroughly embarrassed all guys, everywhere, by allocating mental energy towards this subject.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
This is how incels behave. When one of them starts showing independent thought (i.e., saying nice things about women), the others try to drag him back down to their level. Pretty soon, they are all back to bad-mouthing the very women that they wish they could have sex with.
Pathetic, eh?
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
Or, as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".
Well they're demonstrably 100% shameless so that just leaves the rest of us feeling lower.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
I prefer not to waste time thinking about incels besides laughing at them, and then moving on.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
puzzledoll
Snowy Owl
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 167
Location: the mountains by the ocean
I actually appreciated how clearly laid out the OP was. I have two boys and I have made sure to teach them to avoid the incel community and red pillers like the plague. The thing is that I'm only one mom and there are a TON of boys out there. I know boys (and men) on the spectrum often struggle finding relationships (and are often naive and trusting) and groups like these can have an alluring draw and a feeling of community that might be lacking elsewhere. The more awareness is raised about the toxicity of these groups the better, at least in my opinion. I'd rather see the topic rehashed than have people run into these groups unaware.
The whole incel idea that women are shallow and only care about looks is patently absurd. Men are much more actively conditioned by society to be fixated on looks. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
- Thucydides
I basically agree with Fnord's post at the start of this thread, at least regarding the online Incel community's wrong beliefs about women.
However, in the case of many autistic men, I don't believe that self-improvement plus changing their beliefs about women would be enough. Depending on how disabled the men are, they may face problems that can be solved only by a hopefully-forthcoming better-organized autistic community than now exists. As I wrote here, in the separate thread How did you start dating?:
A disproportionate number of autistics are unemployed. Have few or zero friends. Have unusual special interests. Have no $$.
Meltdown
These are systematic problems that can be addressed only as a community, not as individuals.
Solving the money problem, for all but a few of us, will require new models of work and employment. (I have some thoughts about this that I'll share later, when I have more time.)
The unusual special interests can be harnessed to help people make friends, at least within the community.
Those who have meltdowns would have fewer of them in a more autistic-friendly world. Yet another problem that can best be solved as a community.
Significantly more autistics (especially men) want them than have them. We need to figure out how the community can make this easier.
For those who don't want them, it's not a problem.
Fnord replied:
One person's bad attitude driving other people away? Change the one person's attitude, not the community standards of civil behavior. While there is such a thing a "Mercy Dating", no one is obligated to date a creep.
I replied:
Autistics, especially autistic men, have trouble finding relationships for many reasons, not all of which boil down to them having bad attitudes or being creeps.
Of course, insofar as they do have bad attitudes, they as individuals do need to change those attitudes too.
Fnord replied:
That old saw about leading horses to water applies to every one of them.
Copying this discussion here to avoid further de-railing of the other thread. I'll respond later.
_________________
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- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
Iv'e seen plenty of men who arne't attractive in the conventional sense have beautiful girlfriends/wives and no it's not always because they're rich.
- People say short guys can't get girls yet I know a guy who's 5 ft 2 and asian and his girlfriend is a cute blonde girl around his height.
- A couple in their early thirties used to regularly come to the gym that I go to and I deadlifted with them a couple of times. The girl was a tall blonde around 5 ft 8 with a cute face and nice body. The husband was roughly the same height, was fat with a beer belly, and didn't have the greatest looking face.
- I knew this girl in college who was easily a 10, was a cheerleader for the college football team, and was in a sorority. You'd think she would only date a typical "Chad" a 6 ft tall good looking white guy. Yet she's dating an average looking asian guy roughly her height.
So I don't think looks matter as much as you think they do. Obviously some girls will care, but these are the girls you don't want to be dating anyways.
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