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Mona Pereth
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21 Jun 2019, 4:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
marknis makes it hard for himself by dreaming of finding a "nerdy" girl...those types either don't date or are taken...

Actually, as far as I can tell, most nerdy women DO desire nerdy partners, whereas many nerdy men, apparently, do NOT particularly desire (and may even be turned off by) nerdy women. Although nerdy men in general may greatly outnumber nerdy women, it is quite possible that nerdy men who desire nerdy partners do not outnumber nerdy women who desire nerdy partners.

So, I think marknis is actually on the right track by wanting a nerdy girlfriend. Furthermore, although marknis's ideal girlfriend may be hard to find, intellectual companionship can be a very sound basis for a relationship once he does manage to find her.

But I do think he needs to focus on getting other aspects of his life together, including a steady job and a network of friends, before he is likely to find a woman (nerdy or otherwise) who will be interested in him.


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- Finally diagnosed with ASD in May 2019, after having suspected it for over ten years, and after having deeply explored the autism community for over one year while waiting for and obtaining diagnosis.
- In longterm relationship with boyfriend who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 2001.
- Long history of participation in various oddball subcultures.
- My "Getting to know each other" thread: Hello from NYC.


cyberdad
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21 Jun 2019, 6:26 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Where are you all meeting these people?

There’s certainly something in between traditional values and sleeping around with lots of different people.


But I wasn't sleeping with them? when I was in my late 20s and early to mid 30s I blossomed, partly because I began to get comfortable in my own skin so to speak(not so "anxsty" about what others thought about me) and found it easy to move around social circles and had kind of like a group of friends (much like the 90s TV series "Friends" but a larger group). Honestly best time I evert had although later I found the girls in the group (the Phoebes and Monicas) were sleeping with the other guys in the group and somehow I missed the boat and didn't realise till much later.

Anyway we all started drifting apart in our 30s (as you do) and some travelled some moved inter-state and I found myself on my own.



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21 Jun 2019, 6:32 pm

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The problem I have with women in this non-traditional mindset (and again don't take this personally) is that there isn't a need for loyalty or commitment on their side when you are first dating them. I remember hanging around with a group of single girls in my early 30s (part of a larger friendship group) and I was hoping that my friendship would make them want to date me but they were constantly dating other men.
I didn't really get it. Did you expect commitment from the first date?


Now looking back I was being naive but the thing is we men are always "horny" and so the frustration was strong (so I kinda know how Marknis feels now)

My expectations back then weren't realistic (I know that now) but even being proximal to all that activity was kind of groovy in a weird sought of way?



cyberdad
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21 Jun 2019, 6:40 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Actually, as far as I can tell, most nerdy women DO desire nerdy partners, whereas many nerdy men, apparently, do NOT particularly desire (and may even be turned off by) nerdy women. Although nerdy men in general may greatly outnumber nerdy women,


You kind off answered your own question....although what an individual male desires is very much based on individual taste. I certainly went through different phases in my teens, 20s and 30s
As a teen I wanted a big breasted girl (that was pretty much my criteria)
In my 20s I wanted Pheobe or Monica from the TV series Friends
By my 30s I was starting to broaden my horizons and became more realistic

An interesting experience I had is that I dated some nerdy girls and they were actually no different in what type of man attracted them to the more pretty/outgoing girls. Infact I do know that from the grapevine I learned that all these "nerdy girls" ended up with alpha "type" males who were sporty/professional types.

Dating is kind of more complex than our own personal experiences and human needs are actually more in common than we like to project/believe.



The Grand Inquisitor
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21 Jun 2019, 8:08 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
My point is not that everybody must have a great job, great body, great income, etc, to get a relationship. The point is that people with all the flaws I listed above in conjunction with each other are likely going to struggle finding a partner. You have to have qualities that are attractive enough to where at least some women think they could potentially consider you their best dating option to even get your foot in the door. Marknis, as he's indicated multiple times, can't even get a coffee date.

You were able to get into relationships, but Marknis can't. I don't accept that Marknis and virtually all of us in similar situations on the spectrum just so happen to simultaneously have horrendous luck with love and dating. There are observable patterns and parallels to be drawn that make much more sense than any other explanation. Maybe dating was different 20 or 30 years ago, I don't know, but considering that the ratio between women and men having sex within a single year used to be similar, but now it's come out that men are having sex at significantly lower annual rates and women are having sex at roughly the same annual rates, it stands to reason that some things have changed in the last 20 years.

What is your source of statistics on this matter?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade
Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.



shortfatbalduglyman
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21 Jun 2019, 9:15 pm

Your concept of "friendly" attract, repel, or neither



Autistics tend to have different unusual definition of "friendly".

For example, I hate "friendly" lil dipshits complimenting me

Judgmental



Twilightprincess
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21 Jun 2019, 9:33 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Your concept of "friendly" attract, repel, or neither



Autistics tend to have different unusual definition of "friendly".

For example, I hate "friendly" lil dipshits complimenting me

Judgmental


How would you like people to go about dating you (if you are interested in dating)?



cyberdad
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21 Jun 2019, 10:41 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
For example, I hate "friendly" lil dipshits complimenting me


Yeah I used be like this. Classic is when an attractive girl talks to you and says "oh cyberdad you have a lot going for you" and then she "friend zones" you when you ask her out on a date or comes up with some crap that she's seeing somebody (which you know isn't serious).



magz
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22 Jun 2019, 2:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
For example, I hate "friendly" lil dipshits complimenting me


Yeah I used be like this. Classic is when an attractive girl talks to you and says "oh cyberdad you have a lot going for you" and then she "friend zones" you when you ask her out on a date or comes up with some crap that she's seeing somebody (which you know isn't serious).

That's exactly why we (women) need to be extremely cautious when being nice to lonely guys.
Girls are encouraged to smile and compliment everyone but guys who have little contact with women easily misinterpret it and start feeding false hopes.


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cyberdad
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22 Jun 2019, 3:45 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
For example, I hate "friendly" lil dipshits complimenting me


Yeah I used be like this. Classic is when an attractive girl talks to you and says "oh cyberdad you have a lot going for you" and then she "friend zones" you when you ask her out on a date or comes up with some crap that she's seeing somebody (which you know isn't serious).

That's exactly why we (women) need to be extremely cautious when being nice to lonely guys.
Girls are encouraged to smile and compliment everyone but guys who have little contact with women easily misinterpret it and start feeding false hopes.


Yeah I get it...you don't want to lead them on or give them ambiguous signals...but I thought you ladies would also like to hear things from our perspective as well....



The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jun 2019, 1:43 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
My point is not that everybody must have a great job, great body, great income, etc, to get a relationship. The point is that people with all the flaws I listed above in conjunction with each other are likely going to struggle finding a partner. You have to have qualities that are attractive enough to where at least some women think they could potentially consider you their best dating option to even get your foot in the door. Marknis, as he's indicated multiple times, can't even get a coffee date.

You were able to get into relationships, but Marknis can't. I don't accept that Marknis and virtually all of us in similar situations on the spectrum just so happen to simultaneously have horrendous luck with love and dating. There are observable patterns and parallels to be drawn that make much more sense than any other explanation. Maybe dating was different 20 or 30 years ago, I don't know, but considering that the ratio between women and men having sex within a single year used to be similar, but now it's come out that men are having sex at significantly lower annual rates and women are having sex at roughly the same annual rates, it stands to reason that some things have changed in the last 20 years.

What is your source of statistics on this matter?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade
Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.




Image


But of course what I predict:

- WP women will deny the above, this is a given.
- The media is probably blaming it on gaming, and not on the elephant in the room: the rise of online dating (and "coincidentally" it boomed since 2008) which makes getting sex with super hot men very easy for average women, while making it very hard for average men to even get a date with an average woman.



Mona Pereth
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22 Jun 2019, 2:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
An interesting experience I had is that I dated some nerdy girls and they were actually no different in what type of man attracted them to the more pretty/outgoing girls. Infact I do know that from the grapevine I learned that all these "nerdy girls" ended up with alpha "type" males who were sporty/professional types.

That is strange, and utterly different from the women I've known over the years.

cyberdad wrote:
Dating is kind of more complex than our own personal experiences and human needs are actually more in common than we like to project/believe.

I really don't think this is a question of fundamental human needs. Women's sexuality tends to be more fluid than men's. See this review of the book Sexual Fluidity by Lisa Diamond.


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- Finally diagnosed with ASD in May 2019, after having suspected it for over ten years, and after having deeply explored the autism community for over one year while waiting for and obtaining diagnosis.
- In longterm relationship with boyfriend who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 2001.
- Long history of participation in various oddball subcultures.
- My "Getting to know each other" thread: Hello from NYC.


Twilightprincess
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22 Jun 2019, 2:13 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
My point is not that everybody must have a great job, great body, great income, etc, to get a relationship. The point is that people with all the flaws I listed above in conjunction with each other are likely going to struggle finding a partner. You have to have qualities that are attractive enough to where at least some women think they could potentially consider you their best dating option to even get your foot in the door. Marknis, as he's indicated multiple times, can't even get a coffee date.

You were able to get into relationships, but Marknis can't. I don't accept that Marknis and virtually all of us in similar situations on the spectrum just so happen to simultaneously have horrendous luck with love and dating. There are observable patterns and parallels to be drawn that make much more sense than any other explanation. Maybe dating was different 20 or 30 years ago, I don't know, but considering that the ratio between women and men having sex within a single year used to be similar, but now it's come out that men are having sex at significantly lower annual rates and women are having sex at roughly the same annual rates, it stands to reason that some things have changed in the last 20 years.

What is your source of statistics on this matter?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade
Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.




Image


But of course what I predict:

- WP women will deny the above, this is a given.
- The media is probably blaming it on gaming, and not on the elephant in the room: the rise of online dating (and "coincidentally" it boomed since 2008) which makes getting sex with super hot men very easy for average women, while making it very hard for average men to even get a date with an average woman.


We’re talking about a 10% difference here based on gender. It’s hardly the earth shattering difference you seem to be suggesting.

I’m hardly in a hurry to have sex with a super hot man. I’ve not tried online dating, either. More young people had sex in the past year than not.



The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Jun 2019, 2:32 pm

I predict stuff very well.



Mona Pereth
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22 Jun 2019, 2:41 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
But of course what I predict:

- WP women will deny the above, this is a given.
- The media is probably blaming it on gaming, and not on the elephant in the room: the rise of online dating (and "coincidentally" it boomed since 2008) which makes getting sex with super hot men very easy for average women, while making it very hard for average men to even get a date with an average woman.

Or perhaps more women are now having sex NOT with "super hot men" but with each other? As noted in my previous post, women's sexuality tends to be more fluid than men's. (See this review of the book Sexual Fluidity by Lisa Diamond.) And apparently there has been a trend toward more and more women identifying as lesbian or bisexual, such that lesbian and bisexual women now outnumber gay and bisexual men, whereas, decades ago, gay and bisexual men outnumbered lesbian and bisexual women.

See also Why Are So Many Girls Lesbian or Bisexual? Girls today are three times more likely than boys to be non-heterosexual. Why? by Leonard Sax M.D., Ph.D., in Psychology Today. In particular:

Quote:
Female sexuality is different from male sexuality. If a straight boy kissed another boy, perhaps to amuse some girls who might be watching, he would be unlikely to undergo a change in sexual orientation as a result. But, as Professor Roy Baumeister at Florida State University and others have shown, sexual attraction in many women seems to be more malleable (see note 3 below). If a teenage girl kisses another teenage girl, for whatever reason, and she finds that she likes it—then things can happen, and things can change. If a young woman finds her soulmate, and her soulmate happens to be female, then she may begin to experience feelings she's never felt before.

Especially if all the guys she knows are losers.

Which brings me to the second point I've encountered in my interviews with young people. Twenty years ago, when I opened my practice in a suburb of Washington DC, it was rare to find 14-year-old boys who were looking at pornography every day. Today it's common—in fact, it's becoming the norm. When I meet with a group of 14-year-old boys and I ask them, "how many of you guys subscribe to a porn site?", all hands go up. I don't believe them. But today, no boy wants to admit that he's the weirdo who doesn't look at online porn. Twenty years ago, hardcore pornography was tucked away in adult bookstores. Today any 14-year-old can access such photos online in seconds. Role models for young men, from pop singer John Mayer to the 2009 World Series MVP Hideki Matsui, talk openly about their collections of porn (see note 4, below).

Is there any connection between these two trends—between the rise in the number of young women who self-identify as lesbian or bisexual and the increasing normalization and acceptance of pornography in the lives of young men? Maybe there is. A young woman told me how her boyfriend several years ago suggested that she shave her pubic hair so that she might more closely resemble the porn stars who were this young man's most consistent source of sexual arousal. She now identifies herself as bisexual. "It was just such a welcome change, to snuggle under a blanket on the couch with my girlfriend, watch a movie, and talk about God and death and growing old, to be intimate emotionally and spiritually as well as physically. I don't know a guy who could even comprehend the conversations we have."

Note that the above was published back in 2010. It would be interesting to try to find statistics on whether the above-mentioned trends have accelerated since then.


_________________
- Finally diagnosed with ASD in May 2019, after having suspected it for over ten years, and after having deeply explored the autism community for over one year while waiting for and obtaining diagnosis.
- In longterm relationship with boyfriend who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 2001.
- Long history of participation in various oddball subcultures.
- My "Getting to know each other" thread: Hello from NYC.