Claims that a few "super hot men" are hogging all the women

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Twilightprincess
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22 Jun 2019, 10:12 pm

Magna wrote:
I fully support people having different viewpoints. Using words like "segregation", etc make it sound like the women in my extended family and other women in similar agrarian families had and have no choice. The women I describe not only wanted to fill the roles of wife, mother, farmer and businesswoman, they were proud of their achievements and their accomplishments. They loved their lives. They were some of the happiest people in my memories; joking, laughing, playing cards and enjoying the fruits of very hard work.


I didn’t mean to imply that. I live in an area with a lot of Amish and Mennonites. There’s a lot of the old type of religious-based “tradition” that I especially despise... They don’t have a lot of choices or options (Amish drop out of school in 9th grade), and they lose everything when they leave.

I’m happy if people are free to make the choices they want to.



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22 Jun 2019, 10:20 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it.

Here, in the thread "Just be friendly.", the following was quoted:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade

Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.

I'm not of the same mind as Boo that this thread should be locked, but you have attributed beliefs to me that I never claimed to hold. I'm sure it's an honest misunderstanding, so I'll clarify my position.
Mona Pereth wrote:
Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it

That's not exactly what I said. What I said was that there is a decline in men having sex that is greater than the decline in women having sex. I think there are a few factors involved. One of which is online dating, or more specifically hook-ups through online dating.

I don't think "a few" men are monopolizing "all" the women. I do think though that men who are looking for a hook-up are more likely than women to "settle" for someone less attractive than they are. So men who are 8s might sleep with women who are 6s, and men who are 6s might sleep with women who are 4s for example. This could be leading to women believing that they can get better relationship partners than they can, and thus inflating their standards. Or they may just enjoy hooking up with better-quality men than they'd be able to be in a relationship with and decide not to date altogether.

If you are a man who is "bottom of the barrel", and women are looking upwards at higher value men than themselves, your prospects are pretty bad.

Other reasons for this decline could be female sexual fluidity as you suggested, as well as the fact that women outnumber men in colleges and universities, and college-educated women generally want a college-educated man where the opposite isn't really true. It's also the case that more men are staying home with their parents later than women and so that could contribute too. I don't think it's common for a woman who's moved out of home to want to date a man who still lives at home.

As to "claims by men here that they can't get laid because...", I have said several times on this site that certain unattractive traits are predictors for this romantic isolation, like living at home, being unemployed or underemployed, being overweight or obese, etc, so it's a gross mischaracterisation to assert that I'm not taking any ownership in my own traits that are working against me, or not giving ownership to others for theirs, and I'm just chalking it down to "oh well, it's women's fault I'm not getting laid".

Furthermore, something that is getting annoying is people hyperbolising and straw-manning my vuse a on self-improvement to attract women. I'll tell people that living at home, not making enough to sustain an independent living and being overweight and neglecting your health are generally not attractive to women, and then someone will go "oh you think women want this perfect man who has it all", and no, I don't. All I'm simply saying is that if you are failing to attract a woman and you have all the negatives I listed above, there's probably a causal link, and making improvements on even one of two of the negative predictors for success I listed above will probably improve your chances with women.

Oh, and don't quote me and then make inferences about what I might hlbe saying, because in this case you misconstrued it into something I never said and made a whole post attacking it.



Magna
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22 Jun 2019, 10:32 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Magna wrote:
I fully support people having different viewpoints. Using words like "segregation", etc make it sound like the women in my extended family and other women in similar agrarian families had and have no choice. The women I describe not only wanted to fill the roles of wife, mother, farmer and businesswoman, they were proud of their achievements and their accomplishments. They loved their lives. They were some of the happiest people in my memories; joking, laughing, playing cards and enjoying the fruits of very hard work.


I didn’t mean to imply that. I live in an area with a lot of Amish and Mennonites. There’s a lot of the old type of religious-based “tradition” that I especially despise... They don’t have a lot of choices or options (Amish drop out of school in 9th grade), and they lose everything when they leave.

I’m happy if people are free to make the choices they want to.


I would just hope for your sake that you understand that your extreme experience is very atypical. I can understand your strong reflex against your experience, but I was prompted to respond since it seemed like you were applying your experience as being synonymous to "traditional" male and female roles as a whole.

My Mom was 100% a city girl. She was very independent and had an office job at a large company. She was very selective in who she decided to date. She had her own mind and wasn't afraid to speak it for anything.

My Mom thought the my Dad's aunts, farm women, were amazing. She took to them and respected them greatly. Would she have done that if they had "no voice"? Not hardly.

Ultimately I think "traditional" roles are on a spectrum then with your experience being extreme and not indicative of "traditional" roles of women in general who I believe do have a voice.


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Antrax
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22 Jun 2019, 10:36 pm

Am I reading this right that this thread was started today and already has 93 replies. It'll take me a while to catch up, but it seems like someone hit a nerve.


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22 Jun 2019, 10:40 pm

Magna wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Magna wrote:
I fully support people having different viewpoints. Using words like "segregation", etc make it sound like the women in my extended family and other women in similar agrarian families had and have no choice. The women I describe not only wanted to fill the roles of wife, mother, farmer and businesswoman, they were proud of their achievements and their accomplishments. They loved their lives. They were some of the happiest people in my memories; joking, laughing, playing cards and enjoying the fruits of very hard work.


I didn’t mean to imply that. I live in an area with a lot of Amish and Mennonites. There’s a lot of the old type of religious-based “tradition” that I especially despise... They don’t have a lot of choices or options (Amish drop out of school in 9th grade), and they lose everything when they leave.

I’m happy if people are free to make the choices they want to.


I would just hope for your sake that you understand that your extreme experience is very atypical. I can understand your strong reflex against your experience, but I was prompted to respond since it seemed like you were applying your experience as being synonymous to "traditional" male and female roles as a whole.

My Mom was 100% a city girl. She was very independent and had an office job at a large company. She was very selective in who she decided to date. She had her own mind and wasn't afraid to speak it for anything.

My Mom thought the my Dad's aunts, farm women, were amazing. She took to them and respected them greatly. Would she have done that if they had "no voice"? Not hardly.

Ultimately I think "traditional" roles are on a spectrum then with your experience being extreme and not indicative of "traditional" roles of women in general who I believe do have a voice.


There are a lot more fundamentalists in the country than you would probably think who, of course, uphold traditional, biblical views towards marriage and male and female roles.

In any case, there’s nothing wrong with being a nonconformist and wanting to break with tradition, provided that no laws are being broken. I like to march to the beat of my own drum.

The world’s big enough for a lot of diverse attitudes and values (although some are certainly unhealthy.) I just know what I, personally, like.



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22 Jun 2019, 11:14 pm

Dating prospects have gotten scary in all honesty. I've ran into quite few extreme archetypes when it comes to men (mostly online since I am introverted to a fault).

There are a lot who seem desperate or obsessive, for lack of better wording. I'm a very slow person when it comes to getting to know people. I don't really like jumping into things for the most part. But there's a lot of guys who don't seem to get that point. They seem to think that just because I am talking to them, means that I am super into them. And get way too vocally intimate with me right away. They also tend to be the types to randomly dm me without having spoken before either.

Then there are guys who are borderline hostile with me on sight, just because I am a woman. Absolutely refusal to treat me seriously, and also tend to be the types to read heavily into those statistics. Also the same kind that calls any woman who isn't a virgin a whore. I guess your typical 4chan keyboard warrior.

There's plenty of guys outside of these stereotypes of course but holy hell, have I been seeing influxes of those particular types. Last 2 guys were broken from past relationships, to boot. And got broken up with because of it both rounds.



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22 Jun 2019, 11:31 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:

Men have to stop thinking of women as mysterious beings.

People are individuals, not demographic trends.


Yeah but they can be strategic about it...that's where the data comes in handy


The problem with statistics is that they are often misapplied or made to fit someone’s preconceived notions.


Yeah true but these guys should go into "battle" with their eyes open


They might not be open in the right direction, though. That’s kind of the whole point of this thread.


Is there a right direction?


This current thread is closer to the mark than the concept of “alpha males.”

It’s better to work towards specific goals and make oneself interesting than to just give up because women only want a “super hot guy” which is often untrue.

I know several guys who are in relationships that many of you would say are undatable. Apparently, they weren’t.

Self-improvement (in areas that one can improve on. If you can’t work and are on disability, that doesn’t mean it’s impossible) and a positive attitude are key.

I don’t want a provider, traditionally masculine, take charge kind of guy and lots of other women don’t, either.

Being well-read, kind, and intelligent, are more important than anything else.


Actually, you want to know what's funny. When I was in college and during that time I refocused my priorities from trying to get dates to getting my degree. I focused on my studies and I quit thinking about getting a date and through a series of events I met the love of my life. I would be considered undatable as well. Yet, I'm happily married. How did that happen(rhetorical question)?

I also loved to write my own little stories and watch tv as well to pass the time when I wasn't doing my school work.

So, I think you're on to something Twilight. I don't know if you've ever heard of the paradox of happiness but the paradox says that if one tries to directly pursue happiness one won't get it but if one does not pursue it one eventually achieves it. Sometimes, one has to quit and refocus on other things.

As of right now, we're moving to China and I will be teaching Chinese kids English. How about that.

I'm about to get into some new agey stuff and no it is not scientific but maybe the universe or existence has a certain flow sort of like a river and when one learns to go along with this flow things are more likely to work for you in the end if you do not (No guarantees though.)



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22 Jun 2019, 11:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Would you want the kind of woman who digs those sorts of guys?


Exactly? What kinds of women would they be?



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22 Jun 2019, 11:37 pm

It seems to me that the online dating system is broken, but people are increasingly relying on it for convenience.


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Antrax
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22 Jun 2019, 11:40 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Actually, you want to know what's funny. When I was in college and during that time I refocused my priorities from trying to get dates to getting my degree. I focused on my studies and I quit thinking about getting a date and through a series of events I met the love of my life. I would be considered undatable as well. Yet, I'm happily married. How did that happen(rhetorical question)?


You know what's funny. I did the same thing and didn't meet anyone.


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22 Jun 2019, 11:43 pm

Antrax wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Actually, you want to know what's funny. When I was in college and during that time I refocused my priorities from trying to get dates to getting my degree. I focused on my studies and I quit thinking about getting a date and through a series of events I met the love of my life. I would be considered undatable as well. Yet, I'm happily married. How did that happen(rhetorical question)?


You know what's funny. I did the same thing and didn't meet anyone.


There are no guarantees no matter what you do or don't do. But, certain things are more likely to happen or not happen if you do or don't do certain things. But sometimes ya got to change your focus to other things if nothing else to keep yourself from obsessing over something.



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22 Jun 2019, 11:48 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Antrax wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Actually, you want to know what's funny. When I was in college and during that time I refocused my priorities from trying to get dates to getting my degree. I focused on my studies and I quit thinking about getting a date and through a series of events I met the love of my life. I would be considered undatable as well. Yet, I'm happily married. How did that happen(rhetorical question)?


You know what's funny. I did the same thing and didn't meet anyone.


There are no guarantees no matter what you do or don't do. But, certain things are more likely to happen or not happen if you do or don't do certain things.


I could have more artfully constructed my response, but some topics get under my thick scaly hide and this can be one of them. I was feeling petty and was flippant in my response because well it felt good.

My point was that you were speaking from "survivor bias."


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22 Jun 2019, 11:58 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it.

Here, in the thread "Just be friendly.", the following was quoted:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/number-of-men-under-30-who-havent-had-sex-in-last-year-tripled-in-past-decade

Quote:
The share of U.S. adults reporting no sex reached an all-time high last year, according to the latest data from the General Social Survey. Nearly 23 percent of adults between the ages of 18 to 29 were celibate in 2018, more than double the number since 2008...

One surprising result from the data was that a much larger than expected number of the sexless individuals were men. For most of the past three decades, men and women in their twenties reported similar rates of sexlessness. Since 2008, however, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled—compared to an eight percentage point increase reported among females of the same age group.

I'm not of the same mind as Boo that this thread should be locked, but you have attributed beliefs to me that I never claimed to hold. I'm sure it's an honest misunderstanding, so I'll clarify my position.
Mona Pereth wrote:
Lately I've seen quite a few claims by men here that the reason they can't get laid is because vast numbers of "average women" are having sex with just a few "super hot men" or "alpha males." Below I'll post the latest iteration of this claim, from another thread here, and my response to it

That's not exactly what I said. What I said was that there is a decline in men having sex that is greater than the decline in women having sex. I think there are a few factors involved. One of which is online dating, or more specifically hook-ups through online dating.

I don't think "a few" men are monopolizing "all" the women. I do think though that men who are looking for a hook-up are more likely than women to "settle" for someone less attractive than they are. So men who are 8s might sleep with women who are 6s, and men who are 6s might sleep with women who are 4s for example. This could be leading to women believing that they can get better relationship partners than they can, and thus inflating their standards. Or they may just enjoy hooking up with better-quality men than they'd be able to be in a relationship with and decide not to date altogether.

If you are a man who is "bottom of the barrel", and women are looking upwards at higher value men than themselves, your prospects are pretty bad.

Other reasons for this decline could be female sexual fluidity as you suggested, as well as the fact that women outnumber men in colleges and universities, and college-educated women generally want a college-educated man where the opposite isn't really true. It's also the case that more men are staying home with their parents later than women and so that could contribute too. I don't think it's common for a woman who's moved out of home to want to date a man who still lives at home.

As to "claims by men here that they can't get laid because...", I have said several times on this site that certain unattractive traits are predictors for this romantic isolation, like living at home, being unemployed or underemployed, being overweight or obese, etc, so it's a gross mischaracterisation to assert that I'm not taking any ownership in my own traits that are working against me, or not giving ownership to others for theirs, and I'm just chalking it down to "oh well, it's women's fault I'm not getting laid".

Furthermore, something that is getting annoying is people hyperbolising and straw-manning my vuse a on self-improvement to attract women. I'll tell people that living at home, not making enough to sustain an independent living and being overweight and neglecting your health are generally not attractive to women, and then someone will go "oh you think women want this perfect man who has it all", and no, I don't. All I'm simply saying is that if you are failing to attract a woman and you have all the negatives I listed above, there's probably a causal link, and making improvements on even one of two of the negative predictors for success I listed above will probably improve your chances with women.

Oh, and don't quote me and then make inferences about what I might hlbe saying, because in this case you misconstrued it into something I never said and made a whole post attacking it.



I totally agree with you, Mona just shoved words in our months.
Notice that I haven’t even used the term “alpha males”, just “super hot men”, I was referring to the good looks only, to those who have an undeniable advantage in apps like Tinder.

Nor I did any blame game, just talking about a well known factor affecting the dating scheme.

And the title is also wrong, I said apps is making it easy for the average women *on dating apps* to sleep with “super hot men”; not that these super hot men are monopolizing all women; and certainly not the case in real life, otherwise the increasing gap would be more disastrous.

I stand with my position: this thread is defaming (thro the misinterpretation you pointed out) some members, whether it is intentional or not it doesn’t matter.
And I stil think it has to be locked, and oh break0 your insults and tantrums don’t scare me, I stand with what I said.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 23 Jun 2019, 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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23 Jun 2019, 12:01 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
The above-quoted article speculates that many young women these days are getting more and more turned off by men in general (and preferring other women instead) because of men's behavior due to unrealistic expectations caused by watching too much porn.

If indeed that's true, then what's the solution?

Alas, I don't think it's realistic to try to get men to stop watching porn, given how easily available porn is in today's world.

But maybe it might be possible for men to be persuaded to watch a different kind of porn? Perhaps men should be encouraged to watch porn that is made by women, portraying sex as the women producers themselves like it, and showing the male viewer how to be a better lover? Perhaps if more men were to watch that kind of porn, more men would be better in bed and fewer women would get turned off to men altogether?



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23 Jun 2019, 12:20 am

The redneck men and hip-hop thugs in my area aren't always "hot". A lot of them are fat or rail thin, have a two digit vocabulary, wear cheap clothes, work at gas stations, drive banged up vehicles, and they get girlfriends easily though they often settle for women who are fat or rail thin as well. Mainstream Bible Belt men tend to be either super rich or just average. The super rich ones I know have supermodel-esque wives while the average ones tend to have "Plain Jane" wives.

My mother and older brother wanted me to date a "Plain Jane" woman who was part of the Aspergers support group I used to be part of. She was from a very religious family and had no interest in anime, manga, comics, and music that wasn't church music. She was actually afraid of R-rated movies. However, despite my mother and older brother's pressuring, her parents wouldn't let her date and now they don't even let her have male friends.