Ruined things with temper tantrum?

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So I met a girl on a dating site, and we are several states away. One big thing we have in common is that she seems to like about me what most people don't. Most people are telling me that I am only talking about myself and am not interested in anyone else's life. She was the opposite: she told me I was the only one who was genuinely interested in her! And all I had to do to get this kind of compliment was just write a few basic questions about her life. I mean, I wrote like pages and pages about myself, only like one or two paragraphs about her, and then she is telling me I am the only person who is interested in her! And, speaking of long winded writing about me, most people are turned off by that. But she was the opposite, she said she really enjoyed the way I write such long emails, and how she felt it was so unique that I write a lot and how it built a unique connection.

And even the things she said she doesn't like in other guys she turned them around in my case. For example, she mentioned that she is turned off by guys that are rude to waitresses. So I told her how I am rude to waitresses sometimes. So she said "no I don't mean forgetting to say hi or thank you, I mean screaming at waitresses" and so I mentioned a time I screamed at a waitress whom I thought was avoiding me due to my Asperger and she said "no I didn't mean screaming for that reason, I meant screaming when food is not prepared up to their standards". She also told me how in case of other guys when they ask her too soon about dating she takes it as controling and backs away, but in my case it was fine because she saw that my intentions were quite different. And likewise she said that my remark about only dating White girls might have been a turn off with other guys since for her racism is a big no-no, but in my case she realized I am not racist because of how I explained myself. I also talked about ex-s a lot, and even shown her how I have cats that represented them -- and then asked her if I turned her off by this, and she said I didn't turn her off because she knows I am over them, I am just a really caring person and in fact she found what I told her cute. I also asked her "are you good enough to replace one of my ex-s" and she said she took it as a compliment because to her the word "replace" means she is better than her -- which is totally not what I mean (in my case I mean replace the good thing with second best) -- but thats how she said she took it. And also there was one day when I was asking her about the way she was sexually molested at the age of 8, I was asking her about her endomtriosis, and she was answering all those questions in detail without being phased by them being too personal. When I asked her whether it is too personal she said "stop worrying, I told you how I masturbate, you can't get much more personal than that" (yes, indeed she did tell me how she masturbates during one of our skype discussions).

In any case, here is how things went downhill. So during that one discussion when she told me how she masturbates, I fell asleep as she was describing it (basically I was lying in bed with light turn off in order to pretend like we are snuggling together) and then I woke up half an hour later and found out she hanged up during the time I was asleep, so I called her to apologize for the fact that I fell asleep and she told me not to wake her up cause she needs to get up early. Next day she told me that even though she had to come to work a bit late it was well worth it since she really enjoyed skyping with me that night. But then during the evening of that day I haven't heard from her at the time I usually do. And when I finally heard from her I asked her whether or not I turned her off since she messaged me a bit later. She told me I didn't turn her off she was just nervous and so I asked her what was she nervous about, and she said about the fact that I don't believe in sex before marriage and also about the way she wishes she was with me physically which she can't do for a long time since we are in different states. So then I pointed out that in that same conversation when I talked about not wanting sex before marriage I also talked about concerns with my job situation, so isn't it weird she worries about sex but doesn't worry about financial stability? And she said she isn't concerned about financial stability because she is in a comfortable financial situation, so as long as I help out in some ways like taking care of the house while she is at work she is fine -- except for when the kids are involved then she would want me to help financially. Well I didn't ask her about that last part of a sentence since I figured that asking about it would only make it worse. So I just start talking about sex part and asked her whether she felt like its my Asperger that I don't want sex and I was just using religion as an excuse. She said no thats not it, rather she has the problem with most guys -- not just me -- that they don't want sex as much as she does. So I asked her how is it possible if men are supposed to have stronger sex drive than women. She said not in her case. So then I asked her is she having strong sex drive because she was raped. She said she used to think this way but she realized its not the case since she had strong sex drive -- before -- she was raped as well. But remember, she was raped at 8 year old, so she had strong sex drive before 8, she told me she developed faster than most girls and she stopped growing at 8 as well.

In any case, the above conversation went well, or at least I thought it did. Like I said, I asked her if my questions are too personal and she said that nothing is ever too personal since she even told me how she masturbates two days prior. Then we talked about endomtriosis and I asked her if it poses a problem when it comes to her having kids, she kept assuring me that it doesn't, etc.

But then, after we finished that conversation, I didn't hear from her for two days -- which is unusual since up until then I heard from her every day (remember how I was concerned when I heard from her at 7 PM rather than 5 PM). So then I asked her if I turned her off. She said that she was torn between being good friends and being more than friends. I asked her why. She said that it is because of the sex thing AND the job thing. But remember how I was surprised when she mentioned sex thing without mentioning job thing two days prior and she assured me job isn't the issue? Thats why I was surprised it now became an issue. So she said that if there are no kids then yes like she said yesterday she won't need my help, but if we do have kids then it is a concern. So then I started giving her all the backup plans in which I can get a job, but she didn't reply to that text. So then I started sending her more texts about it and when she eventually replied she said "I appreciate you trying to figure it out. To which I replied "I don't fucken care what you appreciate" And that is the part that was a real turning point, or it seems that way Because you see, she called me out on that reply and told me how "not fucken caring what she appreciates" implies "not fucken caring what she feels" -- which is precisely what her dad told her which made her cut him off (oh by the way her dad wasn't the one who raped her so that part is irrelevant).

But you see, the reason I said "I don't fucken care what you appreciate" was because I felt like her saying "I appreciate" didn't mean she actually appreciated, rather it meant just something polite to say so that I won't keep sending her more and more messages. In other words, what I MEANT to say was "I don't care about polite lines, lets talk about what your REALLY feel -- since I obviously DO care about what you feel and want to address your concerns". But she took it literally and decided that I meant to say I didn't care. In any case, I kept explaining myself (basically the same way I just explained myself to you in the above few sentences) but she kept telling me she wanted me to leave her alone and when I was asking her for how long she said she didn't know, she just knew she couldn't talk to me that day but she can't predict how many days she will need.

So I finally left her alone and then few days later she got back to me and told me that, after she had time to cool off, she is willing to continue talking to me, but she wants to meet in person as soon as possible in order to see whether or not we are a match -- and she doesn't want any feelings to develop before we meet in person. Now, on the surface, wanting to meet looks like a good thing. But you have to look at the context: the context was that she used to want to postpone meeting, and she was even saying things like "I am so attracted to you that I am tempted to just buy ticket and fly over and I have to stop myself from doing that". So why would she, back in the "good days", be trying so hard "not to" meet and then, at the bad days, all of a sudden want to meet? The way I made sense of this was the following: the longer we postpone the meeting, the more feelings would develop between us, and the more likely the outcome of the meeting would be positive. So in the good days she wanted to postpone the meeting longer so that when we do meet it goes well, but in the bad days she wants to meet as soon as possible in order to convince herself that there isn't much there anyway and leave.

However, when I confronted her with this explanation, she insisted that meeting sooner won't lower the likelyhood of us ending up dating: she said whether or not we would date has everything to do with the "spark", and the "spark" has to do with pheromones, which has nothing to do with when/how we meet. At first she told me that the reason she wanted to meet sooner was that when she saw how I didn't want to let her go when she got mad -- even though she was frustrated at first -- it shown her some of my good qualities. I wasn't buying it. So when I EVENTUALLY got the truth out of her she said that my temper tantrum didn't get the dating off the table but it DID get friendship off the table. So, before the tantrum, she was thinking if there is spark we will date and if there is no spark we will be just friends; but after tantrum she is thinking "if there is spark we will date but if there is no spark we will stop talking" and thats what made it more urgent to find out whether there is a spark or not sooner rather than later -- which is why she wanted to meet sooner. But you see, the bad side of it is that she didn't want to open up to me any more since, in the event that she will decide to stop talking after the meeting, she doesn't want to be invested as she put it. From my perspective, the side effect of this is that we would have less in common when we meet so that the meeting will less likely to go well. She denies it because she says its all up to the "spark". But I am just not buying it.

So, from my perspective, in order for meeting to go well, we have to be closer to each other before we meet-- which means that we should both talk a lot and spend more time talking. The reason she doesn't want to do it is that "friendship" option is no longer on a table and so she doesn't want to open up to someone with whom she might potentially end contact after we meet. Therefore, in order to convince her to do that, I need to bring friendship option back on the table. That doesn't mean I want to be just friends: quite the opposite, I want to date her. But you see, in order to increase probability of dating her, I need to persuade her to open up to me before the dating, and in order to persuade her to do that, I need to persuade her that friendship is still an option if there wont be a spark if we do meet. Do you follow my logic? If its dating or nothing, then she doesn't want to open up before we meet (so she won't get hurt if its nothing), as a result we have less of a connection when we meet, and that would make it nothing as opposed to dating. On the other hand, if it is dating or friendship, then she would be willing to open up to me (since she won't lose the person she is opening up to), so then we would have more of a connection when we meet, and then the "dating" outcome would be more likely.

So, based off of this logic, I kept trying to persuade her to go back to the earlier -- dating or friendship -- deal, that we used to have before I lost my temper. That means that I was trying to persuade her to postpone the meeting till later and also to respond to my messages more and write long winded emails like she used to. So I guess I need to tell you by later I mean how much later. So we first started talking in April, and I threw that temper tantrum probably at the end of May. I was going to go see my mom in July, and since I keep my dating life from my mom I didn't want to meet her then. So our original plan was to meet in August, but after I threw my temper tantrum she decided to meet "as soon as possible" -- however, since we are that far away, "as soon as possible" meant in the end of June. In particular she was going to go to some state closer to where I was for her own reasons (I think meet a family or something), and that was supposed to be at the end of June -- and she wanted to take an opportunity and come see me. So, within any other context, I wouldn't have been opposed to that meeting at all: it doesn't sound like a meeting too soon, quite the opposite in fact. But like I said, you need to look at a particular context. In this particular context there was a reason why she wanted to wait till August -- presumably she thought that more time would build more connection -- and thats why I wanted to go back to whatever plans were before I threw my tantrum, since it seemed so perfect.

Now my argument to her was the following. I pointed out to her the things I mentioned in the beginning of this post that I thought were bad yet they were just fine with her -- and compared it to one single thing I said that put her completely off -- so how could I have predicted that this one single thing would be so much worse than everything else put together? On my end of a line, I couldn't. But on her end of a line there is a very good reason for it: in particular, her dad told her "I don't care what you think" so when I said "I don't care what you appreciate", it reminded her of her dad. Well, I didn't know it would have reminded her of her dad, but I know now. So now that I know what her "sore spots" are, I can do my best to avoid them. She told me she is glad to hear this. So then I said "okay now that you heard it, do you think we can be friends in the event that we meet and there is no spark"? She said "lets cross the friendship bridge when we get to it". I guess what I SHOULD HAVE asked her -- but didn't -- is "what if I asked you this question before the tantrum, would you have said yes or would you have also said lets cross that bridge wehn we get to it". Because you see, even though on the surface this leaves the door open, in reality it hurts me because she continued not to have long conversations with me.

Now, if it was any other girl, it would have been fine. Yes, she was replying half the time -- although it is only half the time, plus I had to wait for her replies and her replies plus her replies were rather short. But thats what happens with most other girls with whom I am lucky enough for them to talk to me on the first place (which doesn't happen that often) so I guess its fine. Except no its not fine because she is not like other girls, she is that one rare girl who ENJOYED the lengthy posts from me. So its like the one main thing that was special about her was taken away. She admitted that things changed -- yet she was saying "the fact that its different doesn't mean its bad, just different". Well, how can it not be bad? She used to tell me HERSELF that she enjoyed long messages. So if long messages was a really good thing then it being taken away would be bad. Simple logic. Yet she kept denying that its bad.

In any case, what happened a few times is that, over texts, I been having questions such as above, but then when she called me over the phone I felt better since I heard her voice and knew she wasn't ghosting me, but then again over the texts she wouldn't talk for few days and her replies would be short so I would again start obsessing and then I would again feel better when she would call me over the phone. So we had probably two or three such phone conversations after the tantrum, but at some point she stopped calling.

At some point she said she had a cold and also she needed to increase her dose of antidepresants. Also one time she told me that it was the end of the school year -- she works as a teacher -- so she was super busy trying to pull those things together and grade things and will become available after the school year ends. But then when the school year ended she told me that its the first week she doesn't have to go to work and she wants to enjoy the time when she doesn't have to do anything FOR anyone. But wait a second. Why is sending me texts amounts to doing something FOR me? She used to enjoy talking to me. So why isn't she enjoying it now?

One thing she said was that, after school year was over, she didn't just stop talking to me, she stopped talking to her friends and family as well. And, back when the school year was ending, she likewise told me that her reaction to stress was to withdrew, not just from me but from others as well. On the surface that would be a good thing -- but if you look beyond the surface, it doesn't look so good any more. Remember how I mentioned that she kept complimenting me that I was the only person who cares about what she has to say? So maybe she withdraws from everyone else not because -- she -- is that way but, rather, its because -- they -- are that way. But then, after I threw my temper tantrum, I just moved myself from the unique category I was at to the category where those other people are. After all, remember how she said that the reason my tantrum hurt her so badly is because of "I don't care" part? So by saying "I don't care" during that tantrum, I just neutralized the one unique thing about me that she thought she knew. And thats why she no longer views me as that special person and withdraws from me -- for the same reason as she withdraws from everyone else -- that neither me, nor them, care about her. I actually sent her a text message with this analysis and asked her if this was in fact the case -- and she said she was too busy to reply at the moment but will reply when she has more time -- and she still haven't replied to this particular message, although she replied to a couple of other things.

The other thing she told me -- which probably is NOT an excuse -- is that when I got really pushy about trying to get her to send me long emails it just pushed her away since she doesn't like clingy people. Well I guess that part might be true since I know most other girls don't like clingy people either, and in fact thats how I push girls away. But you see, once I screw up, I can't help with the clinginess part. But one thing I CAN help is not to screw up initially -- and then I won't have to get clingy. Thats why I still feel like I want to undo the temper tantrum.

In any case, one thing that she said in the context of my being pushy for attention is that she feels like I wanted her to be my mom and her previous relationship was with a guy who also wanted her to be his mom so she doesn't want such a relationship. So then I explained to her that I didn't want her to be my mom because I had girlfriends in the past that were and it pushed me away. Of course, she doesn't have to take my word for it -- but she did, or at least she said she did. I mean she said "I am glad you don't want me to be your mom, now I feel much better" and then I said "so are you still willing to date me" and she said "if you don't want me to be your mom then yes". Okay so this exchange implies that she basically asks me whether I want her to be my mom, takes my answer on a face value, if I say no, then great she wants to date me. Alright, so I was thinking that now she will talk to me, problem solved. But nope, she still weren't talking to me.

In any case, despite all of my protestations against meeting the last week on June, I was assuming it was still the plan: after all, when I kept arguing with her about it, she kept justifying why we should meet, she never once said "fine lets not meet". The only thing somewhat close to that was when she said "we will just have to agree to disagree on this one", but "agree to disagree" doesn't touch the actual plans: after all we can't cut ourselves in two halfs so that one pair of halfs follows one set of plans and the other pair of halfs the other set of plans. So, as far as plans go, I was assumign we were meeting in the last week of June.

Now, like I said, I didn't want to meet because I wanted to develop more connection before meeting by having those lengthy conversations. But since I couldn't get her to have those lengthy conversations anyway, and as a matter of fact she was barely writing to me anything at all, I figured out that simply waiting for a couple of months while we are both quiet isn't going to draw us any closer to each other, in fact it would only draw us apart. So then I realized I want to meet, so that our meeting might reignite some conversation.

In any case, I sent her like three different texts -- probably spaced a day or two apart from each other -- where I asked her what about meeting. She was replying to other parts of those texts while ignoring the meeting part. Then finally I DID get her to respond to the part about meeting, and she said she had to look at the tickets. Interestingly enough, the past couple of weeks it took like a day or even a few days to wait for her reply. But once she talked about meeting she was replying every few minutes. So she said she didn't plan the meeting because she wanted us to talk together about the time. ANd I said I thought we already talked about it and we agreed about the last week of June. Then she said that she needed to look at the tickets. And five minutes later she said that she saw the tickets and they were all very expensive. Basically she is in Maryland and I am in New Mexico and last week of June she is in Oklahoma. So she said, because of such a tight time frame, the tickets from Oklahoma to New Mexico ended up being more than twice more expansive than tickets from Maryland to New Mexico if she were to buy them earlier, so she said she doesn't want to buy them. I asked is it related to my behavior that she doesn't want to spend that amount of money? She said no, its not about my behavior: she wouldn't have wanted to pay that much anyway.

In any case, she said that she is really frustrated because she anticipated that would happen and thats why she was trying to push the plan to buy tickets earlier rather than later. She said that the reason she didn't buy the tickets before is that she "values my opinion" and "doesn't want to go where she is not wanted" (but you see, as I explained earlier, its not that she wasn't wanted -- rather it was me thinking as to what timing would be best for the relationship -- and she knows all of my thoughts since I kept sending them to her in as much detail as I described them here, and I kept repeating it over and over again). She also told me that she doesn't know where to go from this point and what she DOES know is that in August she would have a lot lower salary than she does now, so money would be more tight. But you see, thats not what she told me before. In the past I was lead to believe it was my behavior that caused her to want to meet in June rather than August! That, plus also if in August her money would be more tight, then what would have happened if I didn't throw that temper tantrum? How would have she been able to meet me in August then? And the other thing is that I vaguely remember she mentioned the possibility of driving from Oklahoma to New Mexico. I am not too sure she actually said it, since I only remember it quite vaguely. But I am pretty sure she did, because I myself don't drive, so it wouldn't have occurred to me if she didn't say it. So, IF she did say it, then why is it totally off the table now?

In any case, few days later I sent her a text message asking her exactly what should I do to get her to talk to me. And in that message I pointed out that at some point she was busy with the end of the semester, now its no longer the end of the semester yet she still doesn't talk. Then there was time when she didn't like it that I wanted her to be my mom -- yet she took my word for it when I told her that I didn't -- yet after that she still didn't talk. Then also she said she was upset about those high prices on the tickets -- but she didn't say anything about it until I brought it up. So what is the real thing that keeps her from talking to me? What should I do to get her to talk? So then she told me that it was her first week when she doesn't teach and she wants to enjoy the time when she doesn't have to do anything FOR anyone thats why she needs a break. But why is talking to me amounts to doing things FOR me? Why isn't she enjoying talking to me like she used to? She also said she doesn't talk to her friends and family either now that she is on her break. Well, first of all, tis hard to believe. What about her trip to Oklahoma the last week of June? So she makes that trip to visit them yet she doesn't tlak to them? And also EVEN IF she didn't tlak to them, like I said, remember how she used to say I was the only one who cares about her? Maybe she doesn't talk to them because they don't care. And now she thinks I don't care due to my tantrum and thats why she doesn't talk to me either. Maybe if it wasn't for that tantrum I would have been the only person she was talking to -- just like I was the only person who she said cared about her?

Anyway what do you think about this whole dynamics and do you think I have any chance with her?

I think it's funny that she felt unique because you sent her long messages and here you are posting long messages for all of us

She wasn't unique in that I sent her long messages -- rather she was unique in that she was the only person that responded with messages equally long AND enjoyed it. When I write long messages to others I get little or no reply, but from her I get equally long reply.

She also said -- I -- was unique in that I was willing to write those long emails. Now if I write emails equally long to everyone else this doesn't contradict that. Fact remains: other people SHE interacts with don't want to send HER those long emails.

She doesn't want to do the things she enjoys FOR you when she doesn't feel like doing them, because then they feel forced and she actually feels uncomfortable around you, this feeling can linger on. Try to have patience with her boundaries [such as wanting no friendship] and earn her trust to deal with it rather than trying to talk her into giving it up and changing it for your sake when she doesn't feel like it/want it. Show that you're brave and strong rather than controlling and impatient. You want to send her the message she is free of too much responsibility, not your mom to feed you your needs when she is exhausted. Show your care through acts that put her, her wants especially, before you.

Also your insecurities might have bothered her, but its interesting to me because they seem to be useful to you, like you gain more knowledge about things. Although I wonder if you don't talk/ask too much about things which have a negative undertone such as these kinds of insecure questions, where she often tells you to relax. It could get annoying if done too much. Talk about happy things, have fun times more, appreciate her and respect her.

A good confidence on you and less noticeable bother when it comes to her not being able to "fulfill" a friendship with you or something you want from her might attract her much more and have her feel much more safe. She has trust issues ever since your "tantrum" and forcing her to change her mind on friendship makes her feel tense too. Be careful with such things.

Since you kept using the word "friendship", I wanted to make it clear that I am hoping to have romantic relationship too, not just friendship. The reason "friendship" part became a big deal is that she didn't "withdraw" the relationship option but she "withdrew" the friendship one, so I was focused on whichever one she withdrew. Although right now I am not sure: she wasn't talking to me ever since I made that OP, so how are we supposed to be in a relationship if I won't hear anything from her?

I know about that from your post.

I get the feeling she needs space currently. I worry that you continuing to have sent her messages although she seemed to be exhausted and not too interested in talking might have made her distance a bit more, but I understand your struggle with keeping it working under this circumstance. I guess the only option is to change a bit if youll continue to message or try to have more patience with her, tell her to take her time and show you accept her. If you dont like her wasting your time any longer you can move on.

Her inability to accept your side of the story about your tantrum is not a good thing, I'm guessing she has trouble trusting you and i'snt as attracted to you, otherwise she would hang around you more. The fact that she has put you on wait for the relationship and refuses friendship basically impedes you from moving on, while she isn't making time to work on things. That's not fair to you.

I think she might be resenting the fact shes supposed to pay for the trip to meet you, this might not reinforce your reliability after the thing she said bothers her about the money. Since she said the tickets are expensive, you would have better offered to at least pay half of the price or as much as she needed, if not integrally. I don't know how well you are off financially but even so it'd send her a strong message you want to meet her if you want to make it possible through all means. Best would be if you'd visit her with your own money. That'd also ensure your finances aren't taken advantage of, but you actually took the trip there and if she's lied, then at least you didn't send her the money and you got yourself a trip.

Actually, on June 29-th, she said "I will let you know when I am ready to reconnect" in response to my last message. I respected that, and didn't send her any more messages.

My worry though is what if she will never write to me?



Well, she didn't tell me that she doesn't believe me. Rather, she told me she believes me but she can't control how she feels. But then again -- maybe in actuality she doesn't believe me, just won't say it since she doesn't want an argument. I mean, if she doesn't trust me, that also means she wouldn't trust me enough to tell how she feels, which might imply she would say other things instead.



Exactly! Yet she was saying "oh its not worse just different", so she was acting like I was stupid enough to believe that statement. But you see how you also see that its worse, so its not just me, after all. Yet she acted like it was just me.



Thats a really interesting point that I haven't really thought about. I mean, what if the tantrum didn't happen. In this case she would still have to pay to meet me. So how come it wouldn't have been an issue then? But then again, I have no idea whether it would have been an issue since, before the tantrum, we were going to meet in August -- and only after the tantrum she tried to make it June -- so we weren't discussing any of the particulars of the meeting.

But I do suspect I mentioned that she would have to be the one coming to see me: I mean I remember the conversation, long before the tantrum, when she said "I have to use a lot of self control in order not to just buy the tickets and fly to you now". So that means that I probably mentioned at some point that I preferred her to be the one flying to see me. Although its possible that I didn't, I don't remember.



By "the thing she said bothers her about money", were you referring to our conversation about my job situation, or what were you referring to?



Incidentally, she was offering to pay half of my price when she tried to explore the option of my coming, but then I said I can't afford that either since my credit card was almost maxed out at the time. But that conversation took place at the end of May, which was shortly after my tantrum -- although she hoped for the meeting in question to take place in June.

On the other hand, the time when she said that she looked at the tickets and they were too expensive took place in the third week of June when I was the one who brought up the topic "so why aren't we discussing the meeting". The reason I didn't offer to pay half of her price then was

a) My credit card was still close to its limit

b) In that same message she said "I don't want you to fix it, I am just telling you how I feel". So "not wanting me to fix it" implies not wanting me to pay for it, at least thats how I interpretted it.



I am a graduate student and, in America, graduate students are Teaching Assistants, so they get paid for it, which covers their tuition as well. Due to this, I don't have any other job, since the payment I get through school is supposed to be enough for me to eat. But I guess I am not good with money so I spend more than I can afford thats why I got into credit card debt. Thats partly because my mom is paying my credit card from time to time, I guess if she didn't do it I would be more careful. BUt in any case, I didn't tell my mom about my credit card situation until "after" the conversations I described, since I didn't want her to get mad. But now that I told her, she paid half of my credit card, and she says she will pay the other half. But she asked me to promise her not to get into debt again. So thats why I don't really want to fly to see her since that would again put me into the debt.



I don't think she is going to lie since, back when she tried to plan the trip, she didn't ask me to pay for it. That, plus also her trying to suggest I be the one to fly and see her -- and offer to pay for half of it -- also suggests she wasn't trying to scam me.

What I am wondering about is this though. I mentioned to her the credit card problems I had, and I am thinking: would it make her suspect I was the one trying to scam her? I mean, I know I wasn't going to ask her for any money -- the only reason I talked about it is that I have a habbit of talking about any problems I have. Like I also talked to her about the problems I had with my professor -- and this didn't imply I wanted her to help me there. But I am wondering, does she "know" I wasn't planing to ask her for money, or is she suspecting that I did? She haven't confronted me on this, so I guess I can assume she didn't suspect anything bad. But maybe she did, and simply didn't say it? What makes it hard to tell is that the timing of the thing with money almost coincided with the timing of my temper tantrum. So could it be that it was the money that made her not talk to me -- and I am "thinking" it was temper tantrum since temper tantrum is the only thing she actually confronted me about? I guess the good thing is that we taked for like two or three weeks prior to that, so if I was a scammer I would have asked her for money a lot faster. That, plus also, if I wanted money, I would have said "yes I want to meet, please pay for my ticket" -- but thats not what I said: I was saying why I "didn't" want to meet. So, logically, this should imply I am not a scammer.
But I guess I can't read her mind.

I guess in order to see if the thing was the money or the tantrum, let me tell you the time order

So first we had the conversation where I mentioned how I don't know if I will have a job in the future. Then I didn't hear from her for two days. Then I asked her why didn't I hear from her, and she mentioned she was concerned about the job situation, so this triggered my tantrum. Then, after tantrum, she didn't want to talk to me for a couple of days. Then a she was willing to talk on the phone and that was when she said she wanted to meet me a lot earlier -- and we had this discussion whether it is a bad thing (both over the phone and over text). Then, after our phone conversation, I assumed things were fine, so I went back to the usual habbit of telling her things in my life. So THAT was when I mentioned the credit card problem: I told her how I bought a bunch of pasta to save money and pointed out to her how its weird that it says pasta has so few calories if it is supposed to be fattening and asked her if I could lose weight that way -- so she told me yes pasta is fattening so no I won't lose weight, and told me how she personally cooks it. But in any case, THAT was when I mentioned credit card to her. Then after that I noticed she was replying only to half of my messages but not to all, and her replies got shorter. So then I confronted her as to why she never writes long messages. Then she told me that thing about withdrawing the friendship option while keeping the relationship option.

So yeah, as you see, I mentioned credit card two days after the tantrum. Thats why its hard to tell them apart from pure timeline point of view. But she never confronted me about credit card, she only confronted me about tantrum, although she can always think things without saying.

That whole thing took place probably towards the end of May, so it was long before the June 29-th when we had the last conversation. But things kinda snowballed from that point on as I kept pushing her to be sending me long messages and she wouldn't.

Maybe she just meant she still wants to date you, so not really worse. Then again, the "no friendship" thing means worse.


It was probably a mix of things that changed things.


Yes.


How about "not wanting you to fix it" and "needing you to fix it", at least on an emotional level. If she has the money and she wanted it, though, it wouldn't have been a matter, but she rushed to say it before knowing you and experiencing any negatives with you. Then she got letdown and was doubting your interest in her probably and thats probably why she specified she needs to be sure it's truly wanted [by you] before she does it. Such as, no point for her struggling until you show significant interest in it and her so shes sure you're willing to work on it and not treat her bad.



I don't think shes worried about you scamming her financially since you couldnt because she would use the money herself, as much as you not truly having feelings for her and treating her bad, in that way you could scam her of her effort to meet you, her time, and her feelings.

Its not likely the credit card pasta mention upset her as much as the fact you arent going to try to have a job or get financial support for your autism/struggles, and expect her to "mother" you financially.

But why would she doubt my interest in her if I was clearly obsessing over her -- as evident from my repeated texts? But then again, as paradoxic as it is, she probably was -- since I was in this situation with other girls too when I was obsessing over them yet they were doubting my interest. And its not like they don't notice that I obsess: they very much do, as evident from the fact that they were annoyed by my obsession. Yet they were annoyed by my obsessing AND doubting my interest AT THE SAME TIME. And thats what I never understood how it is possible. Why, in their minds, would I obsess over something I am not interested in?



She DID say "no point in struggling until the visit". But the way she put it is that she needs to see me to see if we will date, since the possibility of friendship was off the table.

As far as me showing significant interest, the one question I have is, how come one of the options on how to meet was her coming to see me, when she would pay the whole price (the only reason this didn't work is that she wanted to do it ahead of time so that the tickets would be cheaper).

Or are you saying it was a "test", as in, she wanted to see if I would offer to pay half her price -- and since its a test thats why she didn't tell me what it is about? What she actually told me was that she wanted to see if there is a spark -- and she kept insisting that spark isn't something I can control by my behavior. But do you think it was a lie -- and her actual plan was to tell me "there is a spark" if I offer to pay half her price and say "there is no spark" if I don't?



I didn't mean scam in terms of her paying for my ticket, I meant scam in terms of hoping she would offer to help me pay off my credit card in response to my saying how I only ate pasta. But no I wasn't hoping for her to do that -- like I said, I only talked about it because I have a habbit of talking about "everything".



Okay here is my job situation. Basically I want to be a professor in theoretical physics. I don't know about Romania, but here in the US it is very competitive, and it can be like 100 candidates per place -- or it can even be as high as 300 or 500 candidates per place. I guess the way people reasonably hope to get a job like that is that they apply to 100 places, themselves, so out of those 100 maybe they would be lucky enough to hear back from a couple. But in any case, what this competition is based on is largely the number of publications. Most of them have 15 or 20 publications or even more. I have 29 papers on arxiv.org, but they don't count as publications since arxiv.org isn't peer reviewed. The way it works is that people send things to arxiv.org but then, at the same time, also send it to the journal and then in half a year journal publishes it, while the point of arxiv.org is simply for others to be able to see it right away instead of waiting till it gets to the journal. But, in my case, what happened is that journals refused to publish most of those papers. Well, I got 3 of them published, but this is way too little.

What most people do in my situation is that they apply to work in a lab, or to do the teaching job -- and either of those two things are a lot easier to get. There are some teaching universities where people don't have any publications at all, and even having 1 publication is already a lot. But you see, I don't want to work in teaching university, nor do I want to work in a lab either. I want to be a professor. So I decided to go back to graduate school -- even though I already got my Ph.D. back in 2009 -- in order to have a redo. So my first ph.d. was in physics, and my second ph.d. is in math. What I was hoping to happen was that, since I am in graduate school, the professors will feel responsible for me, so they might help me edit my papers so that they get published. That, plus also I get paid, so I don't have to look for another job. As it turns out yes, professors are willing to spend time with me. But since I am now in math -- and my papers were in physics -- they can't help me with editting most of them. Although I am working on a couple of them. The good news, though, is that in math you need fewer publications than in physics, since in math its a lot harder to get published. So if I can get, say, 3 publications in math journals, maybe I will have some chance of getting a job as a mathematician -- and then do physics once I get it (there are some physicists that work in math departments, although there are few). But still, the fact that there might be 100 candidates per place is true for math departments too, so I can't really count on anything.

In any case, during that skype conversation which took place two days BEFORE my tantrum, thats what I been telling her. She told me in response that she is well off financially so its okay with her if I wouldn't work, as long as I take care of the house while she is at work -- but the only exception is when we have kids, then she would want me to contribute. I purposely didn't ask her any questions about that "exception" since I was glad that she was willing to have me not work at the other times. After that we talked about other things, which were quite personal about her (and they had nothing to do with money) so I could tell she was still really close to me -- and that conversation about other personal topics continued for another two hours or so. But then, after that conversation ended, I didn't hear from her for two days. Then, two days after that conversation, I asked her why is she more distant. Then she told me that she is concerned about raising kids since then she would want me to contribute. So then I contradicted what I told her earlier and said "okay, if worst comes to worst, I can go and take the teaching job at the university". But I didn't hear her reply within 10 minutes of sending that text, so I sent another text elaborating on it. Then she said "I appreciate that you are trying to figure it out" -- but it felt like she didn't believe me because that line was really short and she usually writes a lot more. So then I said "I don't care what you appreciate" -- and that is what I was referring to by my "tantrum" since this is what set her off. What she told me is "I don't care what you appreciate" sounds like "I don't care how you feel" which is what her dad told her which caused her to cut him off. So then I tried to explain to her that I didn't mean it literally. What I meant to say was that "you just used the word appreciate to be polite and I don't care as to what you say to be polite, I want you to be honest with me". OF COURSE I care how she feels -- which is the whole reason why I threw that tantrum to begin with -- but the problem is that this short sentence had nothing to do with what she feels and instead it was just an evasive reply, which is why I said what I did.

As far as your mention regarding "financial support for my Asperger" I won't do it out of principle. I wouldn't be able to respect myself if I were to do this sort of thing.

"But why would she doubt my interest in her if I was clearly obsessing over her -- as evident from my repeated texts? But then again, as paradoxic as it is, she probably was -- since I was in this situation with other girls too when I was obsessing over them yet they were doubting my interest. And its not like they don't notice that I obsess: they very much do, as evident from the fact that they were annoyed by my obsession. Yet they were annoyed by my obsessing AND doubting my interest AT THE SAME TIME. And thats what I never understood how it is possible. Why, in their minds, would I obsess over something I am not interested in? "

it does seem like a paradox but I've been on the other end of it: obsession (which is unhealthy, frankly) tends to be very intense and short lived. Most women have been pursued hard by an "obsessed" man only for him to drop her upon catching her. Obsession can also veer into the scary for a woman: it's especially suspicious when you don't even really know her and vice versa. She thinks:: He doesn't know the real me, so how can he be so head over heels for me? Her "danger" warning is activated. I once stupidly ignored the warning and ended up with a BF who was obsessive, controlling, and, as it turns out, had BPD.

I am concerned by the level of obsession and desperation you are exhibiting in these interactions. Honestly these are giant turn offs to emotionally healthy women, and I don't think you want someone emotionally unhealthy as a partner

In my case it's not short lived -- as exemplified by the way I can obsess for several "years" about women that I failed at "catching".

As far as "drop her after catching her" part, do you mean he would break up with her or do you mean he would stay in a relationship and simply not put much effort into it? Because in my case, I would never do the former but I had a history of doing the latter. I think it has to do with lack of relationship experience more than anything. I would never knowingly sabotage a relationship (much less leave). But I used to make a wrong assumption that once the relationship started it would just take care of itself without the need of an effort on my part. Now that I had the three long term relationships that I did I know that this is not true. But since I don't get to date that often that's why I only learned it at a late age. Incidentally, not dating often is also a reason why I obsess too: I have scarcity mentality. But, once again, I would never knowingly end a relationship as I wouldn't want to face a pain of single life again.

But what about the guys you talked about? Were they purposely ending a relationship or were they just not putting in effort? If they were purposely ending it, what do you think was their reason to do that? I mean what would motivate them to first obsess about something and then just throw it away?



So are you saying the scary part is not understanding "why"? But, at the same time, you also said that you have many examples of this type of situations many girls had to face. So, logically, if it keeps happening, there have to be some reasons why. Granted, those reasons might only confirm that those are bad guys, such as they are just after sex. But in this case I am different from them since I don't believe in sex before marriage. So wouldn't it be more logical to figure out why I do that, before deciding if it's scary or not? By the way, the answer as to why I do it is that due to my Asperger only very few girls ever give me positive attention, which is why I want to hold on to whatever positive attention I am getting. I was assuming it was obvious to others. But maybe it's not as obvious as I thought. But then they could have asked.

Sex in a relationship is not scary, sex when someone lies and doesn't have feelings is scary. Withdrawal of sex is scarier than both. And generally marriage before sex, as well as to me personally marriage in itself. I don't believe in marriage.

There's nothing shameful about getting state support legally, even if you can do better in the future. It's about the same as your mom giving you money, except the state does. It shouldn't be an issue if you remain aware and motivated that you can do better.

Thats interesting. Usually its the guys that want sex more than marriage and girls want marriage more than sex. But then again, the girl I was talking about in this post is probably similar to you since she also has a very high sex drive and she said she often gets disappointed by guys not wanting sex.

So since you don't want to marry, how about kids? Are you saying you won't have kids, or are you saying you will have kids out of wedlock?



Well, when my mom helps me it doesn't go on my official record, but if the state were to help me it would. Even though that record won't hurt me, I don't want to have it. Just like in graduate school grades aren't that important but I still prefer to have as high grades as possible. For the same reason I don't want that support on my government record regardless of whether it would hurt me or not.

Also, my mom's help isn't conditional on my having disability (she would have helped me even if I didn't have it) but state's help is. Also, its not true that I can't get any job. The only job I can't get is the one of being a professor. With other jobs, I probably "can" get some of them: I am sure I can work in macdonalds. The problem is that I CHOOSE not to have those jobs since they would disract me from my academic career. But thats not the same as saying i can't hold them. A goverment is supposed to support people with true disabilities, not the ones that just make various choices.

When I fall in love my sex drive can last years and never go down except when I sleep, especially when I'm around my interest. You guessed right, I'm childless by choice and I will do whatever it takes to remain that way. I wish you adopt a child, save a life, if you're not.


Can employees see that personal record?

You have autism that will not impede you from getting a job or pursuing your career. Maybe they pay you for your other struggles, such as perhaps overwhelmed if you were to go follow your career and also work a job until you graduate and find the job you're wanting. Your mom isnt able to give you a whole lot of money, such as your credit card runs out and you couldnt go to your future girlfriend's place to meet her. You could let the state help you out. Maybe you did not have a girlfriend in mind, you dont seem yet ready or prepared, especially long distance and meeting. It seems a complicated one at a complicated time for you. Maybe you should take a breather and focus on your career, its much more important right now and the girl seems undecided.

In my case, I want to pass my genes. Since I will die some day I feel like I need to at least have my genes survive by having kids.

As far as saving life by adopting, thats a good point. So maybe I should have one kid of my own and adopt the other one. I do want at least one kid of my own though.



I am not sure.



But thats not what it says. I think it says they are paying for people that can't have a job.



My mom paid "almost" all of my credit card a few days ago. So, from now on, I should just try to be a lot more careful with money so that I don't get into any more debt. I know I can do it, since I get paid for teaching, by the school I am going to (thats how most graduate students make money: they teach undergrads), so I should be more careful on how I spend it.



Yes, I have girlfriend in mind.



What makes you think that?



Well, there are people who have both career and girlfriend. So I want to be able to do that too.

QFT...Dude...Rexi is right...girls hate insecurity...in a nutshell they desire confident and secure partners.

Writing extra long letters might come across as "I'm caring so I like to share" is ok so long as the content is all positive. If there's paragraphs of anxiety it's almost like you are asking this girl to be your therapist. Don't do it (at least wait until you are really close/intimate and then share your insecurities).