Why do almost all 'incels' blame their situation on looks?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Sep 2019, 4:48 am

Do you think sapiosexuals are able to get horny and masterbate by just reading someone's thesis? Hmmm.



Closet Genious
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09 Sep 2019, 4:52 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Do you think sapiosexuals are able to get horny and masterbate by just reading someone's thesis? Hmmm.


Well, maybe if it's a good one. A good thesis might indicate that the male has a promising future, career wise. I think the cancer cure example is actually a bad one, because that would result in extreme amounts of status and possibly a lot of money aswell, and thus clouding whether intelligence in isolation is attractive.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Sep 2019, 4:54 am

Closet Genious wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Do you think sapiosexuals are able to get horny and masterbate by just reading someone's thesis? Hmmm.


Well, maybe if it's a good one. A good thesis might indicate that the male has a promising future, career wise. I think the cancer cure example is actually a bad one, because that would result in extreme amounts of status and possibly a lot of money aswell, and thus clouding whether intelligence in isolation is attractive.


You have a point there but I am not talking about mate selection here but purely about sexual desire, my point that in the "horny moment" I doubt a woman would fantasize about a genius in a laboratory setting.

If that's true, then https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ would be a porn site for the sapiosexuals.



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09 Sep 2019, 4:57 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Do you think sapiosexuals are able to get horny and masterbate by just reading someone's thesis? Hmmm.


Well, maybe if it's a good one. A good thesis might indicate that the male has a promising future, career wise. I think the cancer cure example is actually a bad one, because that would result in extreme amounts of status and possibly a lot of money aswell, and thus clouding whether intelligence in isolation is attractive.


You have a point there but I am not talking about mate selection here but purely about sexual desire, my point that in the "horny moment" I doubt a woman would fantasize about a genius in a laboratory setting.

If that's true, then https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ would be a porn site for the sapiosexuals.


That's true, there's a distinction there. If we're talking purely sexual desire then obviously no. :P



rdos
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09 Sep 2019, 7:22 am

I think you are making sapiosexuality too simple. The problem with sexual behavior and NDs is that it doesn't fit into any label at all, and so people use various labels to escape, like asexual, sapiosexual and even LGT. It doesn't mean that NDs doesn't experience sexual attraction, or that they actually are attracted to intelligence. It only means they are not that interested in typical sex.



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09 Sep 2019, 7:28 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Communication skills are directly linked to intelligence and social status. The most intelligent people have a wider vocabulary, more articulate and re more intelligent than people of below average and average intelligence. It is the lack of intelligence, limited vocabulary and limited communication skills that holds guys back. Intelligence is not easy to improve or change, it is the way it is. Family upbringing and education background play a big role in determining intelligence.

A graduate from an Ivy College or University from Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Oxford, etc with degree(s) in law, medicine, Business, Journalism, etc will posses higher social status, intelligence, communication skills and have a wider vocabulary than a low intelligent thug from the hood.

There's actually a problem here on both ends.

Intelligence causes you to behave in ways that less intelligent people can't map and what they can't map generally gets taken as inferiority unless there's a preponderance of evidence that you're super-accomplished (which in such a socially-generated world that can be a catch-22). That actually counts as a hit to your social skills because what you're doing doesn't make sense and hence doesn't/can't catch. There are little things you can do to grind off the harsh edges of that but it still ends up in introversion, perceived 'lack of confidence', etc.


I find IQ a completely worthless concept. The history of IQ research clearly shows how useless it is. Initially, it was nonverbal traits (Raven) that were used to measure IQ. Nowadays, it's mostly verbal traits, and even social. There are also claims that reaction times correlate with IQ. All of this makes the concept completely useless.



rdos
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09 Sep 2019, 7:37 am

hurtloam wrote:
The "dumb" inarticulate guys probably have the correct body language though.

I'm not into guys I can't understand who use slang, but their peers understand them and the women they're with grew up around other people who talk like that. They understand each other. I hear them on the bus and I haven't a clue what they're saying, but the main thing is that they understand each other.

You don't have to have a private school accent and scintillating conversation, you just have to be on the other person's wavelength and know how to talk about what they are interested in.

Most folks want someone familiar. Most of us here are oddballs and not familiar, therefore, not on their list of stable people.

Me, welk, everyday conversation bores me. Buy everyday guys find my conversation boring. We're just different. I'm not going around calling them dumb for liking every day girls. They just like what's familiar to them.

There's a lot of factors involved. Being interesting can help, but it may not. Depends what you're looking for, depends what they are looking for. Most of us here like discussing different topics, so we will list "interesting" as a priority. Most regular people have a different qualifier for "interesting".

It's complicated.

There's no magic one thing that can be fixed.


That's true.

There is also the factor that what you show in your contact attempts is what people will evaluate, regardless of neurotype. So, if you train yourself to talk to stranger girls, ask them out and have conversations, then you will be evaluated according to NT norms, and that will end in failure. There is no way an ND can gain social competence that outcompetes rivals according to NT norms.

Instead, you need to use methods that potential partners might find interesting, but that will lead to you not being evaluated against NT norms. Being friends first works, because then it is not superficial first impressions that count. Doing flirting the ND way works too unless you sabotage it with asking for a date.



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09 Sep 2019, 7:54 am

rdos wrote:
I think you are making sapiosexuality too simple. The problem with sexual behavior and NDs is that it doesn't fit into any label at all, and so people use various labels to escape, like asexual, sapiosexual and even LGT. It doesn't mean that NDs doesn't experience sexual attraction, or that they actually are attracted to intelligence. It only means they are not that interested in typical sex.


I'm not, it's the "sapiosexuals" who are intellectually dishonest. As most know here, the scientific method relies upon isolating variables to see the isolated effect of each. If someone claims to mainly be attracted to intelligence, that person should be attracted to someone who is unemployed, unattractive, but very intelligent. Anybody with common sense will know that that's very unlikely, and from that it seems obvious that looks, social status, and maybe income are much more important factors, even for the people who claim to be sapiosexual.

I wouldn't trust anyone describing themselves as sapiosexual, I think it's both dishonest and pretentious.



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09 Sep 2019, 8:08 am

Closet Genious wrote:
rdos wrote:
I think you are making sapiosexuality too simple. The problem with sexual behavior and NDs is that it doesn't fit into any label at all, and so people use various labels to escape, like asexual, sapiosexual and even LGT. It doesn't mean that NDs doesn't experience sexual attraction, or that they actually are attracted to intelligence. It only means they are not that interested in typical sex.


I'm not, it's the "sapiosexuals" who are intellectually dishonest. As most know here, the scientific method relies upon isolating variables to see the isolated effect of each. If someone claims to mainly be attracted to intelligence, that person should be attracted to someone who is unemployed, unattractive, but very intelligent. Anybody with common sense will know that that's very unlikely, and from that it seems obvious that looks, social status, and maybe income are much more important factors, even for the people who claim to be sapiosexual-


I don't think that follows. If a woman is attracted to looks, social status and income then she is quite likely NT and don't have to try to fool people about her preferences. It's not primarily NTs with typical preferences that identify as sapiosexual or asexual.



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09 Sep 2019, 9:17 am

funeralxempire wrote:
LookWhoItIs wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
LookWhoItIs wrote:
If incels' personalities are the problem, why do so many men with sh***y, misogynistic personalities get women lol?

Sorry, but if you think every guy who is successful with women respects them as people and doesn't ever have negative thoughts, you're delusional.


Interesting take on what constitutes an off-putting personality.

I think this is an issue that incels can't get their head round.

Attractive personality doesn't equal goody-two-shoes or wholesome and respectful.

Narcissists, for example, can be very charming and win people over, only to show their true colours once they've got someone trapped.

If someone is boring, can't communicate, doesn't look you in the eye, has awkward body language, talks AT you rather than to you, or who you have long uncomfortable silences with... You're not gonna go for him, you're gonna go for the one who you can have easy, enjoyable conversation with... so he listens to rap and he wears baggy jeans and drinks a lot, you can take that because when you get time together he makes you laugh and you have good banter. (Not my kinda guy, but if you grew up with friends like that you'll go for someone familiar).

Personality is more than a cluster of nefarious bad-boy traits.


It's not just narcissistic men I've seen win women over, but also dumb guys who can barely string a sentence together. One thing I keep hearing is that incels have to learn more interests and have to be able to carry on a conversation, but I've known plenty who had interests and could carry on a conversation just fine.

Overall, I just don't like the narrative that suggests incels are full of character flaws, while more romantically successful men have none. Not being able to get a partner does not make you a bad person. Being able to get one does not make you a good person.


Who has suggested that people who are more successful than incels in this regard don't have any personality flaws? That sounds like a stretch. They just don't have the combination of flaws that incels seem to share, or they're better able to mask the ones they have, or they're able to be interesting and form connections in spite of those flaws.

Most incels are mundanely average looking, so insisting looks are the primary cause seems misguided at best.


There were men in every decade that couldn't get laid. Probably a combination of looks, income, personality, circumstance, and just plain luck.

Despite what some people here seem to think, there is an element of "attraction" that's random and is of yet undefined. There's no accounting for it. Some people just "click" while others don't. Certain men (and sometimes women) are dealt bad hands by fate, and we can try to puzzle out why a dude with a bad personality can get laid while another with a bad personality can't, but, sometimes, the whims of the universe aren't in our favor.

The only difference nowadays is we have the internet where unlucky men can get together.


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09 Sep 2019, 9:48 am

It is your opinion that it is random. From my perspective it is incredibly predictable.
And it's just a fact that certain variables correlate very strongly with dating success, and it's not personality and intelligence like certain dishonest people like to claim.



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09 Sep 2019, 10:01 am

Closet Genious wrote:
It is your opinion that it is random. From my perspective it is incredibly predictable.
And it's just a fact that certain variables correlate very strongly with dating success, and it's not personality and intelligence like certain dishonest people like to claim.


Yes, it's my opinion. What else would it be?

It's YOUR opinion that it's "incredibly predictable." Let's not waste time stating the obvious, shall we?


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09 Sep 2019, 10:05 am

Love really is a very random thing at times.



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09 Sep 2019, 10:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Love really is a very random thing at times.


Oddly, both my parents admit that they weren't each other's "types," and the primary reason they got married was because they were bored.

And yet, here I am. Granted, I'm an evolutionary dead-end, but that's besides the point.


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09 Sep 2019, 10:19 am

It might look random at times, but I think it is a lot more predictable than we think. At least if we enter neurotype into the picture.



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09 Sep 2019, 10:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Love really is a very random thing at times.

I think the problem with these discussions is that love or attraction can be seemingly random at an individual level and are quite predictable at a larger scale.
You can often not tell why average looking person A fell in love with average looking person B but not with average looking person C.
You can usually tell which guy among D and E has a much easier time getting casual sex just by looking at them or interacting with them for a moment, if guy D can get casual sex with strangers pretty much whenever he wants and guy E is involuntarily celibate.
You can often not predict which guys who struggle equally much with sex and relationships will eventually end up in a relationship and which ones won't.
If a guy is extremely attractive and enters a room full of people you'd probably be right if you predicted that a lot of the women in there will find him attractive. Your accuracy might be a little less high if you try to predict which ones will be attracted to him and which ones won't.