"But a woman's number of options doesn't matter!"

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DW_a_mom
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09 Sep 2019, 2:05 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

When it comes to dating, the biggest barrier for most people lives in their heads.

That's such an ignorant thing to say to people who have been rejected over and over again.

It's not us stopping ourselves, it's other people saying no to us!

We try and people always say no.

THEY SAY NO. not us.

I'm beginning to feel like it's just not worth talking to certain people about the topic of chronic romantic loneliness.

Because some people have never had anything close to this problem, they have a very hard time understanding where we're coming from, so they make uncharitable assumptions about us to enforce their world view that anyone can get a partner if they want to, because that's been their experience.

For the record, the way that has been read is NOT what I meant AT ALL. This is really frustrating to me. See my other posts for more info.

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Muse933277
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09 May 2022, 12:55 am

Bumpalicious

hurtloam
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09 May 2022, 4:42 am

Quote:

She: "It does matter! Numbers don't matter! What matters only is your confidence and if two click well! Even if she has 1000 other guys chatting her, that won't matter if you are "the one".

I think I have I already responded to this. It's an old thread.

This resonated with me reading it again. People giving advice don't seem to understand.

Things just worked for them, so it'll just work for us.

I've had similar types of advice. I think my health is a huge barrier now. I mentioned that to a friend and she said, "it won't matter if he really loves you."

Hmm, when you've got other choices are you going to take on the burden of a chronically sick partner? People leave long term partners because they get sick, not all, but it's a large number. What saint is going to take on a burden at the outset when many won't stay when sickness develops even if they've had a connection for years.

Some people live in a sugar coated bubble and they just call us negative when we try and explain our actual lived experience.

It's better not to worry about their advice even if it's irritating. Festering over it makes us feel bad, better to move on.

There's nothing worse than not feeling heard though and I understand this frustration. I just don't talk about certain subjects with certain people now.

And I try not to focus on the negatives, but look for other things on my life. The relationship stuff has brought me nothing good. I'd rather spend time and energy on the good things in life

nick007
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09 May 2022, 5:09 am

hurtloam wrote:

I've had similar types of advice. I think my health is a huge barrier now. I mentioned that to a friend and she said, "it won't matter if he really loves you."

I really like your friend's wording there. He has to already love you for it to not matter & love takes time to develop :hmph:

(I wish this forum had a slap emoji cuz ret*d statements like that make me want to slap the person, I def have an idiot problem) Your friend did NOT say anything like "It won't matter to someone who doesn't love you yet but is considering getting in a relationship with you to see if he can". The other stuff in your post is spot on. It's best to consider the source of advice & if they can not grasp where your coming from then their advice might be completely jank for you & it may be best not to seek advice from them.

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hurtloam
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09 May 2022, 6:37 am

The most hurtful "advice" I ever got was:

Show Spoiler

My sister was so angry when she heard that! You are a loving person, she said to me.

Of course, if you're hateful then it's not going to attract anyone, but insinuating that someone just isn't kind enough or caring enough is really cruel. Like do you know about anything I do in life?

I think they thought that I knew I was nice and that's enough, but the fact that I'm always overlooked insinuates that I'm not doing enough loving things. Grrr.

nick007
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09 May 2022, 7:21 am

hurtloam wrote:

The most hurtful "advice" I ever got was:

Show Spoiler

That statement is BS. I've known plenty of cases where someone is very abusive but has little problem attracting very loving romantic partners who bend over backwards doing everything they can for them & make up excuses for the abuse :roll:

& I've also known plenty of loving disabled people & people with various mental issues who majorly struggled to get romantic relationships because others were put off by their problems. I think the average autistic person is more caring & loving than the average NT but we tend to struggle much more with relationships than the average NT. We tend to really try our best but things get misconstrued & come out wrong & others see negative things & put words in our mouths that were never our intent. I really don't get how black & white thinking & lack of empathy are considered autism characteristics when so many NTs are like that towards others not like them :scratch:

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09 May 2022, 9:00 am

I think we have problems expressing how we feel. We feel it and think it's obvious, when others don't actually grasp the depth of what we feel.

Fnord
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09 May 2022, 9:12 am

nick007 wrote:

. . . We tend to really try our best but things get misconstrued & come out wrong & others see negative things & put words in our mouths that were never our intent. . .

People often assume that my intentions are selfish and cruel, when I am just trying to peel back the layers and get to the core of whatever problem is being addressed.

(Like when I pointed out that a stained glass window needed refurbishment, and someone got mad at me for wanting to destroy a piece of art her grandmother had donated to the church. She apparently assumed that I used the word "refurbish" to mean "replace", and she would not listen to any explanation to the contrary.)

In full disclosure, I am one of those people who advises others "To be loved, make yourself loveable". This was sound advice back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s; and it is still sound advice today. But there are people who assume I am talking down to them or implying that they are hopelessly repulsive and totally unworthy of love, which is not the case.

Fnord
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09 May 2022, 9:21 am

Anyway, back to the original post . . .

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

. . . Me: Look...are you telling me that a very unattractive woman who gets 0 male attention in her daily life would have the same pickiness and standards as someone super attractive who gets tons of male attention everyday? . . .

That has been my experience. Maybe the reason she gets 0 male attention is because she has the same pickiness and standards as a more attractive woman, and "everyone" knows it.

Word does get around.

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09 May 2022, 10:03 am

Fnord wrote:

In full disclosure, I am one of those people who advises others "To be loved, make yourself loveable". This was sound advice back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s; and it is still sound advice today. But there are people who assume I am talking down to them or implying that they are hopelessly repulsive and totally unworthy of love, which is not the case.[/color]

But if someone is already lovable that's really insulting. My friend in her mid 30s is a lovely person and she's been overlooked or treated like dirt. It's so sad. Please don't say that to people. It's really hurtful even if you don't mean it to be.

It does imply, even though you do so much and you're exhausted everything you've done so far is sub-par and you need to expend what little energy you have left to be yet even more lovable. And then she does. And she exhausted and she still gets treated like dirt. And she cries and cries and cries.

Fnord
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09 May 2022, 10:16 am

hurtloam wrote:

Fnord wrote:

. . . In full disclosure, I am one of those people who advises others "To be loved, make yourself loveable". This was sound advice back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s; and it is still sound advice today. But there are people who assume I am talking down to them or implying that they are hopelessly repulsive and totally unworthy of love, which is not the case.

But if someone is already lovable that's really insulting. My friend in her mid 30s is a lovely person and she's been overlooked or treated like dirt. . .

While YOU may think she is "loveable", others may not. Plus, she may be making herself loveable only to the wrong kind of man, and completely ignoring all the perfectly "loveable" men around her. Does she date only "Bad Boys" and exclude all the "Nice Guys" who try to get her attention? Yes, there really are women like that -- just as there are men who date only "Gold-Diggers" and then complain to the "Nice Girls" they otherwise ignore that they have been ripped off again.

that1weirdgrrrl
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12 May 2022, 1:26 am

hurtloam wrote:

I think we have problems expressing how we feel. We feel it and think it's obvious, when others don't actually grasp the depth of what we feel.

This resonated with me a lot

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12 May 2022, 2:51 am

hurtloam wrote:

Hmm, when you've got other choices are you going to take on the burden of a chronically sick partner? People leave long term partners because they get sick, not all, but it's a large number. What saint is going to take on a burden at the outset when many won't stay when sickness develops even if they've had a connection for years.

Ain't no saint, but if I loved someone, it doesn't matter if I had to look after them or not from the onset, and said illness wouldn't factor into the feelings. I don't consider it a burden. The same with any "lack" of looks, wealth and/or whatever. There'll be many others out there like me. I dunno why I'm like this, I dunno why everyone isn't (well, I sorta do with the latter, as "weakness" isn't the best for natural selection, but Darwin died with the gun). The most ironic thing being that I see myself as a burden, even though I know I'm not. :eye:

A nice but disabled, "poor" and "ugly" 40 something will be infinitely more attractive to me than a cruel but highly able, wealthy and the best looking 40 something around.

You're correct when it comes to feeling versus showing of emotions in many cases.

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 May 2022, 4:16 am

I've been in two relationships since I made this thread, but I still agree with my old reasoning. People who never struggled in dating (aka. hot looking) will never understand it.

The_Face_of_Boo
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12 May 2022, 4:25 am

sly279 wrote:

Yes similar to how rich people think it’s easy to be rich and anyone can do it cause they never struggled to be rich.

Like when Ivanka Trump wrote a book on how women can be successful and rich. :lol:

Ettina
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12 May 2022, 9:23 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

She: "It does matter! Numbers don't matter! What matters only is your confidence and if two click well! Even if she has 1000 other guys chatting her, that won't matter if you are "the one".

Me: Come on, how does that not matter? of course it does, if she has 1000 other options it means I have 1/1000 chance that she will pick me.

She's not picking at random, though. She might toss out a bunch of those guys immediately because they're obviously incompatible and wasting her time (like all the maledoms and guys who want fetishes I'm not into on FetLife), at which point they may as well not even be on the list. She might not pick any of the guys on the list - for example if she gets frustrated halfway through weeding out the incompatibles and gives up on online dating. Or she might pick the very first one on the list and not even look at the rest.

It really isn't about numbers, and guys making it about numbers make it harder for all guys to find connections. Guys who think like you are likely to send thousands of low-effort messages to women who, if they took any time whatsoever to figure out what they're looking for (eg actually reading the woman's profile - I have my likes and dislikes and the fact that I prefer to Domme clearly laid out on FetLife), would realize they have zero chance with. And then those women get overwhelmed and give up on dating, or else pick the first guy who isn't entirely wasting her time.

And meanwhile, some women go on dating sites and get zero messages.

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