Feeling depressed due to being single at 30

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Snowy Owl
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31 Oct 2019, 10:38 pm

Have you tried going to a Sexual Health/Relationship therapist?

I just turned 40, and two years ago I started seeing one at the suggestion of my Urologist. I don't do well in a therapy setting, but I gave it a try. Initially I was put off by the concept of authenticity and not camoflauging, but it has given me a better understanding of the phrase "time and place." Anxiety issues have lessened considerably, and I'm accepting that the weird me is the best me.

I've learned to go on dates and just be aloof, instead of struggling with conversation and eye contact. I'm currently seeing a very nice lady who has dedicated her life to work and is emotionally unavailable...this is a perfect set up for me. I told her Im an Aspie, and she told me she lives with her sister. I don't really see the link, but we've gone on more dates.

I still struggle with interest in sex and the idea of being normal, but 4 good days a week are better than 0.

Brenet Brown has some good books on authenticity.



Leon_Trotsky
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31 Oct 2019, 11:07 pm

I have had trust issues about therapy and that stuff. I first attended therapy at age 6 (which is probably considered young) on and off up and until age 18. Nothing worked, and it was almost as if I had not attended at all.

I am not even sure what therapists do nowadays. But I do keep getting asked by what seemed to be scammers here in San Francisco. Just yesterday some guy on a different forum sent me a message about how he agrees that SF is notoriously difficult for dating, especially for males, and then offered some sort of dating/relationship therapy website. Website says $60 per session. The wonders of privatised healthcare: exhorbitant prices, knowing that I could probably get this for almost free in Europe if I ever wished to try this type of therapy.

About being aloof, I am more aloof now, since I turned 30 exactly one week ago (last Thursday). I just do not care too much about the result now. Not like it matters, since I only average about one date per year.

I am not sure about your location, but I can tell you right here where I live that basically 100% of all women whom I have met at meetups are not understanding of Asperger's or anything "abnormal", meaning anything that is introverted, non-NT, etc. I am not saying that just the women are like that, I have almost no male friends because the men think similar to the women as well.



Alterity
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31 Oct 2019, 11:09 pm

First, happy belated Birthday and happy Halloween/Samhain.

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
I turned 30 on Thursday. Still a virgin. A bit of anxiety before the last minutes of age 29, but I made it here. Not as anxious, and now I accept the situation as it is.

Whilst it is true that Japan lead the world in terms of older virgins, and that I have seen statistics that almost 50% of all males are virgins past age 30, and close to the same for women, the reactions that these older virgins have, such as buying robot dolls to have sex with instead of actually trying to date in person, makes me think that these older virgins are starting to suffer from serious mental illness such as a personality detachment disorder. I saw various documentaries about Japanese women who "marry themselves", plus Japanese men who are virgins in their 30s who buy robot woman dolls, wheel them around in wheelchairs on dinner dates to restaurants, and then of course take them back home and have sex with them. I admire Japan's openness about older virginity, but I certainly do not want to end up being so desperate that I feel like I have to buy a robot woman doll to be my girlfriend.


In some cases they do try to date but end up too discouraged; which can be fore a variety of reasons. In China; in part of the ridiculous 1 child only policy they had, they are seeing many unmarried men because there are simply not enough women to go around. I some villages it's like 2 men to 1 one woman, so trying to go out and date really is not going to help much.

A tough breakup can create detachment so it's possible that these people may be developing that but without a proper study no one can say it's from being virginal or if it's from some other possible trauma they may have experienced. Or even if it's from having emotionally distant parents. If detachment disorder were from something related to the past it would then be more accurate to say that their virginal status actually could be a result rather than cause. My point is there are possible variables so that I don't think that you necessarily need to worry a lot about potentially developing the disorder yourself.

As far as the the choice to defer to dolls probably has some to do with culture. The Japanese specifically are pretty interesting int he way that one one side they are very restrained and conservative and on the other is EXTREMELY sexually liberal, weird, and wacky. Though the use of dolls *I believe*(from a brief Doc. I saw about it) has been on a rise in general and not of just single can't get a date people. Taking a doll out to dinner like they are an actually person certainly seems... odd/worrisome, but I largely have to defer to the idea that if it's not hurting anyone and those involved are happy then they should be able to do what they like. This is a choice these people are making though, just because they are choosing to go that route doesn't mean you may end up doing so also. You're in a highly populated area, I'd say you have plenty of room to still keep looking for a real woman.

Quote:
I think that you made a good point about in male society, i.e. male friends and male acquaintances circles, men are basically judged by not only their sexual prowess, but more importantly, the actual number of their sexual encounters. Perhaps women do not hear this so often in female friend circles, but in male friend circles, your mates often will brag about having sex with 100+ women or some ridiculous number, only to be lauded by his male colleagues. The amount of peer pressure and peer shaming will show up in one form or another. Eventually when in the group they get to you and ask about you sex life, and you be honest telling them "zero", you can guarantee a verbal lashing on their part. In male circles, you will hear names like "virgin loser", "beta male" and all sorts of insults. I cannot comment on how female virgins feel since I personally would never know, but as a male, carrying this virginity problem is like a giant cross on your shoulder. It is something so deep and painfully embarrassing that you feel like you cannot reveal this to anyone, lest you be a glutton for punishment when your male colleagues will verbally berate you for the rest of your life.


I can't say what really goes on in female social circles as I've typically not been in them Lol When I did here women talk about people they've slept with while I was virgin and while not...my feelings haven't actually changed much. I feel like people overshare that stuff and I don't particularity care to take part unless something in my experience might be of help to someone else. What you say makes sense though. I can totally understand why you would feel less then among other that talk like that. One thing I have never understood about men is their seeming need to verbally trash their buddies. How are these guys your friend when they spend their time picking at your insecurities and making you feel like crap? I'd be dropping them like hot potatoes, because who the hell needs that kind of abuse? It might not be something I can understand, but personally would rather be alone...which is probably why I am xD When within those groups would it not be possible to tell them its none of their business or some sort of snarky comment to get them to leave you be? Most of that stuff that is talked about tends to be just a bravado fest of nonsense, its more about asserting yourself rather than what truth is.

Quote:
To give a bit of an example, my family think similar to these males--virgin = loser. Years ago when I was just a boy, I had a cousin who was in his 20s. He had AIDS, and suddenly he died in his late 20s. I attended his funeral, not really knowing what happened and what that disease was. But it was clear that he got AIDS from sex. I remember something that I still remember now: a conversation amongst extended family. One said, "It is so sad that he died so young of this." Another relative retorted, "It is. But at least he was not a virgin."


I'm sorry but that's just messed up if it was serious. Could it possibly have been an attempt of that person to 'lighten' the mood? As I said in my previous post I very much find that sort of correlation of a persons worth to their sexual prowess very base. Sex is not the end all, be all. There is far more to life and people than that and to restrict peoples worth to that is to say that people are no more than our sexual parts. It's not evolved, it's not all that intelligent, and it's toxic.

Quote:
Just two months ago I was on a date with a woman. Just conversing about how we coincidentally went to the same university in northern England, she suddenly changed the topic. She started saying how she misses Boots (the chemist in the UK) because she got good birth control options when she was there. Condoms, pill, whatever. I was shocked and almost spit out my wine when she started talking about this. Then she asked me about if I ever used Boots for birth control. I said no. She asked why not. I said that I did not really need it since I did not need it in my personal life. After a few back and forth of prodding and poking I eventually was cornered and had to admit to being a virgin at 29. As I cannot read body language properly, I can only guess. But she looked disappointed and just said, "Oh." In my eyes, she had the facial expression of what reminded me of a schoolteacher who saw one of their students fail an exam over and over after giving him/her multiple chances to pass.

So in that respect, to sum up, the people who make these comments are usually from:

1) male friends/male acquaintances
2) extended family on both sides of my family
3) women who ask me during dates
4) women who ask me at meetups if I converse with them long enough and the conversation somehow veers in that direction


Hey you got a date! Maybe it didn't go the way you wanted but you got your foot in the door. It's more than some others here (on this site) have been able to get a hold of.

People are definitely more open to talking about personal things and stuff like birth control with people they just met or don't even know, so you're going to need to hold onto your hat. You're not required to be that open with them though. You have a right to set boundaries for yourself, if there is something you don't want to talk about you can say "I'm not open to dissuading this at this time." They might not like it but it's your right to deny them that information, don't let others conjole and bully things out of you don't want to say. Because unless you are hoping/planning to be intimate with them/her later that night it's none of their/her business right then.

I believe your best bet will be to make use of language. You saying it wasn't something you needed in your personal life wasn't bad. Another possibility might be something like: "I was single mindedly focused on my education/work I had no time for any kind of social life while I was there". It answers the question and tells them what was going on at the time but leaves your virginity status vague. If they push more you can defer to changing the subject, what I said above, or ask a question of your own ("why do you want to know?" perhaps?).

It seems to me that the thing that bothers you is more to do with other people's reactions and judgement upon you than anythings else. I get how that can be hard. For a long time I very much felt like I was kind of 'the disappointment" of the family. What I had to come to terms with is that how they chose to interact with me (if they did at all!) was about them just not knowing an understanding me and they failed to do that because they never took an interest to even really try. How they might judge me is all about them and nothing with my worth. Once I was able to accept that I really stopped giving a damn what they might think. What you do or don't do with your body and your reasons for it isn't something that they get to have a say in or something that is up to debate. Your life, your body, your choices. Maybe you could suggest that they find something of more substance to worry about? =X As for dating; the right woman, someone that is into you will not care if you're a virgin or not. There are some upsides to that like the STD free but it also means the first woman that gets you will be able to tailor you to her preferences. She won't need to break you of bad habits either! Exploration is half the fun.

Quote:
There is only one person close to me who accepts my situation without judgement--that would be my mother. My father is somewhat accepting despite making some negative comments about how I am always single/virgin this long. When she was alive, my grandmother thought that it was good that I was a virgin since I was STI-free and had no unwanted children, plus had the time to keep studying hard in uni.


Sounds like you have/had some smart women supporting you! People set these time lines and then they try to apply them to others. You have to do things in your own time and speed. Why does dad grumble about those things? Is he anxious for grand kids? Is he worried you will spend your life alone or is it all in the silly mentality that "you're supposed to date, have sex and get married"?

Quote:
Aside from virginity/single issue, in terms of other issues that I think that hinder my "dateability" (if that it is even a word), probably would include ASD, social anxiety, generalised anxiety, social awkwardness and perhaps very strange fashion choices. I do have old-fashioned looks, i.e. right now I have 1960s aviator glasses, shoulder-length hair plus retro clothes like plad-grey blazer jackets. Between ages 17-25 I had circular John Lennon glasses and basically copied all of John Lennon's fashion choices, especially the way John Lennon was between ca. 1968 and 1972. If you remember the "hair peace, bed peace" pictures of John Lennon, that was basically my look.


The ASD, awkwardness, and anxiety predominately means you'll have to find someone that is will to work with you/be flexible. There are certain things can be done to help ease anxiety a bit, like grounding exercise and breathing. Otherwise a lot of things related to that are sort of case by case in trying to figure out how to best handle it. As for your style choices there are others like you. Some might think you fell out of a time warp, but more vintage styles are popping back up here and there so I don't think you're going to be super weird that way. It's probably better for you to have a style than to not. I mean sloppy and no attention to ones appearance never presents well to others. The only caution I have to say in that area is that even when we might like a style or something it may not always be flattering on us. I think Cat eye sunglasses are really cool but I look weird in them. Other shapes are more flattering on me and when you're trying to 'market' yourself its typically better to go with what looks best. Anyway, you have gotten a date so that shows you are not un-date-able. Are you Don Juan? Probably not but if you got one you can probably find more.

Quote:
Perhaps also my interests are very different than most other guys. Perhaps also I am hanging out with too many extroverted, neurotypical people. But that it is call I can do here--look for meetups on meetup.com, or Couchsurfing or whatever. And people in San Francisco, where I live, are highly judgemental no matter what. In any case, since I attend these meetups, close to 100% of all women whom I meet are extroverted, gregarious, talkative, heavy party-goers, neurotypical, judgemental on sex/virginity/relationships, not interested in any of my hobbies, etc.


Well going by your education you'd probably fit in and get along better with other intellectual types rather than the extroverted party goer type. I wouldn't say that makes you un-date-able, they just aren't the best match for you. So you are at a disadvantage there as for going the normal routes. Though That might work in terms of making connections, you never know when one of those more extroverted types as a more introverted friend you could end up meeting. But yeah, you might need to find a way to be a bit more creative. Look for local interest group meet ups kind of things and to keep an eye out even when doing everyday things like going to the grocery store. Because everyone at some point has to go and get food. Any possibility of out of state dating? Long distance can be hard but it'd open the pool up.

Quote:
I remember how some guys told me to subscribe to the advice of a "wing girl" who gave small amounts of advice but runs a programme of $99 per month for date coaching.

I still have her subscribed on my e-mail, but the advice sounds very strange. Definitely aimed for neurotypicals. The last e-mail I have is titled something like "Using dark wizardry to attract women" and another one before that is titled "How to bio-hack your dating life". I am not sure if I would ever understand these "techniques".


If a woman were to find about you(or anyone) trying to use "dark wizardry to attract women" I suspect she'd be repelled Lol If you want a silly love spell I will give you one for free heh

So if you made it through this long arse post I hope you found something helpful or at least gave you something to think about. *taps you on the chest with my fist* Don't let other people's superfcial judgements bring you down on yourself.


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Alterity
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01 Nov 2019, 1:25 am

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
However, soon the DJ arrived and loud, blasting music was playing in the venue. The dance floor opened up, and the music was as loud as if I were on the tarmac of an aeroport waiting to board my plane and heard the engines running. Eventually everyone started dancing, including her. I just stood there, as stiff as the Rock of Gibraltar, with people dancing all round me. She then asked me, "What is wrong? Why are you not dancing?", and I just froze. I had a very bad flashback to when I was around 12 years old and at a school dance for students in the last year of my primary school. At that time, the same thing happened-a girl asked me to dance and I froze like a rock. Almost my entire class looked at me, and some male pupils tried to teach me in real time how to slow-dance with the girl. But I could not do it, inviting more embarrassment and ridicule. All of this returned to my memory when the woman asked me to dance during this meetup. I just stood there for over a minute. Then the woman seemed to feel pity for me, and said, "Please, just try to dance." I said, "No, I cannot do this." She said, Just try. Just try. It is not hard. Just give it a try." Again, I froze like a rock. I just stood there for five minutes in my own world, stiff and not moving with everyone dancing round me on the dance floor. Eventually, feeling completely out of place, I quietly left the dance floor and exited the door of the meetup venue. I felt the incident that happened when I was 12 repeating itself just two days after my 30th birthday.

It is during times like these that I feel completely lost in how to remedy my social awkwardness. It certainly is destroying my dating life (or whatever even existed of it).


Quick note on this ^

You experienced a switch into defense mode and shut down. Very common things to happen with ASD. There could be environmental factors like the loud music that created a sensory overload, but my guess is that is was anxiety/fear related. If you can figure out what about having to dance frightened you, you may be able to devise a way you could help yourself to not end up freezing in such a situation.

As someone else mentioned - a therapist would help you with deducting, analyzing, and then coming up with a plan to help remedy these kinds of things.

I've seen someone in the field on and off since I was sucking my thumb and honestly I'm not sure if it did anything or not until I entered my teen years. The change happened because I took an active interest in trying to unravel myself; where as a kid I was largely just talking about stuff around me and didn't really know how I felt or what was or might be going on with me. I had to get a bit more educated and be open. Much of my younger years, especially K-8 I was in defense mode. It's really hard to do personal work, learn or otherwise if you're closed up like a clam.


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Leon_Trotsky
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01 Nov 2019, 2:12 am

Alterity wrote:
First, happy belated Birthday and happy Halloween/Samhain.


Thanks, today marks exactly one week of age 30.

Alterity wrote:
In some cases they do try to date but end up too discouraged; which can be fore a variety of reasons. In China; in part of the ridiculous 1 child only policy they had, they are seeing many unmarried men because there are simply not enough women to go around. I some villages it's like 2 men to 1 one woman, so trying to go out and date really is not going to help much.


I have seen some documentaries about China. Lately from what I understand the Japan effect is taking place there, and tens of millions of men have a choice: either try like hell to keep dating, often in desperation, or to give up completely and go the robot way like in Japan. Apparently Japan are no. 1 in men buying woman robots, and China are now no. 2. I can see how a peasant male in rural China probably would be quite frustrated with the whole dating thing considering the ridiculous gender ratio.

Although there is similarity between China and here where I live--the gender ratio of people around ages 20-40 is horrifically high, and the latest statistics show that where I live have one of the highest, if not the absolute highest, male-to-female ratios in the developed world. I think that the 2020 census would show that around my age group, it is around 70% male at the very least.

Alterity wrote:
A tough breakup can create detachment so it's possible that these people may be developing that but without a proper study no one can say it's from being virginal or if it's from some other possible trauma they may have experienced. Or even if it's from having emotionally distant parents. If detachment disorder were from something related to the past it would then be more accurate to say that their virginal status actually could be a result rather than cause. My point is there are possible variables so that I don't think that you necessarily need to worry a lot about potentially developing the disorder yourself.

As far as the the choice to defer to dolls probably has some to do with culture. The Japanese specifically are pretty interesting int he way that one one side they are very restrained and conservative and on the other is EXTREMELY sexually liberal, weird, and wacky. Though the use of dolls *I believe*(from a brief Doc. I saw about it) has been on a rise in general and not of just single can't get a date people. Taking a doll out to dinner like they are an actually person certainly seems... odd/worrisome, but I largely have to defer to the idea that if it's not hurting anyone and those involved are happy then they should be able to do what they like. This is a choice these people are making though, just because they are choosing to go that route doesn't mean you may end up doing so also. You're in a highly populated area, I'd say you have plenty of room to still keep looking for a real woman.




This is what looks quite weird. The dolls do provide an "easier" way of doing things, but it is still a robot. It is harmless, but the dating problems in Japan need to be addressed to get this problem under control. It is true that I would not end up like that without making a concerted effort to do that route. I would try to improve or at least remedy the situation before I end up approaching my 40s in the same state.

Alterity wrote:
I can't say what really goes on in female social circles as I've typically not been in them Lol When I did here women talk about people they've slept with while I was virgin and while not...my feelings haven't actually changed much. I feel like people overshare that stuff and I don't particularity care to take part unless something in my experience might be of help to someone else. What you say makes sense though. I can totally understand why you would feel less then among other that talk like that. One thing I have never understood about men is their seeming need to verbally trash their buddies. How are these guys your friend when they spend their time picking at your insecurities and making you feel like crap? I'd be dropping them like hot potatoes, because who the hell needs that kind of abuse? It might not be something I can understand, but personally would rather be alone...which is probably why I am xD When within those groups would it not be possible to tell them its none of their business or some sort of snarky comment to get them to leave you be? Most of that stuff that is talked about tends to be just a bravado fest of nonsense, its more about asserting yourself rather than what truth is.


Sometimes when I am in mixed-gender groups talking during meetups, both men and women talk about their sexual experiences without being asked. I am not sure really why they do this, other than to brag and appear "normal", and exclude others who lack the same amount of experience as they do as "abnormal". Or at least, that was what has happened often in my case.

You are right, that is why when I turned 30 I made a pledge to stop listening to male acquaintances like these. I spent most of my time listening to what male acquaintances (and even female acquaintances) said because I was too naïve and too rigid. I always had a natural instinct to believe whatever people told me, no matter how ridiculous it sounded. So now I have stopped interacting with everyone like that from my past. Most people with whom I have interacted are similar to guys like that. Thus I essentially have close to no friends here now.

As to why men insult each other, even friends, honestly as a male I can tell you that I have no idea why. I do not do that to my male friends. My guess is that even though they are friends, there is a subtle competition where one has to appear the manliest. Males like to compete with everyone, even their friends and family. It is not uncommon in male circles for a close male friend to tell another that he is a god-damn virgin loser because he is still a virgin at age 15. Imagine age 30.

Right now if I do encounter anyone like that I will tell them what it is none of their business. If they insist on insulting me I will gladly tell them to piss off. Perhaps my willingness to answer their intrusive questions made them think that they had even more carte blanche to berate me for my lack of relationship history.

Alterity wrote:
I'm sorry but that's just messed up if it was serious. Could it possibly have been an attempt of that person to 'lighten' the mood? As I said in my previous post I very much find that sort of correlation of a persons worth to their sexual prowess very base. Sex is not the end all, be all. There is far more to life and people than that and to restrict peoples worth to that is to say that people are no more than our sexual parts. It's not evolved, it's not all that intelligent, and it's toxic.


I often have problems knowing when people are making jokes and when people are talking seriously. But even though this was over two decades ago, I remember during that conversation that extended family seemed genuinely sad at the situation. When he said, "Well at least he was not a virgin", I do not remember anyone laughing. It was just that kind of still silence where no one really says much thereafter. Judging by their remarks over the years though, it is probable that they were serious. Being a virgin is worse than not being a virgin and having unwanted children. At least in my extended family. That is how they think.

Alterity wrote:
Hey you got a date! Maybe it didn't go the way you wanted but you got your foot in the door. It's more than some others here (on this site) have been able to get a hold of.

People are definitely more open to talking about personal things and stuff like birth control with people they just met or don't even know, so you're going to need to hold onto your hat. You're not required to be that open with them though. You have a right to set boundaries for yourself, if there is something you don't want to talk about you can say "I'm not open to dissuading this at this time." They might not like it but it's your right to deny them that information, don't let others conjole and bully things out of you don't want to say. Because unless you are hoping/planning to be intimate with them/her later that night it's none of their/her business right then.

I believe your best bet will be to make use of language. You saying it wasn't something you needed in your personal life wasn't bad. Another possibility might be something like: "I was single mindedly focused on my education/work I had no time for any kind of social life while I was there". It answers the question and tells them what was going on at the time but leaves your virginity status vague. If they push more you can defer to changing the subject, what I said above, or ask a question of your own ("why do you want to know?" perhaps?).

It seems to me that the thing that bothers you is more to do with other people's reactions and judgement upon you than anythings else. I get how that can be hard. For a long time I very much felt like I was kind of 'the disappointment" of the family. What I had to come to terms with is that how they chose to interact with me (if they did at all!) was about them just not knowing an understanding me and they failed to do that because they never took an interest to even really try. How they might judge me is all about them and nothing with my worth. Once I was able to accept that I really stopped giving a damn what they might think. What you do or don't do with your body and your reasons for it isn't something that they get to have a say in or something that is up to debate. Your life, your body, your choices. Maybe you could suggest that they find something of more substance to worry about? =X As for dating; the right woman, someone that is into you will not care if you're a virgin or not. There are some upsides to that like the STD free but it also means the first woman that gets you will be able to tailor you to her preferences. She won't need to break you of bad habits either! Exploration is half the fun.


I did get a date, but it is not often that this happens. Despite attending around one meetup per week on average, since age 26 I have only been on one date per year on average. None of them worked out. I do feel that I compared myself too much to others, who have basically three or four dates per week. Simple arithmetic would mean that they go on dates over 200 times as much as I do.

I find that when people start changing the subject and veering it right into the sexual category, that often what they are doing are fixing a "normal". What I mean is they are going to go into unsolicited detail about their own experiences. Then using this as a clutch, they will then ask me about my history, comparing it to theirs. Again, I do think that I went along with their questioning too easily. Now I know to just decline to answer. Because every time I answer honestly, they think that I am weird. I suspect that they may be using these questions as a "test" to see if I am "normal" like they are.

I think that I am an "opposite" person in getting to know. What I mean is that it seems that most (NT?) people seem to be easy to get to know, then slowly become either harder to get to know further or when people get to know them, they find out that they are not what they seemed during their first impression and may have unsavoury characteristics. I am the opposite in that I give off a bad first impression, but improve slowly as people get to know me. So on first impressions, they just know that I am this awkward, single virgin nerdy guy with very anticuated, weird glasses and hairstyle. That is their first impression. Most of the time they do not like it. If they ever went further and got to know me more, then they would know that I have three STEM degrees and spend my time on very academic/intellectual hobbies like chess and foreign languages. But since they get put off from my first impressions, they never get to know the positives of me. So maybe I should let them know that I spent a lot of time on university instead of dating like most others do.

You are right that often in the past I was concerned about what others thought about me. Although I was also worried about my own state, because even without their constant criticism, I would actually like to experience the things that are normal and regular for my age.

Alterity wrote:
Sounds like you have/had some smart women supporting you! People set these time lines and then they try to apply them to others. You have to do things in your own time and speed. Why does dad grumble about those things? Is he anxious for grand kids? Is he worried you will spend your life alone or is it all in the silly mentality that "you're supposed to date, have sex and get married"?


The women in my immediate family have been more sympathetic to my situation. My mother is very similarly to myself--she has ASD, several types of anxiety and such, just like me. Due to her own problems, she once told me that she was a virgin until age 27, and that I was born due to her first time. But she said that no female friends berated her back then like how males do that to me.

ASD, anxiety and OCD seem to run in my mother's side of the family. My maternal grandfather was a virgin until he was almost 50 (!). But regarding my father, he comes from a very macho, patriarchal culture. Both my parents are from third-world countries with a heavy dose of institutionalised sexism, so to be considered a proper man, you have to complete several tasks. Like you said, yes, exactly--girlfriend, sex, wife, married, drink a lot, eat huge quantities of meat, be a tough guy and a fighter, etc. My father is from this type of culture and really adheres to it. When I was in university and still single, he would occasionally be like, "Come on, man, seriously, get a girlfriend. You want to be single?" and stuff like that. He also comes from a culture where mental illness is not really respected, but vilified. If you ever had an image of a macho man alpha male who is like a Tarzan who beats his chest and scares everyone with his toughness, eating a huge pork loin and doing push ups every hour, that is basically what many extended family expect of males. And I sure as hell do not follow that type of macho man personality.

And actually my father had not one unwanted child, but three. That is why I have three step-brothers who are almost 20 years older than I am. Abortion is a serious taboo in his side of the family. But basically, his mentality is that if I were not a virgin, messed up real badly and got a woman pregnant, that I would be more respectable than if I were a virgin and had no unwanted children. A very strange mentality from our points of view, but not to his and his family's. But right now he is more or less resigned to the fact that I struggle with relationships and dating. I think that he knows that no amount of criticism would do me any good, so he just tries to accept my situation whilst not truly understanding it either.

By the way, he is anxious for grandchildren on my side, but he already has some--one of my step brothers committed the same error and kept getting women pregnant by mistake. So now he has plenty of grandchildren…

Alterity wrote:
The ASD, awkwardness, and anxiety predominately means you'll have to find someone that is will to work with you/be flexible. There are certain things can be done to help ease anxiety a bit, like grounding exercise and breathing. Otherwise a lot of things related to that are sort of case by case in trying to figure out how to best handle it. As for your style choices there are others like you. Some might think you fell out of a time warp, but more vintage styles are popping back up here and there so I don't think you're going to be super weird that way. It's probably better for you to have a style than to not. I mean sloppy and no attention to ones appearance never presents well to others. The only caution I have to say in that area is that even when we might like a style or something it may not always be flattering on us. I think Cat eye sunglasses are really cool but I look weird in them. Other shapes are more flattering on me and when you're trying to 'market' yourself its typically better to go with what looks best. Anyway, you have gotten a date so that shows you are not un-date-able. Are you Don Juan? Probably not but if you got one you can probably find more.


That is the hard part. Where I am here when trying to do some sort of rough statistical analysis, it seems like there are quite a lot of males here who have ASD and other problems. However, I have met zero women where I suspected ASD. It may be the case that some had it and they mask it extremely well. But from what I experienced, basically all of the women whom I have met over the past few years seemed very neurotypical to me--very gregarious, energetic, extroverted, talkative, and basically always in the "normal" of society. The types of people whom you see on the dance floor that impress everyone and garner attention when speaking in groups during social events.

I am trying to move to Europe sometime in the future, so hopefully the meetups will have less extroverted and less judgemental women attending, and l could have something in common there. But right now where I live it has been pretty hard. The dating scene is known to be very difficult even for neurotypical men, so this problem might also be unique to this location.

Alterity wrote:
If a woman were to find about you(or anyone) trying to use "dark wizardry to attract women" I suspect she'd be repelled Lol If you want a silly love spell I will give you one for free heh

So if you made it through this long arse post I hope you found something helpful or at least gave you something to think about. *taps you on the chest with my fist* Don't let other people's superfcial judgements bring you down on yourself.


I really wonder why I even joined that e-mail list to begin with. I think that I was clueless about dating back then, so I had no idea what seemed right and what seemed wrong. There were also advertisements about how she made a "dictionary" about female vocabulary, and translated it into male speech. I know that dating is difficult, but it cannot be that difficult that it is like learning a second language (based on what I know from learning various languages). As well as a guide on how to read "female body language", as if it were like interpreting hand sign language for deaf people.

In any case, I do not read those e-mails anymore. A lot of advice geared towards neurotypicals sounds seriously weird to me. And if I had to do all that to attract women, I most likely would not even be a good match due to having fundamentally different personalities. Being myself is hard enough, but being someone else is unbearably difficult and a waste of time.



GiantHockeyFan
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01 Nov 2019, 6:30 am

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I think that I am an "opposite" person in getting to know. What I mean is that it seems that most (NT?) people seem to be easy to get to know, then slowly become either harder to get to know further or when people get to know them, they find out that they are not what they seemed during their first impression and may have unsavoury characteristics. I am the opposite in that I give off a bad first impression, but improve slowly as people get to know me. So on first impressions, they just know that I am this awkward, single virgin nerdy guy with very anticuated, weird glasses and hairstyle. That is their first impression. Most of the time they do not like it. If they ever went further and got to know me more, then they would know that I have three STEM degrees and spend my time on very academic/intellectual hobbies like chess and foreign languages. But since they get put off from my first impressions, they never get to know the positives of me. So maybe I should let them know that I spent a lot of time on university instead of dating like most others do.


I can relate to all of this as well. I know it sounds cliché but the best thing to do it just embrace this part of yourself. The right person will see that and be able to look beyond the "first impression" and will love you for you. Took me until 32 and the Mrs. until 38 to find that person. I can be accused of a lot of things but being genuine isn't one of them.



kraftiekortie
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01 Nov 2019, 6:51 am

I bet you meant to say “not genuine.”

You can’t be accused of not being genuine....because you are genuine.



GiantHockeyFan
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01 Nov 2019, 7:44 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I bet you meant to say “not genuine.”

You can’t be accused of not being genuine....because you are genuine.

That's what happens when you rush a post and don't check it over!

One of my biggest regrets was that I "folded" a bit when dating to conform to the average person. Sure I got many more dates but they were an exercise in frustration. When I first started on eHarmony I got very little interest but the quality in general was much higher because my profile, like it or not stood out. Either way, I have no doubt I was meant to meet my now wife and it happened at the right time.

I know it is very hard for the OP to understand, but he should also be embracing that he is 30, never divorced, never had unwanted/unloved/unplanned child(ren), not living with an STD and can go into a relationship with no bad habits. OP also is not tied down to a bad relationship like I was at 30.



kraftiekortie
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01 Nov 2019, 7:48 am

Yep. Can’t agree more.

You’re not encumbered with somebody who’s a pain in the butt.



Oreillomon
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01 Nov 2019, 11:45 am

Me, I feel like nobody can't love me, because I have really difficulties with interpersonal relationships.



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02 Nov 2019, 2:10 am

I’d like a sex robot if they acts and thought like human, but then like women it wouldn’t want anything to do with me and would go find a real man.


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Guy Incognito
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02 Nov 2019, 10:24 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
I have had trust issues about therapy and that stuff. I first attended therapy at age 6 (which is probably considered young) on and off up and until age 18. Nothing worked, and it was almost as if I had not attended at all.

I am not even sure what therapists do nowadays. But I do keep getting asked by what seemed to be scammers here in San Francisco. Just yesterday some guy on a different forum sent me a message about how he agrees that SF is notoriously difficult for dating, especially for males, and then offered some sort of dating/relationship therapy website. Website says $60 per session. The wonders of privatised healthcare: exhorbitant prices, knowing that I could probably get this for almost free in Europe if I ever wished to try this type of therapy.

About being aloof, I am more aloof now, since I turned 30 exactly one week ago (last Thursday). I just do not care too much about the result now. Not like it matters, since I only average about one date per year.

I am not sure about your location, but I can tell you right here where I live that basically 100% of all women whom I have met at meetups are not understanding of Asperger's or anything "abnormal", meaning anything that is introverted, non-NT, etc. I am not saying that just the women are like that, I have almost no male friends because the men think similar to the women as well.


Therapy is hit or miss. You have to find a therapist and style that works for you. CBT is the gold standard, and I don't thing it works well for Asperger's issues.

I know it's a cliche, but you need to focus on you to attract others. Make an honest list of the things you dislike about yourself, and figure out how you can improve on them. Be the best version of you, and you'll attract women. Asperger's can be an asset. Strong Silent Archetype is a total Aspie description. Unless someone brings up Minecraft.

Depression is like the swamp of sadness in Never Ending Story. It sucks, but it feels comfortable because it is easy to validate. And then you get stuck and don't want to get out. If you walk around acting sad, no one is going to want to cheer you up.
I struggle with being lonely, but I focus on things that I like and fitness. That makes me more physically appealing and interesting to someone that shares similar hobbies. Some women do not like me and think I'm weird. Some do like me and think I'm weird. I like me, and my dogs like me, and that is what matters.

It may seem like you'll never meet someone, but 0 is an absolute percentage, and absolutes are nearly impossible. I had the same mindset, but I also found that I was looking for a girl made of unobtainium. I was intentionally setting goals I couldn't achieve so I would fail. I recently went out with a ND lady that met all the criteria. She had a similar job, nice personality, great shape, and very attractive...but her interests and my interests were very different and we didn't mesh at all. Our only common traits were superficial. A decade ago I would have thought she was the one and would have tried to make myself a version that would appeal to her, but I know myself better now than I did a decade ago. That would just leave me unhappy.


Ive found that if you are in good shape and a decent person, the dating pool opens much wider as you get older. Women that have already been burned are trying to start fresh, and being a virgin or quirky isn't as serious as you make it.

I am in the DC area, and almost everyone is superficial. But almost everyone isn't everyone
There are still plenty of available women that just want to meet someone nice.

Have you tried Meetup? They let people set up free events for specific interests. I met a lot of women doing Goruck Challenges and Urban Exploration.



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03 Nov 2019, 1:35 am

The dating pool shrinks as people get older. There are more single people in their 20s and more options. 20s are the prime dating years for both men and women. In your 30s or 40s, more people have paired up, the options have diminished. No amount of self improvement or hobbies/interests will change things when you get older and it feels like you have missed out.

Dating is a lot harder in the modern world than it was in the good old days when people paired up and married at a younger age. Marriages lasted longer and there were lower divorce rates back in the good old days. People are having fewer children and marrying at an older age than previous generations.

Online dating provides a paradox of choice, there appears to be more options but there is no perfect match. Go on blind dates of meeting randoms but no chemistry/spark and a better match is only a click away on a dating site.



Leon_Trotsky
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03 Nov 2019, 2:15 am

Guy Incognito wrote:
Therapy is hit or miss. You have to find a therapist and style that works for you. CBT is the gold standard, and I don't thing it works well for Asperger's issues.

I know it's a cliche, but you need to focus on you to attract others. Make an honest list of the things you dislike about yourself, and figure out how you can improve on them. Be the best version of you, and you'll attract women. Asperger's can be an asset. Strong Silent Archetype is a total Aspie description. Unless someone brings up Minecraft.

Depression is like the swamp of sadness in Never Ending Story. It sucks, but it feels comfortable because it is easy to validate. And then you get stuck and don't want to get out. If you walk around acting sad, no one is going to want to cheer you up.
I struggle with being lonely, but I focus on things that I like and fitness. That makes me more physically appealing and interesting to someone that shares similar hobbies. Some women do not like me and think I'm weird. Some do like me and think I'm weird. I like me, and my dogs like me, and that is what matters.

It may seem like you'll never meet someone, but 0 is an absolute percentage, and absolutes are nearly impossible. I had the same mindset, but I also found that I was looking for a girl made of unobtainium. I was intentionally setting goals I couldn't achieve so I would fail. I recently went out with a ND lady that met all the criteria. She had a similar job, nice personality, great shape, and very attractive...but her interests and my interests were very different and we didn't mesh at all. Our only common traits were superficial. A decade ago I would have thought she was the one and would have tried to make myself a version that would appeal to her, but I know myself better now than I did a decade ago. That would just leave me unhappy.


Ive found that if you are in good shape and a decent person, the dating pool opens much wider as you get older. Women that have already been burned are trying to start fresh, and being a virgin or quirky isn't as serious as you make it.

I am in the DC area, and almost everyone is superficial. But almost everyone isn't everyone
There are still plenty of available women that just want to meet someone nice.

Have you tried Meetup? They let people set up free events for specific interests. I met a lot of women doing Goruck Challenges and Urban Exploration.


I am trying to mitigate feeling depressed with my situation by letting go of reservations about the weirdness (according to societal norms) that I have. I feel like when I turned 30 I just started to stop caring, at least as much, about my past and my situation, compared to when I was in my 20s.

I honestly have no clue what women think of my physique. I am not fat, and actually have been underweight for most of my life. I am about 178 cm (5'10") and weigh around 75 kg (165 lb). Whilst not some sort of muscleman, I do a little bit of regular weight lifting, mostly bench press and bicep curls. I try not to obsess about muscles like when I was a teenager, and I would probably not even date a woman who were obsessed with muscles either. But still, I have at least a little bit of upper body muscle mass. Whether it shows or not, I do not know, because I usually wear jackets indoors and long-sleeved shirts.

I used to make myself more "appealing" like you said, when I was in my 20s, but realised that this mindset is just wrong from the start. Pretending to be another person is just asking for trouble, and long-term would eventually lead to being in a wrong relationship whilst continuously trying to be someone else. Right now I stopped caring. I just be myself, no matter if anyone likes it or not. I have uncommon interests and act weird as hell, almost like a robot stuck in a human shell. But I just go on like usual. Every time I try to be more like a "normal" person it does not work, because I eventually show my weird self so it looks like I am an awkward actor trying to look normal and do normal stuff.

Where I am it is a strange phenomenon, but people in their 30s and 40s act like they are in high school many times. I have already gotten comments from women in their late 20s, plus 30s and 40s in the past about the "rule" that virgin = undateable. It is like some inviolable rule that they hold dear to themselves. I have trouble making friends with anyone here, because, as stupid as it sounds, a lot of people in their 30s and 40s act like they are freshers in university, and/or still in their fraternity/sorority. Acting stupid like putting post-it notes on people's backs, pouring drinks on people for fun, gossiping by whispering with one hand covering one's mouth, etc. is quite common amongst people in their 30s and 40s. I honestly feel like I got transported back into high school or university when I meet people. And to make it worse, I am a very rigid, oldschool person who acts like a 70 year old. So it is basically I feel like a 70 year old getting mixed in university students.

I do attend meetups from meetup.com, but like I wrote above, I meet people who are really quite immature and very "normal". They do not like me, and I do not like them. And due to their propensity to gossip, word gets round about how "weird" I am. So increasingly more people start avoiding me and/or talking shite about me behind my back. Sometimes I feel like the only way to get a real change is to move to Europe like I am planning.



Guy Incognito
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03 Nov 2019, 9:07 am

Europe uses the metric system and puts a U after every O. Madness.



Leon_Trotsky
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03 Nov 2019, 10:26 am

Well I do too, so I would fit in.