Statistics that makes me enraged

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Twilightprincess
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02 Dec 2019, 8:38 pm

QFT wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Doing a cold approach would be hard from a social perspective.


Then maybe I misunderstood what you were suggesting. I thought you were suggesting I do cold approach -- which is why i disagreed. But now that I see you disagree with cold approach too, what "are" you suggesting then?

You say you suggested friendships first. Well, I don't get any female friends either. So that goes back to the question: why don't women ever start friendships with me?


I thought you were speaking of the cold approach. Whether or not you are looking for a date or a friend, most of the advice still applies...



Twilightprincess
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02 Dec 2019, 8:40 pm

Dog1 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Dog1 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Dog1 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Would you be attracted to a woman who was disheveled and smelled bad if you knew nothing else about her?

I don’t mind disheveled but body odor would be a huge turn-off.

Before someone actually gets to know you, all she has to go by is appearances. That’s just how it works. One thinks that if someone is “put together” he or she might likely be put together in other aspects. It’d be a different story if we could read minds. Then again, I’d still be turned off by BO...

Why is this unfair? We all tend to have equal opportunities when it comes to bathing and wearing presentable clothes (clean, matching, no holes, etc.). I do fairly well even with primarily shopping at thrift stores.

If you have trouble remembering, you could set reminders in your phone or use post-it notes.


If the woman is beautiful/hot then her disheveled look and her body odor would be irrelevant. :D

Plus many women have boyfriends/husbands who have bad body odor at times - so I don't see how it makes a difference.

Humans are supposed to have instincts for finding mates created from ancient times - the same ancient times where everyone's body odor stunk.

If the man/woman is attractive, then body odor should make no difference.

Maybe they've been cleaning/running around? How would bad body odor on a chance encounter make any difference at all?


I’m not having sex with a boyfriend or husband who stinks.

If the guy I’m with smells and has no intention of bathing anytime in the near future, I’ll tell him to take a shower. The last thing I’d want is smelly furniture. I know this from experience.

If a man won’t bother to bathe before an initial date, there won’t be a second one.


Giving him a chance, makes sense. :D

But excluding him based on his body odor on the first encounter, does not make sense.


Unless he was just out in the woods hiking or fishing or mowing his lawn, he better smell good, especially if this is a first date. No excuse for BO on a first date.

If he’s smelly on the first date, he’ll just be smellier later on.

No second chances without reasonable extenuating circumstances (water pipe burst, family emergency, etc.).


I'm not talking about being on a date.

I mean a random chance encounter where you meet him for the first time. :D


That wouldn’t be too bad, especially if woods or lawn mowing were involved.

In any case, I’d develop a friendship before I started dating.



QFT
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02 Dec 2019, 8:46 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Unless he was just out in the woods hiking or fishing or mowing his lawn, he better smell good, especially if this is a first date. No excuse for BO on a first date.

If he’s smelly on the first date, he’ll just be smellier later on.

No second chances without reasonable extenuating circumstances (water pipe burst, family emergency, etc.).


In my case the "extenuating circumstances" is that I didn't know about it. Well, like I mentioned, I learned about it 5 years ago, so I always made sure to shower ever since. But what about all those dates back in my 20-s? I was sitting over-analyzing how they went wrong, where I said something wrong, etc. etc. etc. But what if it was as simple as the fact that I didn't shower -- and it never even occurred to me? I really wish I was told this and given a chance to fix it.

Actually, in case of my first ex, I remember she was avoiding taking me to meet her friends and I kept complaining about it. Finally, in response to my complaints, she decided to take me see her friends. Then she said "but please take a shower, its not much to ask". Then I remember a different example, this time it was my roommate -- and no, we didn't date, we were just friends -- and she decided to invite me to see her family (on her own, without any prompting from my side) but she said I better take a shower. Then, shortly before the meeting she asked me "so did you take a shower" I said I forgot. She said "but I told you to" and then she had me take a shower and use her soap (apparently I didn't have mine).

So I wish other girls were to act similarly. Instead of rejecting me, I wish they were to teach me to shower.



The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 9:24 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I don’t approach, but I don’t really like being approached, either. I think it’s best to develop friendships first that could lead to something else.

Doing a cold approach would be hard from a social perspective. Being weird and awkward wouldn’t usually work out very well in such a scenario.

I’ve pretty much always had friendships first. I’ve never accepted a date situation from a stranger. They were usually weirdos or, at least, appeared to be.

A weird, quirky friend is cool and interesting, but a weird, quirky stranger could be threatening.

“No, I don’t want to go for a ride with you on your bicycle.” LOL I was 15. Geez!

Good tip: Don’t ask women you don’t know to go for a ride on a one-seater bicycle. (I’m not sure how that would’ve worked. It didn’t have those trick bar things on the back wheels.) :P

One can find loads of practical wisdom on WP.

If you're starting from a place of not having any friends of the opposite gender whom you'd consider a romantic prospect, and your priority is getting a romantic relationship, the friends first thing isn't the best strategy, because there's just so much that can go wrong with it. It's especially unappealing to guys, because we're the ones who are going to have to figure out how to go about elevating the friendship to a relationship, and risking an awkward and painful rejection in the process.

The friends first thing can work if a relationship isn't really a priority and you want to make new friends and just happen to meet someone you vibe with, but for those of us who are looking for a relationship specifically, and are less interested in friends, the friends first strategy brings with it a lot of things that can go wrong.

If I'm going to be rejected, I'd rather it be by someone whom I have minimal emotional investment in rather than someone I've spent months getting to know and like.

I would agree that cold-approaching is generally untruthful, and should only be done by those who are ok with being rejected a lot.

I think if we're talking a real-life setting, like an interest group or something, the sweet spot for trying to see if there's any romantic potential there is after youve established m rapport with the person and they have a base level of comfort or trust around you, and after you've gotten to know a little bit about them, but before you become close friends. Probably the transitional period from acquaintance to friend is a good time to ask I think, but it depends on a variety of things.

Personally, I probably wouldn't ask a woman out unless I perceived that she might be interested in me in that way, because I'm at a point where rejection really hurts, and it'd only be worth risking being hurt like that if I thought there was a chance that it might result in a favourable outcome.

But I'm not meeting any new women anyway, so this is all hypothetical.



Last edited by The Grand Inquisitor on 02 Dec 2019, 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 9:29 pm

The "friends thing" will help a man understand women better. No doubt about that.



The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 9:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The "friends thing" will help a man understand women better. No doubt about that.

Could do, but I think being friends with someone you really wanted to date would be super difficult if that option wasn't on the table. I'd probably benefit from accruing more platonic female friends, but I don't really give myself any opportunities to meet people, and I wouldn't know where to meet like-minded women.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 9:41 pm

I've had quite a few Platonic friends whom I wanted to date. And it was frustrating.

But I did learn a lot about how to relate to women. I had to learn all this in order to keep my relationships from dying a certain death.



martianprincess
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02 Dec 2019, 9:53 pm

I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.


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kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 10:07 pm

It’s because of our society. Our social mores.



The Grand Inquisitor
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02 Dec 2019, 11:34 pm

martianprincess wrote:
I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.

In short, because they aren't generally required to in order to have a love life. I'm sure a good portion of men wouldn't ask women out either if they didn't have to in order to have a love life, but we do.

If I never ask a woman out or make the first move, I can almost guarantee that I will be single forever. If a woman never asks a man out or makes the first move, it generally won't matter because at some point, a man will ask her out.



Marknis
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03 Dec 2019, 8:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've had quite a few Platonic friends whom I wanted to date. And it was frustrating.

But I did learn a lot about how to relate to women. I had to learn all this in order to keep my relationships from dying a certain death.


I went through this with my female ex-friends. One was polyamorous but I didn’t qualify and the other was in denial about her love for hyper aggressive alpha males.



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03 Dec 2019, 9:05 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s because of our society. Our social mores.


That sounds fascinating - could you elaborate a bit? Thanks! :D



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03 Dec 2019, 9:07 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
martianprincess wrote:
I'm just going to chime in here and say that a good portion of women won't make the first move. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.

In short, because they aren't generally required to in order to have a love life. I'm sure a good portion of men wouldn't ask women out either if they didn't have to in order to have a love life, but we do.

If I never ask a woman out or make the first move, I can almost guarantee that I will be single forever. If a woman never asks a man out or makes the first move, it generally won't matter because at some point, a man will ask her out.


Very true and accurate. :thumright:



kraftiekortie
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03 Dec 2019, 9:41 am

It's pretty simple, actually.

Women are reluctant to "make the first move" because it is seen as being rather risky to their dignity.

Because of notions which continue to this day--notions which are not necessarily actually true. There is the sense that a woman who "makes the first move" is somehow "aggressive" and "acquisitive." And not "modest" enough.

Within the vast majority of societies, even "primitive" ones, I find that if a man waits for a woman to "make the first move," the man will inevitably be "left hanging."

Like I said, I am a man of below-average height, and "cute" sorts of looks. And socially awkward. I've never, in my 40 or so years of "active dating life" been approached by a woman for the purpose of any sort of "date or "hookup" or "wanting to get to know you better." It just has never happened. I've always had to "make the first move."



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03 Dec 2019, 9:47 am

:roll: It never ceases to amaze me how many men presume to 'know' what motivates women, when women themselves don't even seem to know.  If men truly knew what motivated women, there would be no lonely men, and no man would ever again complain that women pay no attention to them.


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