Do women simply just dislike Aspie men?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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26 May 2020, 12:59 pm

^^ Poor Teach51, your questions set requires a phd thesis.



techstepgenr8tion
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26 May 2020, 1:15 pm

Lol, I get it - and quite likely she doesn't have great or perfect answers, I am curious to get an NT perspective on it though. Admittedly I've got 'civilization is collapsing' on the brain a bit more than finding a partner although if I could be of more use to society by finding the right partner or have more doors opened to be useful (productively rather than exploited) I'm still for it.


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Teach51
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26 May 2020, 1:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Teach51, I did have a quick few questions since it seems like you're tying to field a lot of missing information.

If there's anything I've had drummed into me, especially in the last 20 years, it seems like most people are out to value-gauge each other. It's a bit like the very point is for people to ignore and overlook personal qualities and cultivation, and like many other places like in the work market and anywhere else the hustle is about meeting a new person, pulling out the most arcane measuring stick, measuring that person shoulder to shoulder with it, telling them that they're a midget and that it's on you to prove them wrong. The closest analogy I can think of is if someone goes to a used car lot, slams the car to the salesman, makes all kinds of disingenuous guesstimates and claims about what's probably under the hood or on the frame or underbody, and when the salesman opens the hood the would-be buyer refuses to look and still adamantly adheres to their initial pronouncement that the car is worth something like 20 cents on the dollar for the sales price. This doesn't seem to be just an aspie problem, it's much more universal.

Where I think aspies tend to fall down, ie. the pervasiveness of bad-faith social games. To anyone who knows what the requirements are of staying sane, healthy, and productive in society it means squaring your inner life and taking these people seriously and trying to graft any model of our inner lives onto their assessments seems like a call for self-injury, ie. it's a no go to engage their value judgments (to do otherwise is a bit like pouring an ashtray into your brain and heart every day).

My questions on that would be:

1) Can you think of any social loop holes where people can show their best traits and meet people who are trying to find someone who matches them well rather than being a completely fungible commodity (the 'insert girlfriend here' or 'insert boyfriend here' common approach)?

2) What's the best way to, even if you sure as heck wouldn't date them, wrangle some kind of understanding out of all of the bad actors out there where potential parters aren't thinking 'You know, he/she has a lot of redeeming values but wow do they have a bullseye on their back for them'? My best efforts have been to gray-rock narcissists and when I run into other sorts of people who don't feel comfortable with anyone who isn't precisely like them without dominating them - I have to let that mix like oil and water within the parameters of what social disagreement is allowed to look like. I'll be as polite to people as I can be but no more, and I'm wondering if there might be anything else in the equation I'm missing? The only other thing I can add - there are rare opportunities if someone doesn't like me and needs help to bail them out without them knowing I did it but even those - with everyone watching their backs and competing against one another - seem to be very rare indeed.

3) Do you think there's any hope of this sort of culture being cleaned up before the much more even-keeled portion of NT's get run out of the population by refusing to run that race? This actually worries me more than whether or not I even end up dating - I have a lot of interests, can stay quite busy, but it would be a sinking feeling to consider that the world around me is burning (which then makes me feel like - if I myself am not having kids - that I'm then part of why the sociopaths are winning).


To answer question 1 techstep I would suggest getting involved in an altruistic cause that would attract like- minded individuals who share the same value system as you do. Something that would fulfill you and at the same time create the opportunity to help the disabled or disadvantaged. Not save the planet or political groups because they attract anarchists and extremists ( nothing against them) but rather a project that involves giving of yourself for the benefit of others. People who are repulsed by the hedonistic current trends and find no meaning in realityTV or the hideous culture that most people are being sucked into, often try and find a way to express themselves altruistically. They volounteer in hospitals or hostels, institutions for the mentally disabled. There should be other volunteers there that are kind and have the ability to think as you do, to contribute rather than exploit that seems to be the norm. My son has volunteered often in an institution for the disabled. He is a musician (among other things) and he sings songs with them and they have a really good time. He has met many nice girls there who feel the need to give as he does. These type of girls/ guys see a persons' essence and respect integrity, modesty, creativity, empathy, generosity. They have rejected mainstream culture to an extent. Hope I have answered your question.

2. To be honest I don't understand your phraseology too well, are you American? I think that America must be a very tough place to live. We have a saying in Israel "be suspicious of all and respect all." Aspies are at a great disadvantage by not picking up on sarcasm or ridicule, nastiness and manipulation and also the positive subtleties of romance and intimacy. You sound like an extremely nice person. Treat everyone as a potential enemy until they prove otherwise.Don't share detailed personal information and answer their questions with a question, and smile. I do the same. The nice ones will reveal their true worth eventually.

3. The world is going to get a lot worse before anything changes in my opinion. I won't burden you with my unorthodox beliefs but I think that humanity is on the path to self-destruction by exploiting each other and the planet. I have created my own insular, enclosed healthy environment and only sustain relationships with people who share my values. I interact as much as I need to with society but have minimal involvement with the mainstream. My country is much more tolerant of eccentricity and diversity than many. It is rare to find intolerance of the disabled, both physical or mental, the opposite, we are a nation of volunteers for every altruistic cause. Politics is a different matter and creates great discord and conflict.
I believe that the world will suffer many more natural disasters before we are humbled into re-evaluating our priorities as human beings in the integral system of nature. Many people have changed as a result of Corona, not significantly but it has brought us to a halt and brought us back home, to family values and forced us to think of the well being of others for a while at least. Anyone who will befriend you techstep will be blessed. You are lovely. Hope this is clear, I have ADD and lose my clarity in lengthy posts.


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Teach51
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26 May 2020, 1:35 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^^ Poor Teach51, your questions set requires a phd thesis.


Absolutely Boo :D I am not sure if I have actually understood the questions to be honest.


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techstepgenr8tion
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26 May 2020, 1:52 pm

Teach51, TY for giving those an honest try - and like FoB said they weren't easy, I just didn't want to ask questions that didn't matter to me and it's rare that the questions that matter much are easy.

Teach51 wrote:
3. The world is going to get a lot worse before anything changes in my opinion. I won't burden you with my unorthodox beliefs but I think that humanity is on the path to self-destruction by exploiting each other and the planet.


My own views are a bit unorthodox (ie. Hermeticism meets Spinozan panentheism meets Donald Hoffman's Case Against Reality). Here in the US I can't help but get the impression that there's some type of scarcity that either no one can quite put their finger on that's coming up in strange ways in the economy and that squeeze is turning everyone on each other or it very well could be the rather well-hidden side effects of us overconsuming our biological substrate. On one hand there's the issue of automation and employment, and even the rich working harder and harder not to lose the race, I'm still hoping I can actually figure out one of these days what it is that's invisibly crushing the container we're in. While I do think religion does a fair job of holding back a lot of the worst social defection behaviors (and from the time frame Christianity came to dominate the Roman Empire I can't help but think that it was far better than the alternative - ie. pagan emperors having garden parties with human torches) I still get the sense that most religions best fit the frame of spiritual development technology (much like martial arts and sports are a form of physical and neurological training) and I think it would, likely does, say quite sad things about what we are if most of us do need to believe in eternal punishment to do the right thing rather than what seems like it should be obvious - ie. that personal action adds to or subtracts from the quality of the world one gets to live in and damaging that world is like spitting into the wind, if not for ones self at least for one's children and grandchildren.


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techstepgenr8tion
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26 May 2020, 1:59 pm

On a side note, back to the cultural stuff and sort of with 1), I'm increasingly getting curious about the GameB that people like Jim Rutt and Jordan Greenhall are proposing. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping something more gets spun up from that than just a bunch of people chattering on Facebook.


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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin


sly279
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26 May 2020, 4:31 pm

Pepe wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
If I was an aspie man here's what I would do:

I would go and volunteer in an animal shelter, or if I was religious I would do something to help the needy that was affiliated to my place of worship or some other cause I was passionate about requiring compassion and empathy . I would express my compassion in a practical sense if I couldn't verbalize it. I would think there would be a fair amount of smart, caring women volunteering also who I could get to know more than superficially for a lengthy period of interaction who would grow to love, my aspie attributes.

That's what I would do.


Yup,
Religious women may be easier pickings. :mrgreen:
My first "girlfriend" was driven by compassion, through her religious indoctrination.

I would also recommend hobby courses and interest groups such as logic classes, bushwalking or arts and crafts, etc, after the CV event.
In the past, I have recommended local autism groups.

Joining an activity which is of interest to "you" is a possible win-win situation. :wink:


Hobby courses are expensive. I’d rather spend $300 on console I can use for years then on one pot making class.


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The Grand Inquisitor
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26 May 2020, 6:41 pm

Teach51 wrote:
If I was an aspie man here's what I would do:

I would go and volunteer in an animal shelter, or if I was religious I would do something to help the needy that was affiliated to my place of worship or some other cause I was passionate about requiring compassion and empathy . I would express my compassion in a practical sense if I couldn't verbalize it. I would think there would be a fair amount of smart, caring women volunteering also who I could get to know more than superficially for a lengthy period of interaction who would grow to love, my aspie attributes.

That's what I would do.

What if you're just not that type of person?

To be completely honest, I don't feel enough empathy to motivate me to get out there and help animals, poor people, the disabled or whatever it is, and I honestly don't think I'd get much satisfaction out of doing those things. If I was to do anything to address these situations, and I had all the necessary information, using my brain to try and come up with practical solutions to these problems would be a lot more in line with where my strengths are, and what I'd get personal satisfaction doing than actually going out and helping people. I'm a lot more logical than I am empathetic.

And if I did try volunteering in order to get a girlfriend, the moment I got a girlfriend, I'd stop, which might strike her as strange and expose the true reason I was volunteering in the first place. If I didn't get a girlfriend from it, I'd just be resentful about doing it/having done it and not getting what I wanted out of it.

Maybe I come across as a bad person or whatever, but I've gotta be honest.



cyberdad
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26 May 2020, 7:07 pm

I'm introverted NT but Teach51 is an extroverted NT and her advice is excellent

Volunteering for an animal shelter, environmental project or joining an art class are excellent ways of meeting girls who teach mentioned are the nurturing/caring type of personality.

I'm married but I have gone to free life coaching seminars and had girls looking to broaden their life wanting to meet new people come up to me. Life coaching is another way to meet single girls (married or dating girls rarely go to a life coach)



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26 May 2020, 7:10 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
And if I did try volunteering in order to get a girlfriend, the moment I got a girlfriend, I'd stop, which might strike her as strange and expose the true reason I was volunteering in the first place. If I didn't get a girlfriend from it, I'd just be resentful about doing it/having done it and not getting what I wanted out of it.


Valid point, you need to have shared passions so it would be hard to maintain if you were faking it. I think the point teach is making is do it for altruistic reasons. If I didn't have personal commitments then I too would volunteer my time (not to meet girls) to give back to the community.



cubedemon6073
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26 May 2020, 8:02 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
No, some guys here seem to think women only look for good- looking, wealthy, successful, tall men. Some do but many don't. Not all women run with the herd.


If a = b and b = c therefore a = c

a = women
b = preference for looks/height/wealth/status
c = herd mentality

I've been on the earth for more than half a century and out of several thousand couples I have come across in my life I have maybe come across 2 where the girl/woman dated/married "down" and a handful where the girl/woman earned considerable more than the man. By and large 80-90% of people I remember the man earned more than the woman and was in most cases the breadwinner.


I know many couples where husband and wife earn equal pay and some where the wife earns more. Self-confidence or lack of might hold some people back. People with very severe handicaps can find partners if they can exit this loop of statistics and take a leap of faith.


Outliers are part of the statistics science too, Teach.

Outliers often happen due to pure luck.

But when statisticians study a graph they don't make their conclusions based on Outliers.


Teach, Boo is right. They don't make their conclusions based on outliers. Boo, I'm not sure if it is due to pure luck. Maybe it is.

Teach, if it is so possible to take the leap of faith to exit the loop of statistics then why hasn't the majority been able to do it no matter what the statistic analysis was whether it was relationships, employment or something else? For me, I took the leap of faith for employment and I'm in China now. Hopefully everything works out but for the majority of those with ASDs how often does it really work out? Same thing with relationships. And, as a caveat 50% or more marriages in the USA end in divorce.

Let's say we have a village with 20 houses. A hurricane comes and destroys 19 out of 20 houses. After the disaster people are calling it a miracle that one of the houses is still standing. This person had enough faith for his house to still survive the storm. But, what about the 19 out of 20 who had the same amount of faith. They prayed to God like this 20th guy did. Why did his house stand but the other 19 did not?

Same concept with relationships and employment as well. How much faith, positivity and confidence does one have to have to make things work? How do we measure this? Even if faith, positivity and confidence is necessary then sufficient? In other words, as an analogy it is necessary for a computer to have power to start and run but even if the computer has power will the computer be guaranteed to start and run. Can one have faith, positivity and confidence at the level grain of a mustard seed as the Bible says and fail consistently at something time and time again?

I would propose a challenge to anyone on here. Find me a statistical study in which the study remained consistent for years that it was done and the majority of the people were able to get the faith, positivity and confidence required for whatever and the next time the study was done there was a 180 degree turn.



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26 May 2020, 8:08 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Thank you.

My stinky friend. *cough* Jeez... how any girl can come close to you like this.


As I said,
I have had my anal glands removed.
No stinky anymore. :wink:



Pepe
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26 May 2020, 8:12 pm

sly279 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
If I was an aspie man here's what I would do:

I would go and volunteer in an animal shelter, or if I was religious I would do something to help the needy that was affiliated to my place of worship or some other cause I was passionate about requiring compassion and empathy . I would express my compassion in a practical sense if I couldn't verbalize it. I would think there would be a fair amount of smart, caring women volunteering also who I could get to know more than superficially for a lengthy period of interaction who would grow to love, my aspie attributes.

That's what I would do.


Yup,
Religious women may be easier pickings. :mrgreen:
My first "girlfriend" was driven by compassion, through her religious indoctrination.

I would also recommend hobby courses and interest groups such as logic classes, bushwalking or arts and crafts, etc, after the CV event.
In the past, I have recommended local autism groups.

Joining an activity which is of interest to "you" is a possible win-win situation. :wink:


Hobby courses are expensive. I’d rather spend $300 on console I can use for years then on one pot making class.


I totally agree.
A console is a much better investment than an erky perky girl-germ infested girlfriend. :mrgreen:
Much, much, much cheaper also. 8O



cyberdad
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26 May 2020, 8:16 pm

Boo makes a valid point. Outliers who don't follow herd mentality are not easy to find.

I worked out early in highschool the good ones are taken. That's why I looked overseas.



kraftiekortie
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26 May 2020, 8:21 pm

I’m an “outlier.” It doesn’t mean I haven’t had success.

There happen to be many odd people out there.



cyberdad
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26 May 2020, 8:23 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I’m an “outlier.” It doesn’t mean I haven’t had success.

There happen to be many odd people out there.


You live in NY Kraftie, the odds are better in terms of numbers