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Snowy Owl
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10 Jul 2020, 5:51 pm

Jakki wrote:
Am not particularly well versed on this entire thread, somewhat longish read , But this last sentence about learning never to trust what people are trying to communicate to me , sounds as if there is meant to imply some sort of
Extra sensory information being conveyed or recognized by the non NT person. In some interactions . (correct me if am reading something into this that is not meant to be implied?)
If so. Then can recognize this unique appearing ability.


What I meant here is that NTs use lots of non verbal communication. I can't see that but instead pick up on their deep emotions. I am unusual for an aspie in that I can "read" these emotions and feel them. The things they want to communicate are totally different.

Say I meet a person who has just broken up in a long term relationship and they don't want people to know (they don't tell me). They can cover it up with a smile and small talk. I would just see the pain whereas NTs would maybe sense something but smile back and carry on with small talk.

I cannot trust any sense I have of the small talk. I feel their pain with them. It is kind of odd. Then I just end up looking sad and not smiling like I am supposed to.



Chain
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10 Jul 2020, 5:59 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
Lely wrote:
but "it's not a time" makes no sense here because you're not able to count time
...
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but this seems like international logic.

OK - you are totally wrong. Time is usually measured by counting the oscillations of an oscillator that has a constant frequency. Nearly all modern clocks are nothing but time counters. :wink: :mrgreen:


And don't forget atomic decay!

Did you know that if we didn't know about general and specific relativity that the GPS system wouldn't work? Clocks are faster on the GPS satellites because they are further away from the earth and are less effected by the curvature of space-time.

No idea why that makes me so happy....



blazingstar
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10 Jul 2020, 6:02 pm

I’ve always wondered how I think. My mind is dark. I have no pictures in it. No colors. Just dark. I fill it up with words. But the words are not what is in my mind. There is so much in my mind that is not words and not pictures.


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quite an extreme
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10 Jul 2020, 6:24 pm

blazingstar wrote:
I’ve always wondered how I think. My mind is dark. I have no pictures in it. No colors. Just dark. I fill it up with words. But the words are not what is in my mind. There is so much in my mind that is not words and not pictures.

Guess feelings, emotions, sounds, odors, imaginations, fun, memories, any kind of thoughts, fun and may be even me. :mrgreen:


Chain wrote:
No idea why that makes me so happy....

Because your atoms are a little bit bigger on earth and have little bit less mass then of the altitude of satellites? Or because you are aging less fast here? :)



kraftiekortie
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10 Jul 2020, 7:18 pm

My mind is all words and pictures. Maybe that’s why I’m not as smart or spiritual as some folks here :P

(Not meant facetiously. Something like religion is something that’s frequently intangible. That’s why, as an atheist, I don’t argue religion).



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10 Jul 2020, 8:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Not meant facetiously. Something like religion is something that’s frequently intangible. That’s why, as an atheist, I don’t argue religion.

Isn't worth the time. Religous people imagine a god and develop a strong emotional connection to him. That means that they really feel (!) love towards their imagination. They are more likely to change their religion then to give up this imagination that they are totally into.


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10 Jul 2020, 9:24 pm

Chain wrote:
Lely wrote:
quite an extreme wrote:
Especially young girls are often this way and especially very young guys (are) likely to do what they want hoping that they do like them more afterwards. It's rather the opposite. It's quite normal even that not all women are this way.

I added a verb (the word "are") to the sentence to make sense of it.
So the guy will be doing favours in the hope the girl will like him (or give him sex maybe?) if he does certain things for her. Then the guys are behaving a certain way too only to "manipulate" her feelings. But only "especially young girls are often this way" ? Hahaha the bias


Do people really think in either pictures or words? Thinking in words must be very slow and inefficient. And if you blank on a word then your thoughts get stuck or what? You're not able to proceed thinking? And how would you even be able to notice that you can't remember a word? It must be that the thought already exists before you translate it into language.

Why should bilingual people think in language?

I think neither in pictures nor in words. If I do translate my thoughts in my head into something, it would be language, but I do so only with a minimal percentage of thoughts, because of how slow and inefficient and pointless it actually ist. Thoughts exist prior to translating them into language. I don't need to talk to myself in my head to be thinking.

I didn't have speech delay.

As for visual thinking, I tend to avoid it, but in certain situations, I am able to recall fragments of visual memories. Then I recall colours well but not fine details.

I read Grandin said autistic people have problems with abstraction. For example, when asked to imagine a church, she would use a visual memory of a church she's seen in the past, whereas average people would use abstraction (simply creating an image of a church in their head instead of recalling the picture of a church or of churches they've seen).


I had a speech delay. My mother (just like Temple's mother) was told I may never speak or walk. Funny thing is... I have lived in 3 countries where I learned to speak languages with very little detectable accent (at the time) AND I ran a marathon. so much for those doctors :)

Lots of people run lists through their heads about what they are doing, going to do etc. Because my primary interest is the nature of mind in the human race, I have spent lots of time watching my thoughts. I also have done lots of meditation. I do think in pictures but also shapes, colors and contours. Every letter and number has a color for me that has been static my entire life... did you know the number 3 is light green?


Very impressive ,!


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11 Jul 2020, 2:46 am

quite an extreme wrote:
OK - you are totally wrong. Time is usually measured by counting the oscillations of an oscillator that has a constant frequency. Nearly all modern clocks are nothing but time counters. Even atomic clocks. :wink: :mrgreen:

You don't seem to get it.
I have even posted this link in my post: https://www.myhappyenglish.com/free-eng ... countable/
for you so you can actually see that gramatically time can be either a countable or uncountable noun.
From the website I linked:
"So when time means experience, then we can count it. Otherwise, time is uncountable. I hope you had a nice time (experience) here today. If you have more time (clock time)*, please check my other lessons!"

*'I hope you have more time' without the article 'a', because in the example in the last sentence above (as well as in the light year thing) you're not counting the "times" - time is an uncountable noun here. What you are counting woud be the units of time, such as minutes.

It makes perfect sense just the same way in German.
Ein Jahr ist EINE(a) Zeit, die es braucht, irgendwas zu tun - falsch.
Ein Jahr ist DIE Zeit, die es braucht, um....
"Ein Lichtjahr ist nicht eine Zeit" ist grammatikalisch falsch! Überleg mal :study: Für jemanden, der angeblich einen inneren Dauermonolog führt und ständig Sätze und Wörter in seinem Kopf vor sich her sagt, solltest du doch ein Gefühl für sowas haben.

quite an extreme wrote:
They are more likely to change their religion then to give up this imagination that they are totally into.

Just as people who believe in things such as money, marriage, companies, stocks, morals, equality, race, politics, governments ... also just imagine something that doesn't exist. You like to think you're not susceptible to holding onto imaginations but we're all doing it, because that's how society works. Otherwise it would collapse.



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11 Jul 2020, 4:33 am

Lely wrote:
quite an extreme wrote:
OK - you are totally wrong. Time is usually measured by counting the oscillations of an oscillator that has a constant frequency. Nearly all modern clocks are nothing but time counters. Even atomic clocks. :wink: :mrgreen:

You don't seem to get it.
I have even posted this link ...

You mean I should have used duration instead time because you thought it being one but your are unable to limit your explanations to just this. Time is money honey and nothing to wast it. But it's nice that you are caring as much about me being perfect. :roll: I guess it's kind of an expression of your high valuation of me or even of love or other strong feelings but my ToM is very limited so I'm not sure regarding this. :? Hate and love are sometimes related. May be we should discuss this using PM then.

Lely wrote:
You like to think you're not susceptible to holding onto imaginations but we're all doing it, because that's how society works. Otherwise it would collapse.

To make the society collapse seems rather an irresistibly nice idea to me. But we need to plant some new imaginations into the heads of the people for this. Any nice ideas regarding this?



Last edited by quite an extreme on 11 Jul 2020, 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

blazingstar
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11 Jul 2020, 4:39 am

quite an extreme wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
I’ve always wondered how I think. My mind is dark. I have no pictures in it. No colors. Just dark. I fill it up with words. But the words are not what is in my mind. There is so much in my mind that is not words and not pictures.

Guess feelings, emotions, sounds, odors, imaginations, fun, memories, any kind of thoughts, fun and may be even me. :mrgreen:
)


Do thoughts have to be in words or pictures?


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Lely
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11 Jul 2020, 5:32 am

quite an extreme wrote:
You mean I should have used duration instead time because you thought it being one but your are unable to limit your explanations to just this. Time is money honey and nothing to wast it. But it's nice that you are caring as much about me being perfect. :roll: I guess it's kind of an expression of your high valuation of me or even of love or other strong feelings but my ToM is very limited so I'm not sure regarding this. :? Hate and love are sometimes related. May be we should discuss this using PM then.

To make the society collapse seems rather an irresistibly nice idea to me. But we need to plant some new imaginations into the heads of the people for this. Any nice ideas regarding this?


Time and money are two different things. If your time is too valuable why did you even reply? Also, me explaining to you why my grammatical understanding is not as you told me totally wrong is an expression of love/hate? Haha. You're right: your theory of mind is extremely limited and faulty and coupled with hubris it might lead you to draw that false conclusion. Maybe it flatters you to believe otherwise, but no, I don't hate you just because your illogical use of language and your failed attempt at justifying it by explaining to me what a clock is, didn't work out for you :P I don't know why you try to make something personal out of this. It is not against you personally. You should have just properly read my first post, then it would have saved you your time (or money...) because I would not have needed to repeat myself.

As for planting new imaginations into people's brains, I suppose it takes charismatic NTs to do so successfully. By replacing their current beliefs with new ones, society might change but not collapse. You would have to make them stop believing in any collective imagination to have it collapse properly guess.



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11 Jul 2020, 5:47 am

blazingstar wrote:
quite an extreme wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
I’ve always wondered how I think. My mind is dark. I have no pictures in it. No colors. Just dark. I fill it up with words. But the words are not what is in my mind. There is so much in my mind that is not words and not pictures.

Guess feelings, emotions, sounds, odors, imaginations, fun, memories, any kind of thoughts, fun and may be even me. :mrgreen:
)


Do thoughts have to be in words or pictures?

a born-blind person does not think in pictures but more likely in words and concepts- sometimes kinesiological concepts, muscle memory. that is one example. :) a born-deaf person would be more likely to think visually, but could also do concepts. it makes me wonder if autism could be a bit more common in the deaf?



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11 Jul 2020, 11:50 am

Lely wrote:
Time and money are two different things.

Not really once you have to work and to spent your time for getting money. That's why time is money.
Lely wrote:
If your time is too valuable ...

Ooops - again! Must be love ... :heart: How about ranting using PM?
Chatting here is just distraction.

Lely wrote:
As for planting new imaginations into people's brains, I suppose it takes charismatic NTs to do so successfully. By replacing their current beliefs with new ones, society might change but not collapse.

Just like 1933 happened.
Lely wrote:
You would have to make them stop believing in any collective imagination to have it collapse properly guess.

Sounds like fun. :twisted:



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11 Jul 2020, 3:36 pm

blazingstar wrote:
quite an extreme wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
I’ve always wondered how I think. My mind is dark. I have no pictures in it. No colors. Just dark. I fill it up with words. But the words are not what is in my mind. There is so much in my mind that is not words and not pictures.

Guess feelings, emotions, sounds, odors, imaginations, fun, memories, any kind of thoughts, fun and may be even me. :mrgreen:
)


Do thoughts have to be in words or pictures?

8O
Maybe just learned information and you are the brain. Processor unit . Images ,word thoughts Synaptic reflexes connecting other parts of the processor unit, then connecting other “thought feelings “ exponential connections creating creative responses and other dialogs connecting even more synapses.
( just my thoughts of the topic)


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12 Jul 2020, 3:26 am

quite an extreme wrote:
Not really once you have to work and to spent your time for getting money. That's why time is money.

As you are describing it those things are alternatives, not the same thing.
Since you're not writing this during your working hours but during your free time the opportunity cost of you writing this is nothing monetary anyway.
Quote:
Ooops - again! Must be love ... :heart: How about ranting using PM? Chatting here is just distraction.

Of course you can always shoot me a pm but this is interesting and related to theory of mind. The reactions I observe in you are inspiring me to believe Erotomania could be linked to a general weakness in theory of mind, as you are demonstrating :) you make a nice study object in fact. Interesting indeed and keep dreaming buddy. But alright, I will disappear from your thread and wish you a nice Sunday.



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12 Jul 2020, 8:33 am

Lely wrote:
As you are describing it those things are alternatives, not the same thing.
Since you're not writing this during your working hours but during your free time the opportunity cost of you writing this is nothing monetary anyway.

Wrong. Instead of writing here I could work that time as well and becomming paid for this. My spare time is the same expensive as the money I get at work. But who likes to work only?


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