Abuse of Disabled (ASD) within romantic relationships

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madbutnotmad
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25 Oct 2020, 12:58 pm

I believe in some cases, some NT partners (and I am not pointing fingers here towards anyone, i certainly have no intention of causing rifts between any one who is in a relationship with a person with ASD) however...

I believe that in some circumstances some NT partners may exploit their partners incurable behavioural reactions so as to make their ASD partners look like they are the abusive partner in a relationship.

If such behaviour does happen, i would speculate that in such cases the NT partner would be actually subjecting their partner to a form of psychological abuse.

I liken this type of abuse to be the same as other types of disability abuse, for example, it would not be acceptable for someone to throw a partner who is paralyzed from the waist below, and then complain if their paralyzed partner complains or even swears at them after being abused.

I would say that when a partner is aware that their partner is suffering from a particular condition which is known to trigger antisocial like behaviour under certain circumstances (neurological reaction that is triggered by known sensory information), if the NT partner then intentionally triggers their partners antisocial like behaviour, in order to get their partner to react, then surely the NT partner can not claim to be being abused when their ASD partner is simply exhibiting anti-social like behaviour caused by the neurological condition that they suffer from.

I would also further say that any NT partner who does indeed intentionally cause an adverse reaction in their disabled ASD partner, then the abuse is indeed on the NT partners side regardless as to what behaviour the ASD partner exhibits due to the nature of the neurological disorder and recognised disability that the ASD partner suffers.

Any thoughts on this subject? Although i do understand that we live during a time that the world still doesn't really understand ASD or the symptoms / behaviours associated with the condition.



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01 Nov 2020, 10:38 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
I believe in some cases, some NT partners (and I am not pointing fingers here towards anyone, i certainly have no intention of causing rifts between any one who is in a relationship with a person with ASD) however...

I believe that in some circumstances some NT partners may exploit their partners incurable behavioural reactions so as to make their ASD partners look like they are the abusive partner in a relationship.

If such behaviour does happen, i would speculate that in such cases the NT partner would be actually subjecting their partner to a form of psychological abuse.

I liken this type of abuse to be the same as other types of disability abuse, for example, it would not be acceptable for someone to throw a partner who is paralyzed from the waist below, and then complain if their paralyzed partner complains or even swears at them after being abused.

I would say that when a partner is aware that their partner is suffering from a particular condition which is known to trigger antisocial like behaviour under certain circumstances (neurological reaction that is triggered by known sensory information), if the NT partner then intentionally triggers their partners antisocial like behaviour, in order to get their partner to react, then surely the NT partner can not claim to be being abused when their ASD partner is simply exhibiting anti-social like behaviour caused by the neurological condition that they suffer from.

I would also further say that any NT partner who does indeed intentionally cause an adverse reaction in their disabled ASD partner, then the abuse is indeed on the NT partners side regardless as to what behaviour the ASD partner exhibits due to the nature of the neurological disorder and recognised disability that the ASD partner suffers.

Any thoughts on this subject? Although i do understand that we live during a time that the world still doesn't really understand ASD or the symptoms / behaviours associated with the condition.


People are manipulative. That is what we all learn from age zero, how to manipulate another into doing the things that help us.

NT's are merely better at it.

I got used and abused in my last relationship. My NT partner just ran rings around me with all the lies and deception going on. In the end, though, all he accomplished was separating me from an amount of money that I probably would have given him anyway, if he had just come up and been honest and asked. The low and underhanded way he went about things, I will go to the grave never having anything to do with him again. :skull: And I have already ordered Nolo Willmaker, it should arrive in a week or so. Need to be absolutely sure he gets nothing when I die.


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nick007
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04 Nov 2020, 2:23 pm

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
People are manipulative. That is what we all learn from age zero, how to manipulate another into doing the things that help us.

NT's are merely better at it.
There are some Aspies who are very good at manipulation or who are at least good at manipulating specific people.


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04 Nov 2020, 5:30 pm

nick007 wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
People are manipulative. That is what we all learn from age zero, how to manipulate another into doing the things that help us.

NT's are merely better at it.
There are some Aspies who are very good at manipulation or who are at least good at manipulating specific people.


My main method of manipulating others is being nice to them. :jester:


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Champagne supernova
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11 May 2021, 12:10 pm

Yes, I totally agree. This is something that we all need to keep an eye on. When we are in love and happy of course we want to please our partners but be careful of giving them too much. Too much of your time, too much effort and too much of your money.
I have almost been in relationships with people like this but I have pulled out thinking something want right. My current partner does push me and try to get more from me but I've learnt to say no, to push her back and to stand up for myself. It isn't easy saying no for the first time, they may not like it but it's something you have to deal with sooner or later.



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11 May 2021, 1:03 pm

TLDR (sorry - ranting)

In my three previous relationships I did feel pressured to step out of my comfort zone. I thought the partners were representative of "normal people" whereas I knew I was different somehow. I imagined if I acted like them I would be achieving a degree of "normalcy" even though it made me anxious. Examples include:

BF1:
Lots and lots (and lots and lots) of time spent with his family and friends. Big gatherings. Women's groups (egad) for the wives and girlfriends to host dinner parties, learn crafting, or talk about their lady bits. ( <--Seriously ...) Lots of cultural and traditional events, big lavish Orthodox weddings, foreign languages, and expensive outings. He was Polish with many eastern European friends and the lifestyle was very different for me but I went along thinking it was going to help me be less shy. There's nothing wrong with any of the cultural stuff of course but the issue was that I was always overwhelmed without a moment to myself. I didn't know I was autistic and didn't know why I was so unhappy, but it's because I was overwhelmed by people, places, things, and obligations. I saw a diary from that time period and I can't believe how much stuff I did. Multiple social events EVERY DAY all over the place. Uncomfortable, scratchy Fancy clothes. Small talk. Smiling. Masking. Faking. Hiding my stims. Being judged. Failing. Always. His family joined us on all holiday journeys and got upset if I read a book or stepped away from the group. It was intense. I couldn't deal and I didn't know why. We ended up married after several years of this because he was the only guy I'd dated. I didn't have anything to compare it to. No sex until the marriage. He came out gay and left me with our infant daughter a year later. I was never so relieved in my life, to have my "self" back.

Time wasted = 13 years


BF2:
Manipulative drug addict and alcoholic. During our relationship he became unemployed and eventually homeless. He made me do a lot of sketchy things on my own in the city, like meeting him random places in the dark and putting myself at risk. The attraction was that I thought he was fun in a counter-cultural way. I liked the fact he was antisocial compared to #1. There weren't many expectations except he wanted more and more money, financial help, and indulgence in weird sexual fetishes which didn't involve PIV. I thought perhaps that was all normal and that I hadn't learned about sexuality because of my gay ex. I didn't enjoy any of his ... proclivities ... but again I thought I was just depressed, or that this was how "real people" (cool people) acted. Epic fail. I was used for money and he came out gay as well. He admitted using me as a cover so that his family wouldn't know he was gay. They were staunch homophobic Catholics, and he was hoping they'd not disinherit him from possible money if he had a girlfriend. I endured total abuse in more ways than I can describe.

Time wasted = 3 years.


BF3:
Nice guy but also abusive. He dragged me around to social events where I wasn't comfortable, and often walked away to chat with others for an hour or two at a time. I was horribly uncomfortable but he got upset when I complained. He thought I was weak for being so shy. He drank a lot and was always pushing me to smoke pot or have beer, which made me sick. He used to drive drunk / stoned with me in the car. He said several emotionally abusive things to me and loved to insult random women for their looks. He was into yet another set of fetishes that I didn't like, but I still thought it must be "normal" and I got desensitised to it. No way could I be wrong a third time, could I? There was no PIV and he always had excuses. He really messed with my head and broke my trust. He lied to me about several important things, including his sexuality (see #2 above). He was gay like the others but didn't want his family to know because of religious shaming and his own embarrassment. He was worried I'd be upset when he came out like the other two.

Time wasted = five years


So yeah, I've been abused and manipulated. I didn't know I was autistic in any of those relationships but I knew my needs weren't being met. They sweet-talked me and led me to believe that their way of acting was "normal". I should act like them and stop being myself. I believed them. I take responsibility for it but I also see it as an abuse of trust.

After these relationships I endured seven years of trauma and physical / sexual / emotional / financial abuse, but it wasn't in the confines of a relationship so I don't think I should count that. The main person was a predatory psychopath, and definitely not a romantic partner.



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12 May 2021, 3:44 am

Champagne supernova wrote:
Yes, I totally agree. This is something that we all need to keep an eye on. When we are in love and happy of course we want to please our partners but be careful of giving them too much. Too much of your time, too much effort and too much of your money.
I have almost been in relationships with people like this but I have pulled out thinking something want right. My current partner does push me and try to get more from me but I've learnt to say no, to push her back and to stand up for myself. It isn't easy saying no for the first time, they may not like it but it's something you have to deal with sooner or later.


I worry about this too- being used. Especially financially. The motive is there, and it's pretty clear when I am getting to know a woman on an online dating site, and I'm just dramatically better off than she is, and she lacks housing, even medical insurance most likely...I mean, I don't think really that she is attracted to me on a physical or spiritual level at that point. Obviously, someone to pay the bills. :lol:

I do hate discovering that a potential partner is poor. It just belies all the tender thoughts I had been cultivating about their motivations.


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12 May 2021, 4:02 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
TLDR (sorry - ranting)

In my three previous relationships I did feel pressured to step out of my comfort zone. I thought the partners were representative of "normal people" whereas I knew I was different somehow. I imagined if I acted like them I would be achieving a degree of "normalcy" even though it made me anxious. Examples include:

BF1:
Lots and lots (and lots and lots) of time spent with his family and friends. Big gatherings. Women's groups (egad) for the wives and girlfriends to host dinner parties, learn crafting, or talk about their lady bits. ( <--Seriously ...) Lots of cultural and traditional events, big lavish Orthodox weddings, foreign languages, and expensive outings. He was Polish with many eastern European friends and the lifestyle was very different for me but I went along thinking it was going to help me be less shy. There's nothing wrong with any of the cultural stuff of course but the issue was that I was always overwhelmed without a moment to myself. I didn't know I was autistic and didn't know why I was so unhappy, but it's because I was overwhelmed by people, places, things, and obligations. I saw a diary from that time period and I can't believe how much stuff I did. Multiple social events EVERY DAY all over the place. Uncomfortable, scratchy Fancy clothes. Small talk. Smiling. Masking. Faking. Hiding my stims. Being judged. Failing. Always. His family joined us on all holiday journeys and got upset if I read a book or stepped away from the group. It was intense. I couldn't deal and I didn't know why. We ended up married after several years of this because he was the only guy I'd dated. I didn't have anything to compare it to. No sex until the marriage. He came out gay and left me with our infant daughter a year later. I was never so relieved in my life, to have my "self" back.

Time wasted = 13 years


BF2:
Manipulative drug addict and alcoholic. During our relationship he became unemployed and eventually homeless. He made me do a lot of sketchy things on my own in the city, like meeting him random places in the dark and putting myself at risk. The attraction was that I thought he was fun in a counter-cultural way. I liked the fact he was antisocial compared to #1. There weren't many expectations except he wanted more and more money, financial help, and indulgence in weird sexual fetishes which didn't involve PIV. I thought perhaps that was all normal and that I hadn't learned about sexuality because of my gay ex. I didn't enjoy any of his ... proclivities ... but again I thought I was just depressed, or that this was how "real people" (cool people) acted. Epic fail. I was used for money and he came out gay as well. He admitted using me as a cover so that his family wouldn't know he was gay. They were staunch homophobic Catholics, and he was hoping they'd not disinherit him from possible money if he had a girlfriend. I endured total abuse in more ways than I can describe.

Time wasted = 3 years.


BF3:
Nice guy but also abusive. He dragged me around to social events where I wasn't comfortable, and often walked away to chat with others for an hour or two at a time. I was horribly uncomfortable but he got upset when I complained. He thought I was weak for being so shy. He drank a lot and was always pushing me to smoke pot or have beer, which made me sick. He used to drive drunk / stoned with me in the car. He said several emotionally abusive things to me and loved to insult random women for their looks. He was into yet another set of fetishes that I didn't like, but I still thought it must be "normal" and I got desensitised to it. No way could I be wrong a third time, could I? There was no PIV and he always had excuses. He really messed with my head and broke my trust. He lied to me about several important things, including his sexuality (see #2 above). He was gay like the others but didn't want his family to know because of religious shaming and his own embarrassment. He was worried I'd be upset when he came out like the other two.

Time wasted = five years


So yeah, I've been abused and manipulated. I didn't know I was autistic in any of those relationships but I knew my needs weren't being met. They sweet-talked me and led me to believe that their way of acting was "normal". I should act like them and stop being myself. I believed them. I take responsibility for it but I also see it as an abuse of trust.

After these relationships I endured seven years of trauma and physical / sexual / emotional / financial abuse, but it wasn't in the confines of a relationship so I don't think I should count that. The main person was a predatory psychopath, and definitely not a romantic partner.


This was an interesting read. I assume PIV = Penetrative Intercourse, Vaginal? or penetration into vagina? I do not know what else it could mean. I think that is a fairly good litmus test for heterosexuality. I do not what else would serve.

I had an excessively social husband for 20+ years that dragged me around to too many events, parties and so on, he wanted socials every weekend and even during the weekday, it was never-ending. I was judged weird for not really being keen on these noisy and time-consuming events. Basically people come over, the whole evening's blown, they just stay late into the night. Yuck. All NT's want to do is sit around yakking all night long, that and then eating drinking and getting sloppy-drunk. They get fat, drunk and alcoholic and think they're infinitely fascinating in their alcoholic stupors.

Some people have no love of solitude, they hate being alone with their own thoughts, they get miserable because they're miserable people.

If you like being alone and can appreciate a certain degree of solitude, that's a rare gift, appreciate it, it opens the door to spiritual practice and to understanding of God, of divinity.

I've become pickier about getting involved with other people...there are things I won't put up with. Drugs/alcohol is a big one, another would be pushiness or being too social. Someone that wants to go out all the time...no, it won't work. I expect a partner to possess some kind of intellectual curiosity/interest that does not revolve around what the Jones are doing.


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nick007
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14 May 2021, 3:56 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I worry about this too- being used. Especially financially. The motive is there, and it's pretty clear when I am getting to know a woman on an online dating site, and I'm just dramatically better off than she is, and she lacks housing, even medical insurance most likely...I mean, I don't think really that she is attracted to me on a physical or spiritual level at that point. Obviously, someone to pay the bills. :lol:

I do hate discovering that a potential partner is poor. It just belies all the tender thoughts I had been cultivating about their motivations.
That actually would not bother me if I was fairly financially successful. Maybe my perspective is different cuz my only income is Social Security Disability & when I was working I was extremely lucky to be employed even though I was only making just over the federal minimum-wage(unless I was allowed to work overtime). I struggled MAJORLY to get any romantic relationship & I believe that me being disabled was a major factor as to why. I've known various disabled guys who struggled with obtaining romantic relationships even if they were fairly independent & didn't have mental health stuff, the women were worried about what if things got worse for them. More than a few people assumed that I was wanting a woman to take care of me & that was not the case. I do NOT need or majorly want a lot of expensive stuff. My main interests are computer, listening to music, & watching TV. I get most of my music online for free so the only regular costs for that stuff is the cable & net subscription & most households would have cable & net anyways weather it's one person living by themselves or a whole family. I do NOT want expensive designer clothing, cheap tShirts, cheap shorts, & cheap jeans are quite comfortable & I'm not bothered by stains or having a few small holes. I do not like going to fancy restaurants, I love fast-food like Mc.Donald's. I do NOT like traveling & going on vacations, I'd much rather stay home. I had SSI & later started getting Social Security Disability so I had some income so What was I needing or wanting a romantic partner to buy me or spend her hard-earned money on me for :? The 3 jobs I had were all cleaning related so I can do a bit of housework to help out & pull my share of the weight. I'll do the laundry, wash the dishes, vacuum, mop, dust, clean the bathroom if the woman would like & show me how she wants it done. I never figured out why so many working & financially independent women woulda had a problem with me being a house husband :? Wouldn't they like a massage when they got home from work & have somebody they could rant on & on about their long hard busy day to :? I complained about being single quite aLOT & most of the advice & suggestions I got were sh!t. Things like get a decent paying job but nobody ever told me how to achieve that in a way that I could apply it & make it work for me. About the only realistic advice I ever got about this was to seek out women who were in bad situations. I didn't have my own place but getting one was sorta in the works(long story) & I hated the idea of living alone & I really HATED sleeping by myself, I LOVE cuddling & I have some sleep disorders that act up if I'm lonely. If things were happening faster & I woulda got my own place I would of sought out a woman who needed a place to stay. As long as she was a nice person to me I woulda been happy to have her companionship. She probably woulda fallen in love with me after a bit if she woulda gave me a chance cuz of the way I woulda been devoted to her. If not I at least would have companionship & be able to help out someone in a bad situation for a while. If I woulda suddenly came into a bunch of money like finding a winning lottery ticket or something, I still woulda sought out a woman like that. In my experience people who come from a bit of money tend to look down on people who don't. I'd much rather be with somebody who's been poor than someone who has a negative opinion of anybody needing any kind of assistance or help with things. I'm the only disabled person in my immediate & extended family. My parents were poor when they got married but worked very hard & gradually made it to lower middle-class probably not that long after I was born. My parents have been kinda frugal with their money & most of my peers had a lot more stuff than me even though my parents were at a similar income bracket, my parents were willing to spend the money when it was important or necessary but they saved a lot when they could. They put me down a lot as an adult for not contributing much to the household when I was not working. A bit of my money was going towards my medical expenses & I was paying for the cable & internet, my cellphone, & my personal stuff. I just couldn't afford to contribute much else when I was not working & when I was working they complained about how I coulda been doing better. I was working longer hours & coming in on an off day when I was allowed to work extra(it was voluntary & not required with my jobs) & I was giving my parents a bit of the money. They kept going on about what would happen to me after they die but I'm an only child & they have a bit of money saved up as well as life insurance & various other assets so their concern about my financial state after they die never made sense to me :? I do NOT want them to die of corse & would much rather be poor like I am now & them still alive. I just felt like a burden to them & like I could never measure up :( I would hate myself if I made my romantic partner feel that way. Just having someone who is a decent person & willing to try to make a relationship work with me, be there for me, & wanting to spend time with me is deserving of aLOT more than I could ever give her :cheers: :shaking2: :compress: :hail:

Sorry for the rambling & going off topic. I should make another post in this thread about abuse in relationships. Not sure when I will yet though.


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CollegeGirlAnon
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14 May 2021, 8:05 pm

I can see this happening to a lot of people with ASD.

This is why I think people need to be careful before getting involved with someone.


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14 May 2021, 8:24 pm

Oh yeah, my ex knew which buttons to push to turn me into the hysterical wife.
We even went to family therapy once, where he proceeded to charm the socks off the therapist and paint me as the bad guy.
But to be fair to NTs, I think he had a narcissistic personality.
I'm sure there must be good men out there... somewhere...?



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15 May 2021, 2:38 am

nick007 wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I worry about this too- being used. Especially financially. The motive is there, and it's pretty clear when I am getting to know a woman on an online dating site, and I'm just dramatically better off than she is, and she lacks housing, even medical insurance most likely...I mean, I don't think really that she is attracted to me on a physical or spiritual level at that point. Obviously, someone to pay the bills. :lol:

I do hate discovering that a potential partner is poor. It just belies all the tender thoughts I had been cultivating about their motivations.
That actually would not bother me if I was fairly financially successful. Maybe my perspective is different cuz my only income is Social Security Disability & when I was working I was extremely lucky to be employed even though I was only making just over the federal minimum-wage(unless I was allowed to work overtime). I struggled MAJORLY to get any romantic relationship & I believe that me being disabled was a major factor as to why. I've known various disabled guys who struggled with obtaining romantic relationships even if they were fairly independent & didn't have mental health stuff, the women were worried about what if things got worse for them. More than a few people assumed that I was wanting a woman to take care of me & that was not the case. I do NOT need or majorly want a lot of expensive stuff. My main interests are computer, listening to music, & watching TV. I get most of my music online for free so the only regular costs for that stuff is the cable & net subscription & most households would have cable & net anyways weather it's one person living by themselves or a whole family. I do NOT want expensive designer clothing, cheap tShirts, cheap shorts, & cheap jeans are quite comfortable & I'm not bothered by stains or having a few small holes. I do not like going to fancy restaurants, I love fast-food like Mc.Donald's. I do NOT like traveling & going on vacations, I'd much rather stay home. I had SSI & later started getting Social Security Disability so I had some income so What was I needing or wanting a romantic partner to buy me or spend her hard-earned money on me for :? The 3 jobs I had were all cleaning related so I can do a bit of housework to help out & pull my share of the weight. I'll do the laundry, wash the dishes, vacuum, mop, dust, clean the bathroom if the woman would like & show me how she wants it done. I never figured out why so many working & financially independent women woulda had a problem with me being a house husband :? Wouldn't they like a massage when they got home from work & have somebody they could rant on & on about their long hard busy day to :? I complained about being single quite aLOT & most of the advice & suggestions I got were sh!t. Things like get a decent paying job but nobody ever told me how to achieve that in a way that I could apply it & make it work for me. About the only realistic advice I ever got about this was to seek out women who were in bad situations. I didn't have my own place but getting one was sorta in the works(long story) & I hated the idea of living alone & I really HATED sleeping by myself, I LOVE cuddling & I have some sleep disorders that act up if I'm lonely. If things were happening faster & I woulda got my own place I would of sought out a woman who needed a place to stay. As long as she was a nice person to me I woulda been happy to have her companionship. She probably woulda fallen in love with me after a bit if she woulda gave me a chance cuz of the way I woulda been devoted to her. If not I at least would have companionship & be able to help out someone in a bad situation for a while. If I woulda suddenly came into a bunch of money like finding a winning lottery ticket or something, I still woulda sought out a woman like that. In my experience people who come from a bit of money tend to look down on people who don't. I'd much rather be with somebody who's been poor than someone who has a negative opinion of anybody needing any kind of assistance or help with things. I'm the only disabled person in my immediate & extended family. My parents were poor when they got married but worked very hard & gradually made it to lower middle-class probably not that long after I was born. My parents have been kinda frugal with their money & most of my peers had a lot more stuff than me even though my parents were at a similar income bracket, my parents were willing to spend the money when it was important or necessary but they saved a lot when they could. They put me down a lot as an adult for not contributing much to the household when I was not working. A bit of my money was going towards my medical expenses & I was paying for the cable & internet, my cellphone, & my personal stuff. I just couldn't afford to contribute much else when I was not working & when I was working they complained about how I coulda been doing better. I was working longer hours & coming in on an off day when I was allowed to work extra(it was voluntary & not required with my jobs) & I was giving my parents a bit of the money. They kept going on about what would happen to me after they die but I'm an only child & they have a bit of money saved up as well as life insurance & various other assets so their concern about my financial state after they die never made sense to me :? I do NOT want them to die of corse & would much rather be poor like I am now & them still alive. I just felt like a burden to them & like I could never measure up :( I would hate myself if I made my romantic partner feel that way. Just having someone who is a decent person & willing to try to make a relationship work with me, be there for me, & wanting to spend time with me is deserving of aLOT more than I could ever give her :cheers: :shaking2: :compress: :hail:

Sorry for the rambling & going off topic. I should make another post in this thread about abuse in relationships. Not sure when I will yet though.


Sir, I recommend you press the Enter key more often. Never let any one paragraph get longer than say, a dozen sentences.

I did, actually, read your ramble, and I am known, myself, for rambles on this forum...brother!

Parents tend to be worriers. They have been care-takers their whole lives, so they get into the habit of worrying, fretting over every little thing in regard to their offspring. It is because they want you to thrive. They want to feel like when they die you are okay. The reason they complain and gripe is because, they are planting a program in your mind that you will replay later, after they are long gone.

I still hear my dead father's lessons, his admonitions and reproofs, sometimes about various things. It is why I keep working full-time indeed.

As for women--it may be a difficult goal for many men. Not only have you to satisfy her many needs, wants and preferences, but she, too, must satisfy yours, and even though you seem very accommodating, surely you have preferences of your own. I have never made it past the first date with a woman in all my life. Either she dumps me, or I dump her, or it's mutual.

Someone to cuddle at night? I have a cat I adopted from the animal shelter. He's a great cuddler. He slept right beside my chest last night with my arm around him. Cats aren't picky. You just have to be gentle and kind with them. :heart:


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Gentleman Argentum
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15 May 2021, 2:56 am

MrsPeel wrote:
Oh yeah, my ex knew which buttons to push to turn me into the hysterical wife.
We even went to family therapy once, where he proceeded to charm the socks off the therapist and paint me as the bad guy.
But to be fair to NTs, I think he had a narcissistic personality.
I'm sure there must be good men out there... somewhere...?


This sounds familiar to me.

When I divorced, our mutual friends ceased contact with me, but maintained contact with my NT partner, the charming, thieving adulterer. It is on this basis I decided not to join the churches where many of our friends attend. I assume their church teaches that stealing is right, marriage is just a piece of paper, and lies are the easiest way to get things you want. I wonder what entity it is they worship, because that doesn't sound like YHVH to me.


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15 May 2021, 7:21 am

I know what you mean, people choose to believe what they want to believe. Even when they don't hear both sides of the story.



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15 May 2021, 3:19 pm

Gentleman Argentum wrote:

This was an interesting read. I assume PIV = Penetrative Intercourse, Vaginal? or penetration into vagina? I do not know what else it could mean. I think that is a fairly good litmus test for heterosexuality. I do not what else would serve.

I had an excessively social husband for 20+ years that dragged me around to too many events, parties and so on, he wanted socials every weekend and even during the weekday, it was never-ending. I was judged weird for not really being keen on these noisy and time-consuming events. Basically people come over, the whole evening's blown, they just stay late into the night. Yuck. All NT's want to do is sit around yakking all night long, that and then eating drinking and getting sloppy-drunk. They get fat, drunk and alcoholic and think they're infinitely fascinating in their alcoholic stupors.

Some people have no love of solitude, they hate being alone with their own thoughts, they get miserable because they're miserable people.

If you like being alone and can appreciate a certain degree of solitude, that's a rare gift, appreciate it, it opens the door to spiritual practice and to understanding of God, of divinity.

I've become pickier about getting involved with other people...there are things I won't put up with. Drugs/alcohol is a big one, another would be pushiness or being too social. Someone that wants to go out all the time...no, it won't work. I expect a partner to possess some kind of intellectual curiosity/interest that does not revolve around what the Jones are doing.


When I wrote PIV, I meant penis in vagina. In retrospect duh ... it was definitely a red flag but with #1 I was only 17 when we met. I thought he was being considerate to wait even though that wait went on for like ... 12 years? He's now married to a man. With #2 I thought he had a preference for fetish over PIV. He made it seem like that was 'normal' and more healthy to explore one's other fantasies. I guess I didn't notice that the other fantasies didn't involve women, and definitely didn't involve me. With #3 we were actually very good friends despite what I wrote, and he knew what I'd been through, so I just couldn't imagine that he would string me along like the others. By the time I was with him I had a young baby, and he kept saying that he was being considerate since I had a child and he thought couples should be married before PIV. I thought he was asexual but then his fetishes became more and more apparent over time so I saw he had urges, but they were never heterosexual. He's now trans (female) and with a man. Anyway, lesson learned. I blamed myself all those years that I just wasn't good enough, when I really should have known better. I just had nothing to compare it to, and I assumed it was all my fault like they lowkey suggested. I was very naive.

I agree with you that quiet time and serenity are very important, and it's a dealbreaker if a person is too social. 17 years after I split with #3, I met my current beau who is very quiet like me. I was extremely cautious as you can imagine, but I think I've found the right person after all these years. The only problem is we met right before Covid and our entire relationship has been structured by government lockdowns and restrictions. We've been separated by stay-at-home orders for the past three months, and most of last year was spent with outdoor dates walking our dogs two metres apart. I swear there's a black cloud over my head for the timing to be so coincidental. I can safely say though, that he's definitely not gay and there's no emotional or psychological abuse whatsoever in our relationship. :wink:



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16 May 2021, 5:19 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
When I wrote PIV, I meant penis in vagina. In retrospect duh ... it was definitely a red flag but with #1 I was only 17 when we met. I thought he was being considerate to wait even though that wait went on for like ... 12 years? He's now married to a man. With #2 I thought he had a preference for fetish over PIV. He made it seem like that was 'normal' and more healthy to explore one's other fantasies. I guess I didn't notice that the other fantasies didn't involve women, and definitely didn't involve me. With #3 we were actually very good friends despite what I wrote, and he knew what I'd been through, so I just couldn't imagine that he would string me along like the others. By the time I was with him I had a young baby, and he kept saying that he was being considerate since I had a child and he thought couples should be married before PIV. I thought he was asexual but then his fetishes became more and more apparent over time so I saw he had urges, but they were never heterosexual. He's now trans (female) and with a man. Anyway, lesson learned. I blamed myself all those years that I just wasn't good enough, when I really should have known better. I just had nothing to compare it to, and I assumed it was all my fault like they lowkey suggested. I was very naive.

I agree with you that quiet time and serenity are very important, and it's a dealbreaker if a person is too social. 17 years after I split with #3, I met my current beau who is very quiet like me. I was extremely cautious as you can imagine, but I think I've found the right person after all these years. The only problem is we met right before Covid and our entire relationship has been structured by government lockdowns and restrictions. We've been separated by stay-at-home orders for the past three months, and most of last year was spent with outdoor dates walking our dogs two metres apart. I swear there's a black cloud over my head for the timing to be so coincidental. I can safely say though, that he's definitely not gay and there's no emotional or psychological abuse whatsoever in our relationship. :wink:


Awesome! The two meters apart business is foreign to me, during the pandemic I had an outdoor date but we walked together pretty much. Now, it's just not an issue anymore in the States, I'm vaccinated as are many. I don't wear a mask anywhere anymore.

I hope you have many occasions to confirm and validate the heterosexuality of your new partner. :lol: In fact, that might be a good general policy. I really don't see any harm in it. Just use condoms.

Try not to think too much about the ex's. There is nothing to be done about the past. It is there, but you don't have to think about it. It is really unusual that you were with that many gays. I guess it is due to your age, because I am of the same age, and I remember back in the day, it was common for gays to be in the closet. Not so nowadays.

I moved from gay -> straight but have not found a girlfriend, just a long series of online messaging and phone calls with different women, and very occasional first dates that never progress to second dates.

The fact I was married to a man is a potential landmine, but only came up once, on a first date when I stupidly told her the bare truth thinking "honesty is best policy." She texted back and forth every day for a week, then ghosted me. We're still Facebook friends, but I unFollowed her and am pretty sure she unFollowed me.

My Facebook Friends list is the cemetery of all the women I've dated, been interested in, or have been interested in me.


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