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Women Are Rarely Direct With You About Not Being Interested

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AprilR
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05 May 2021, 8:26 am

J e s s i c a wrote:
Fnord wrote:
AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
I live in a very sexist and conservative country but just wanted to share my thoughts, it might resonate with someone who lives in America and West too maybe.  Women i know are mostly raised as being people pleasers by their parents.  I know a lot of women who prioritize other's needs before their own, who are very much scared of hurting the people they care about and just have trouble saying no in general.  These women are not having fun "leading people on".  They might just be scared of saying no because they are not used to it.  They might be scared of being tracked down, assaulted and raped in the worst case.  Violence against women who want to divorce/break up are very common in my country.  I don't think it is completely unheard of in America or the West either.  As for me, i also have trouble saying no to people i am not interested in because i don't understand my feelings well and care about the other person as a friend and don't want to lose them.  I also don't want to hurt other people's feelings but i don't want to seem like a cold person either.  So it is not like I am having fun playing with people's feelings or hurting them.  Emotions are complicated, relationships are very complicated and navigating them is hard for everyone.
Are you Middle Eastern by any chance?
I am indeed lol.  I forgot to mention that women showing interest and being direct is also considered slu*ty here.
Sharia Law?  Where women can be put to death for being raped?


That's very bigoted of you.


I don't think it's bigoted. Middle eastern countries don't exactly have a good reputation about women's rights. From what i know, what he said is true about sharia law.



The_Face_of_Boo
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05 May 2021, 8:27 am

AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
I live in a very sexist and conservative country but just wanted to share my thoughts, it might resonate with someone who lives in America and West too maybe. Women i know are mostly raised as being people pleasers by their parents. I know a lot of women who prioritize other's needs before their own, who are very much scared of hurting the people they care about and just have trouble saying no in general.

These women are not having fun "leading people on". They might just be scared of saying no because they are not used to it. They might be scared of being tracked down, assaulted and raped in the worst case. Violence against women who want to divorce /break up are very common in my country. I don't think it is completely unheard of in America or the West either.

As for me, i also have trouble saying no to people i am not interested in because i don't understand my feelings well and care about the other person as a friend and don't want to lose them. I also don't want to hurt other people's feelings but i don't want to seem like a cold person either. So it is not like i am having fun playing with people's feelings or hurting them. Emotions are complicated, relationships are very complicated and navigating them is hard for everyone.



Are you Middle Eastern by any chance?


I am indeed lol. I forgot to mention that women showing interest and being direct is also not common here since it gives off the image that the woman is "easy" whatever that means.


I bet Gulfian or Jordanian.


Nope, i am Turkish.

@Fnord: Thankfully not, our legal codes are adapted from German and Swiss law.


I didn't expect it, Turks are not known of being bilingual. lol



AprilR
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05 May 2021, 8:29 am

@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



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05 May 2021, 8:29 am

Fnord wrote:
J e s s i c a wrote:
Fnord wrote:
AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
I live in a very sexist and conservative country but just wanted to share my thoughts, it might resonate with someone who lives in America and West too maybe.  Women i know are mostly raised as being people pleasers by their parents.  I know a lot of women who prioritize other's needs before their own, who are very much scared of hurting the people they care about and just have trouble saying no in general.  These women are not having fun "leading people on".  They might just be scared of saying no because they are not used to it.  They might be scared of being tracked down, assaulted and raped in the worst case.  Violence against women who want to divorce/break up are very common in my country.  I don't think it is completely unheard of in America or the West either.  As for me, i also have trouble saying no to people i am not interested in because i don't understand my feelings well and care about the other person as a friend and don't want to lose them.  I also don't want to hurt other people's feelings but i don't want to seem like a cold person either.  So it is not like I am having fun playing with people's feelings or hurting them.  Emotions are complicated, relationships are very complicated and navigating them is hard for everyone.
Are you Middle Eastern by any chance?
I am indeed lol.  I forgot to mention that women showing interest and being direct is also considered slu*ty here.
Sharia Law?  Where women can be put to death for being raped?
That's very bigoted of you.
You need not look far to see the truth.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 25164.html

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10 ... 9908536496

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44076942

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/17/worl ... inals.html

According to Hina Jilani, a lawyer working for women's rights, "If a woman is raped but has no evidence to prove it, the very fact that she had admitted to the sexual act may lead to her own prosecution for adultery or fornication (e.g., "Zina").  Eighteen-year-old Sana Bibi was a servant in a wealthy, landed family.  She was raped regularly by the man of the house and his son and eventually became pregnant.  Her father lodged a suit for rape but, for want of evidence, the court acquitted the rapists and convicted Safia Biba of zina.

Under Sharia Law, punishing a rape victim for adultery or fornication happens.



I am sure it happens in some Middle-eastern countries, but none of the mentioned countries above are of the Middle East.



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05 May 2021, 8:34 am

AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.
Nice! It must have been difficult, since Turkish and Japanese are VERY different. From the alphabet, to the grammar, to the phonetics.



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05 May 2021, 8:35 am

AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



Back in my old job, I visited Turkey frequently, I had few fluent english-speaking Turk coworkers there, but they are bankers who worked in overseas branches.

What really baffled me there, that I often met people there of very senior positions in tech (ie. CTOs, lead programmers..) who don't know a single word of english. I mean English is the default language of technology, yet they don't know it. How did they even study their fields? lol



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05 May 2021, 8:36 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
According to Hina Jilani, a lawyer working for women's rights, "If a woman is raped but has no evidence to prove it, the very fact that she had admitted to the sexual act may lead to her own prosecution for adultery or fornication (e.g., "Zina").  Eighteen-year-old Sana Bibi was a servant in a wealthy, landed family.  She was raped regularly by the man of the house and his son and eventually became pregnant.  Her father lodged a suit for rape but, for want of evidence, the court acquitted the rapists and convicted Safia Biba of zina."  Under Sharia Law, punishing a rape victim for adultery or fornication happens.
I am sure it happens in some Middle-eastern countries, but none of the mentioned countries above are of the Middle East.
Oh, really?

https://time.com/5415628/zeinab-sekaanv ... -violence/

Do you see this woman's face?  Give it a long, hard look.

Image


Her name was Zeinab Sekaanvand Lokran.

She was a teenage victim of domestic violence and rape.  She sought help.  Iran executed her under Sharia Law.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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05 May 2021, 8:38 am

Aspie1 wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.
Nice! It must have been difficult, since Turkish and Japanese are VERY different. From the alphabet, to the grammar, to the phonetics.


Actually, family language-tree wise, Turkish (Altaic family) is closer to the far East languages like Korean (especially Mongolian) than to Arabic (Semitic family). Turks are originally central Asians.



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05 May 2021, 8:39 am

Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
According to Hina Jilani, a lawyer working for women's rights, "If a woman is raped but has no evidence to prove it, the very fact that she had admitted to the sexual act may lead to her own prosecution for adultery or fornication (e.g., "Zina").  Eighteen-year-old Sana Bibi was a servant in a wealthy, landed family.  She was raped regularly by the man of the house and his son and eventually became pregnant.  Her father lodged a suit for rape but, for want of evidence, the court acquitted the rapists and convicted Safia Biba of zina."  Under Sharia Law, punishing a rape victim for adultery or fornication happens.
I am sure it happens in some Middle-eastern countries, but none of the mentioned countries above are of the Middle East.
Oh, really?

https://time.com/5415628/zeinab-sekaanv ... -violence/

Do you see this woman's face?  Give it a long, hard look.

[img=center]https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/233200_2.jpeg?w=800&quality=85[/img

Her name was Zeinab Sekaanvand Lokran.

She was a teenage victim of domestic violence and rape.  She sought help.  Iran executed her under Sharia Law.


As I said, I am sure it happened in some countries there too. Iran is one of the countries that is getting more backward. I was referring to your 4 initial links.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 05 May 2021, 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

AprilR
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05 May 2021, 8:43 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



Back in my old job, I visited Turkey frequently, I had few fluent english-speaking Turk coworkers there, but they are bankers who worked in overseas branches.

What really baffled me there, that I often met people there of very senior positions in tech (ie. CTOs, lead programmers..) who don't know a single word of english. I mean English is the default language of technology, yet they don't know it. How did they even study their fields? lol


I will tell you another shocking thing. My dad who is also very fluent in english and is an Electric Electronic engineer told me this: All the ceos and company owners he met at work, none of them were college graduates. There are even some who didn't have high school degrees. All the engineers he met actually worked FOR those people with primary school degrees. They never made as much money as those uneducated ceos.

I myself graduated from one of my countries top universities' faculty of law and now the only career prospects i have is work for minimum wage since that's what a lawyer gets if you don't have your own business here.

That's what you get for working hard here.



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05 May 2021, 8:47 am

AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



Back in my old job, I visited Turkey frequently, I had few fluent english-speaking Turk coworkers there, but they are bankers who worked in overseas branches.

What really baffled me there, that I often met people there of very senior positions in tech (ie. CTOs, lead programmers..) who don't know a single word of english. I mean English is the default language of technology, yet they don't know it. How did they even study their fields? lol


I will tell you another shocking thing. My dad who is also very fluent in english and is an Electric Electronic engineer told me this: All the ceos and company owners he met at work, none of them were college graduates. There are even some who didn't have high school degrees. All the engineers he met actually worked FOR those people with primary school degrees. They never made as much money as those uneducated ceos.

I myself graduated from one of my countries top universities' faculty of law and now the only career prospects i have is work for minimum wage since that's what a lawyer gets if you don't have your own business here.

That's what you get for working hard here.


That's not very shocking actually, people who become CEOs often have peoples and network skills not taught in colleges, there are many examples elsewhere.



AprilR
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05 May 2021, 8:47 am

Aspie1 wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.
Nice! It must have been difficult, since Turkish and Japanese are VERY different. From the alphabet, to the grammar, to the phonetics.



Thanks. It is very difficult to learn the alphabet since they have 3, but it is very fun for me since i am a visual thinker and interpreting the different kanji comes easy to me.



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05 May 2021, 8:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.
Nice! It must have been difficult, since Turkish and Japanese are VERY different. From the alphabet, to the grammar, to the phonetics.
Actually, family language-tree wise, Turkish (Altaic family) is closer to the far East languages like Korean (especially Mongolian) than to Arabic (Semitic family). Turks are originally central Asians.
Oh wow! Interesting. I didn't know that.



AprilR
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05 May 2021, 8:54 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



Back in my old job, I visited Turkey frequently, I had few fluent english-speaking Turk coworkers there, but they are bankers who worked in overseas branches.

What really baffled me there, that I often met people there of very senior positions in tech (ie. CTOs, lead programmers..) who don't know a single word of english. I mean English is the default language of technology, yet they don't know it. How did they even study their fields? lol


I will tell you another shocking thing. My dad who is also very fluent in english and is an Electric Electronic engineer told me this: All the ceos and company owners he met at work, none of them were college graduates. There are even some who didn't have high school degrees. All the engineers he met actually worked FOR those people with primary school degrees. They never made as much money as those uneducated ceos.

I myself graduated from one of my countries top universities' faculty of law and now the only career prospects i have is work for minimum wage since that's what a lawyer gets if you don't have your own business here.

That's what you get for working hard here.


That's not very shocking actually, people who become CEOs often have peoples and network skills not taught in colleges, there are many examples elsewhere.


Well i guess so, but i imagine in technical jobs at least you have to have some kind of knowledge regarding the field. At least a high school degree? Regardless what i meant was that education in general isn't taken very seriously here including foreign language education.



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05 May 2021, 8:58 am

Aspie1 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.
Nice! It must have been difficult, since Turkish and Japanese are VERY different. From the alphabet, to the grammar, to the phonetics.
Actually, family language-tree wise, Turkish (Altaic family) is closer to the far East languages like Korean (especially Mongolian) than to Arabic (Semitic family). Turks are originally central Asians.
Oh wow! Interesting. I didn't know that.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turco-Mongol_tradition



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05 May 2021, 10:50 am

AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AprilR wrote:
@Boo Yeah definitely lol. Well me being possibly autistic is most likely a factor here. I am very good with languages, i also taught myself a bit of japanese.



Back in my old job, I visited Turkey frequently, I had few fluent english-speaking Turk coworkers there, but they are bankers who worked in overseas branches.

What really baffled me there, that I often met people there of very senior positions in tech (ie. CTOs, lead programmers..) who don't know a single word of english. I mean English is the default language of technology, yet they don't know it. How did they even study their fields? lol


I will tell you another shocking thing. My dad who is also very fluent in english and is an Electric Electronic engineer told me this: All the ceos and company owners he met at work, none of them were college graduates. There are even some who didn't have high school degrees. All the engineers he met actually worked FOR those people with primary school degrees. They never made as much money as those uneducated ceos.

I myself graduated from one of my countries top universities' faculty of law and now the only career prospects i have is work for minimum wage since that's what a lawyer gets if you don't have your own business here.

That's what you get for working hard here.


That's not very shocking actually, people who become CEOs often have peoples and network skills not taught in colleges, there are many examples elsewhere.


Well i guess so, but i imagine in technical jobs at least you have to have some kind of knowledge regarding the field. At least a high school degree? Regardless what i meant was that education in general isn't taken very seriously here including foreign language education.



That sounds opposite to Arabs, education is taken very seriously here, even by not-very-educated parents.
In Saudi Arabia for instance, 80% of young girls are interested in STEM fields, 60% of STEM graduates are women.

But it is not uncommon to encounter school-level educated CEOs, founding a business is mostly about connections and socializing.


Quote:
According to a report prepared by the Saudi Education Ministry, girls accounted for 57 percent of undergraduates for the year 2015-2016 in the Kingdom.
That same year, women outnumbered men in graduating with a bachelor’s in biology, information technology (IT), mathematics and statistics, and physics.
According to a survey Alakeel recently conducted on social media, “almost 80 percent of (Saudi) girls were keen to study STEM, but securing a job after the degree remains the challenge,” she said.
Maha Al-Taleb, 22, graduated earlier this year with a degree in technology from KSU, specializing in IT networks and security.
“It’s common for girls in the Kingdom to opt for STEM education,” said Al-Taleb, who now works in a public sector company in Riyadh as a junior information security analyst.
“Saudi women are ambitious. We’re acquiring high degrees and seeking successful careers. I don’t know why the world assumes that Saudi women are a backward tribal species who have no say in these matters. This entire perception is flawed.


https://www.arabnews.com/node/1469381