08 Oct 2022, 7:27 am
08 Oct 2022, 9:37 am
Jayo wrote:
I've always had a certain interest in socio-anthropological psychology, despite being more in the technical field... and while I've since moved on from my younger dating "trial and error" days, married with a family and career, it always got me that us male Aspies lacked the "privilege" of others.
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies!
) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary.
So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies!
) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary. So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
Lots of good insights. An aggressive or belligerent man is seen as a thrill. A socially awkward man is (unfortunately) seen as lame.
When I was in high school, a classmate I was interested in flat-out told me it would be bad for her reputation if she dated me.
Once I got out of the high school bubble, I was able to date a fair bit during my 20s (Likely due to my good looks, plus the fact I'm only on the spectrum to a mild degree). Before anyone reading my post gets jealous, however, I should mention: Most relationships I've had have been extremely short-lived. My best guess is the girlfriend loses interest once it becomes apparent there's something off with me.
Even my longest-lasting girlfriend (we dated for months) never introduced me to her friends.
As for not being seen as a provider or protector, you took the words right out of my mouth. Guys on the spectrum, big or small, tend to be the type to avoid street-fights. And even though you make decent money, a lot of us struggle to climb the ladder at work (for the same reasons we struggle socially in general).
Lastly, I'm going to address your comment about selectively socially awkward men. Those men ruin it for the rest of us. We (guys on the spectrum) don't mean to push boundaries; we merely lack the awareness to even realize we're pushing a boundary. But how is the woman supposed to tell the difference between us vs the abusive guys who simply ignore social cues (even though he reads the social cues damn well)?
08 Oct 2022, 9:52 am
08 Oct 2022, 10:54 am
Mitchell M.
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 5 Jul 2022
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 55
Location: United States
08 Oct 2022, 11:35 am
SkinnyElephant wrote:
Jayo wrote:
I've always had a certain interest in socio-anthropological psychology, despite being more in the technical field... and while I've since moved on from my younger dating "trial and error" days, married with a family and career, it always got me that us male Aspies lacked the "privilege" of others.
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies! ) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary.
So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies!
) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary. So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
Lots of good insights. An aggressive or belligerent man is seen as a thrill. A socially awkward man is (unfortunately) seen as lame.
When I was in high school, a classmate I was interested in flat-out told me it would be bad for her reputation if she dated me.
Once I got out of the high school bubble, I was able to date a fair bit during my 20s (Likely due to my good looks, plus the fact I'm only on the spectrum to a mild degree). Before anyone reading my post gets jealous, however, I should mention: Most relationships I've had have been extremely short-lived. My best guess is the girlfriend loses interest once it becomes apparent there's something off with me.
Even my longest-lasting girlfriend (we dated for months) never introduced me to her friends.
As for not being seen as a provider or protector, you took the words right out of my mouth. Guys on the spectrum, big or small, tend to be the type to avoid street-fights. And even though you make decent money, a lot of us struggle to climb the ladder at work (for the same reasons we struggle socially in general).
Lastly, I'm going to address your comment about selectively socially awkward men. Those men ruin it for the rest of us. We (guys on the spectrum) don't mean to push boundaries; we merely lack the awareness to even realize we're pushing a boundary. But how is the woman supposed to tell the difference between us vs the abusive guys who simply ignore social cues (even though he reads the social cues damn well)?
To be honest I've had a lot of trouble with this whole aggressive guy being desirable stuff, to the point where its affected my life to a fair degree. After I heard that stuff in 2019, I began to act more "thuggish" and "uncaring". Mainly I try to be selfish and extreme to anyway who I don't like. I also got into more street fashion, like the hoodie being a mainstay in my personal wardrobe. Eventually I described myself as an "autistic gangsta" and used the term "sperga" with my friends. I also began to LOATHE the "white nerdy autistic" and since then have sort of mentally picked on these "losers" by justifying it that "you can be mean and get everything you want, its more desirable". I do not like stuff like this being posted personally because eventually people will be inauthentic to themselves, but I do not care. Just wanted to share in interesting viewpoint.
08 Oct 2022, 11:43 am
When I first started college back in the fall of 2016, I was sitting at a lunch table with a bunch of girls along with another guy who was also at the table.
The girls were receptive to me and liked me while they thought the other guy was "creepy" and refused to add him on snapchat. I didn't see anything wrong with the man as he was simply trying to make conversation, but looking back, the girls probably didn't like him because he was poorly dressed and came off as timid and awkward. This was in contrast to me; I was well dressed and trying to act outgoing and confident, which definitely helped.
Nowadays as a 27 year old man, i'd probably be seen as the creepy guy trying to talk to 18-19 year old girls. 
08 Oct 2022, 11:56 am
08 Oct 2022, 12:02 pm
08 Oct 2022, 12:05 pm
Mitchell M. wrote:
SkinnyElephant wrote:
Jayo wrote:
I've always had a certain interest in socio-anthropological psychology, despite being more in the technical field... and while I've since moved on from my younger dating "trial and error" days, married with a family and career, it always got me that us male Aspies lacked the "privilege" of others.
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies! ) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary.
So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
A few years before I was diagnosed (in my early twenties), I saw that some young women had this compulsion to "fix" their boyfriend, and their "ailment" was usually aggression, belligerence, or - heaven forbid - narcissistic personality disorder (yeah, good luck fixing THAT one, ladies!
) And I wondered, well, I've got some kind of unlabelled ailment that causes me to behave and communicate differently from the vast majority, so why doesn't a girl come along and try to "fix" ME?? And it dawned on me even back then, before I'd heard of Aspergers (which it was at the time), that she felt embarrassed to be seen with me, that I'd never be accepted by her social circle, or that she saw me as "weak" in some way. Even though I had good looks and a good body from working out, and worked in IT with a good salary. So, I just viscerally knew from an anthro-psych perspective, that I wouldn't be considered a good protector; I was just thin-sliced as a weirdo and perpetual bully victim who could never be a good provider and protector. Even in our modern techy society, we still have some evo-psych remnants in our mammal brains. At least, the NTs do, more than us.
So then I did some online research, and get this, I found this comment in one forum from a woman which I found ignorant as hell but could understand why she would say/think this (WARNING: this may upset some folks here based on the apparent invalidation of Aspie struggles) - she basically said that not reading nonverbal cues is a sign of testing boundaries (yeah, WTF, right??) - below:
"First, let’s clarify. There are socially awkward men, and then there are the selectively socially awkward men. The second group are absolute nightmares. They’re the guys who blow past your body language and then “have no idea why you’re upset.” I cut these men zero slack, because no one is that clueless. They’re simply betting on the fact that if they blow past the boundaries enough and ignore more subtle signals, they’ll get what they want because women have been socially conditioned not to give a hard no."
When I saw that, I immediately thought back to when I was 21, that I got behind-the-back comments that I was "passive-aggressive" and didn't respect boundaries. And I thought, wow, I'm not the psycho-rapist type at all!! I was more of what they would call "incel" today, I suppose...but to think that there are women out there who would sooner assume that not reading body language is intentional, than an honest oversight.
But maybe I digress a tad.
When I looked at other comments, they were definitely "right between the eyes" and not sugarcoating...sort of along the same lines as the archetypal nice guys, or short guys, or really skinny guys.
"Because she won't feel safe with a socially awkward guy, that's all.
If he's afraid of social situations, how can he protect and provide for her and her children?
Socially awkward men seem weak and low status. Even they are good looking and earn good money, that's still how it is, because at heart, we are still cavemen evolved to deal with hunter gatherer world. The fact that we now have cars, computers and representative government in some places, doesn't change that fact. We're still cavemen."
Lots of good insights. An aggressive or belligerent man is seen as a thrill. A socially awkward man is (unfortunately) seen as lame.
When I was in high school, a classmate I was interested in flat-out told me it would be bad for her reputation if she dated me.
Once I got out of the high school bubble, I was able to date a fair bit during my 20s (Likely due to my good looks, plus the fact I'm only on the spectrum to a mild degree). Before anyone reading my post gets jealous, however, I should mention: Most relationships I've had have been extremely short-lived. My best guess is the girlfriend loses interest once it becomes apparent there's something off with me.
Even my longest-lasting girlfriend (we dated for months) never introduced me to her friends.
As for not being seen as a provider or protector, you took the words right out of my mouth. Guys on the spectrum, big or small, tend to be the type to avoid street-fights. And even though you make decent money, a lot of us struggle to climb the ladder at work (for the same reasons we struggle socially in general).
Lastly, I'm going to address your comment about selectively socially awkward men. Those men ruin it for the rest of us. We (guys on the spectrum) don't mean to push boundaries; we merely lack the awareness to even realize we're pushing a boundary. But how is the woman supposed to tell the difference between us vs the abusive guys who simply ignore social cues (even though he reads the social cues damn well)?
To be honest I've had a lot of trouble with this whole aggressive guy being desirable stuff, to the point where its affected my life to a fair degree. After I heard that stuff in 2019, I began to act more "thuggish" and "uncaring". Mainly I try to be selfish and extreme to anyway who I don't like. I also got into more street fashion, like the hoodie being a mainstay in my personal wardrobe. Eventually I described myself as an "autistic gangsta" and used the term "sperga" with my friends. I also began to LOATHE the "white nerdy autistic" and since then have sort of mentally picked on these "losers" by justifying it that "you can be mean and get everything you want, its more desirable". I do not like stuff like this being posted personally because eventually people will be inauthentic to themselves, but I do not care. Just wanted to share in interesting viewpoint.
When I was in middle school/high school, I went through a stretch where I dressed gangster. In retrospect, I must have looked absurd (nerdy white autistic kid dressing gangster). I didn't act gangster at all.
08 Oct 2022, 12:09 pm
Muse933277 wrote:
When I first started college back in the fall of 2016, I was sitting at a lunch table with a bunch of girls along with another guy who was also at the table.
The girls were receptive to me and liked me while they thought the other guy was "creepy" and refused to add him on snapchat. I didn't see anything wrong with the man as he was simply trying to make conversation, but looking back, the girls probably didn't like him because he was poorly dressed and came off as timid and awkward. This was in contrast to me; I was well dressed and trying to act outgoing and confident, which definitely helped.
Nowadays as a 27 year old man, i'd probably be seen as the creepy guy trying to talk to 18-19 year old girls.
The girls were receptive to me and liked me while they thought the other guy was "creepy" and refused to add him on snapchat. I didn't see anything wrong with the man as he was simply trying to make conversation, but looking back, the girls probably didn't like him because he was poorly dressed and came off as timid and awkward. This was in contrast to me; I was well dressed and trying to act outgoing and confident, which definitely helped.
Nowadays as a 27 year old man, i'd probably be seen as the creepy guy trying to talk to 18-19 year old girls.
I myself am well-dressed. But even so, my lack of social skills make it hard for me to attract a woman.
For every success I've had, I've had far more failures.
Speaking of college, I can relate to the other guy at your table. I remember times in college when I thought I was part of the group. I found out the hard way, however: They merely viewed me as some odd guy who happened to be sitting with them.
08 Oct 2022, 12:17 pm
08 Oct 2022, 12:30 pm
08 Oct 2022, 12:35 pm
08 Oct 2022, 2:12 pm
08 Oct 2022, 3:36 pm
08 Oct 2022, 3:50 pm
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