Three hours of kidology on LTBTQ-cels

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I saw this and figured I had to watch it. She already had one on Femcels and Femcel philosophy, another on non-white or Ethnicels, this one she's going through the LGBTQ analogues. Her channel's overall demographic anthropology of 'cels' is pretty impressive.

Three hours seems excessive.

However, yes - incel ideology is everywhere. It looks different in LGBT spaces, since the dynamics are different, but it's there all the same.

Personally, I think it's worth noting how much when someone comes out in their life and how supportive (or not) their family is to this information factors in. It's ultimately going to be trickier if a person doesn't have support from their family, especially if they're in a situation where they need to gain independence first before they can start being out of the closet and dating. Then you have cost of living and wages as a factor.

Generally speaking, people in the LGBT community tend to start dating and having experiences later than their heterosexual counterparts. I think this is starting to change with the generations younger than me. Which makes me sound old, but my point is that teenagers are beginning to be more open than I was allowed to be at that age. Dating as a teenager simply wasn't an option, it would've been social suicide and that's coming from someone who was already at the bottom of the popularity hierarchy. Unfortunately the wrong people did find out back then and it did not go down well.

So, there are quite a few people who are in my situation. People who start dating in their twenties and are behind most of their heterosexual peers. Granted, I know plenty of straight people who didn't start dating until their twenties. However, it's a bit different since they don't have to deal with coming out and learning where they fit in within gay culture and the dating scene. I think there's a fair amount of pressure to do everything all at once when you come out, sort of as a way to make up lost time.

Frankly it might be overwhelming for some; coming out for the first time and being asked if you're a high femme or a soft butch or a chapstick etc. Learning what all the sublabels mean, how to deal with societal rejection, finding out where good spaces are to meet others in the community and how you can subtly test the waters.

It's definitely easier to come out in your twenties than in your thirties, but not everyone has that luxury. Personally I started coming out to a small amount of people as young as fourteen, which is unusual. Teenage me was pretty reckless and unapologetic though, sadly this significantly backfired. I went back in the closet and came out again at sixteen. Then I came out to my family at eighteen. So I've been out for a while. Not much luck in the romance department though, despite having a predominately LGBT friendship group. However, I do have a first date coming up, so we'll see if that goes anywhere.

Sometimes I realise just how much I know that I otherwise don't give much thought. For instance, there are hand signals you can use to ask if someone is gay and signals to let them know that you are gay. There are ways to tell someone that someone else is bisexual without directly saying the word. I understand what certain jewellery placements mean along with various symbols and coded ways to ask questions without actually asking them. It's a language in its own right. Yet I'm so used to speaking in it that I forget how daunting it can be when you're just finding out about the community.

I still need to watch the rest of it but I got to about 45 minutes in.

The way she separetad 'gaycels' from gay men with depression or body dysmorphia (sort of like the way MondayBlue / BlueMondy / MondayFAMonday drew the distinction between incel and foreveralone, FA, when discussing straight men and women either internalizing or externalizing the problem) was that the depressed / FA types were those who just weren't economically able to spread their wings, lived at home, or felt unattractive. What she did here then with separating 'cels', such as gaycels in this case, was looking for actual claims of environmental mismatch - what really seemed like men who were drawn by personality match, who were slow burn, etc., just not finding the speed and surface-sorting of the community to be in any way conducive to help them finding partners. TBH I get it though, while some of these guys would claim that things are actually worse in the gay community than outside of it - from the gay friends I have it sounds like it's deeply bifurcated, ie. where it's male promiscuity being celebrated it will be looks-sorting on steroids, and while it might be more intense it's probably well less than 100% more intense (not orders of magnitude).

Part of why I'm getting interested in looking at -celdom, aside from really smashing the notion that this is just a bunch of white neo-Nazi males who want wives chained to stoves, barefoot, and pregnant, is that I think the current dating environment (especially the apps) are destroying people who are 'slow-burn'. I'm actually wondering about the term 'demisexual', I've come across it before but.... it's really hard for me to separate that from just being a politer way of saying that someone's K-selected by upbringing and internal dial settings, and I see absolutely no reason why people of all races and sexuality can't run K-selection patterns including gay, lesbian, bi, trans, queer, and this is especially true - you'd think - for introverts, particularly people who have big inner worlds they'd love to share with others and are told by every system that whatever people can't see on their skin simply isn't there or doesn't matter.

It's one of those culturally hot issues where I want to run into the burning building because, when I see people just hopping on to virtue signal at how great they are for not being a -cel and assuming it's all miserable white men who don't shower, brush their teeth, work, etc., that sort of thing makes me even want to pay more attention to it because I can relate to what it's like to have the sense that one was born in the wrong time, place, culture, where you might have a ton of strengths but none of them matter by society's reckoning and then society either only sees your weaknesses or largely ignores your strengths when held against them. At a minimum for 'incel' to be something deserving of a cultural whipping and mockery it would have to be something that only came out as a self-description rather than being a label that other people could lay on a person (then it's just wrong), and even then - I'd much rather see people split the dynamic into its component parts and figure out what it's telling us about what's happening in broader culture.

Another really interesting thing that's coming up in this discussion - women who go on places like Tinder as bi, and even have preference for women, are getting the typical high count of hits from men and none from other women.

That really seems to suggest that there are overload problems based on pursuit dynamics and that effect spills out farther than just pursuer.

Well yeah, I could've told you that. I'm a lesbian who uses Tinder. My settings are set to woman seeking woman. However, for every two female profiles I see, there's a male profile. Sometimes this is just a glitch, people falling through the system, but a significant amount of the time it is intentional.

Tinder allows for a custom gender option. You might be surprised how many men use this to write 'straight man' and then set it to 'I want everyone to see my profile'.

Or sometimes they will set it to 'I am a woman' but then in the bio it'll say something along the lines of 'I am a single father'.

Then there's the couples. Usually they say they're looking for a unicorn, which is just slang for looking for a female third for a casual hookup.

So even if a bisexual woman sets it to woman seeking woman, she's going to see plenty of male profiles who in turn will also see her and will probably like her profile. That's why the amount of likes isn't particularly accurate when you're on this side of Tinder.

If she sets it to looking for a man or woman, then she'll see even more male profiles since there are significantly more men than women on Tinder.

I know a bisexual woman who met her girlfriend, a lesbian, on Tinder. So, it happens. However, it is less likely, statistically. You're better off on other apps if that's what you're looking for. I've basically abandoned my Tinder at this point and have been meaning to delete it. Personally, I've had more luck on other apps.

I was never able to get a date on Tinder. I have gotten dates through other apps.

Plus, Tinder's 75% male. That makes for very poor odds. I think a lot of people sabotage themselves by relying too much on Tinder.

Remember: Tinder wants you to fork over cash. They don't want you to find a relationship.

Yep it makes for an absolutely terrible public dating square, even worse than Twitter's 140 chars makes for a public square.

Clearly not 'neutral' technology.

Even before the era of dating apps, it has always been much easier for bisexual women (especially when young) to find interested men than to find interested women. As a bisexual friend of mine once put it, men are just so much more available. I know this from my own experience too.

Twitter expanded from 140 chars to 280 chars a long time ago. Also, people on Twitter often create threads of multiple tweets to say something longer than 280 characters.