Increasing popularity of friends-first approach
However, absent that conditioning, all manner of response is possible, beside just fight or flight (or freeze).
Disagree. That video proves nothing as the bear seemed more scared of the boy, implying that bears have a genetic memory and instinct. This would strongly suggest the "cultural conditioning" argument is not entirely valid. Also that was a small bear not a large adult 1500lbs bear. Also, if the bear was growling and showing their teeth then the genetic memory instinct would kick in due to millions of years of evolution. In summary, there is some degree of "cultural conditioning" and most have concluded its about a 50/50 mixture of nature and nurture.
Disagree all you like. In summary, you're just "saying stuff".
Again, I think I'll take the word of my professors.
Your argument?
You know "smart" ppl, hence, all you espouse is beyond reproach?
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"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...

Glory to Ukraine.
Not exactly. Go read the research on the visual cliff experiments.
As someone who has a Ph.D in Psychology, is a professor of Psychology, and teaches graduate level courses in Human Development, Personality, and Cognitive Psychology, I can say you are partially correct.
Some fear has been demonstrated to be learned. John Watson demonstrated this with his little Albert study. He was able to condition fear in little Albert of a white rabbit (cue Jefferson Airplane here) where the white rabbit was originally a neutral stimulus-it did not produce fear in Albert.
However, he was able to condition fear in little Albert by pairing the white rabbit with a loud noise, which did produce fear in little Albert. This was the Unconditioned Stimulus and Unconditioned Response. It was unlearned. Little Albert did not need to learn to be afraid of the loud noise (banging two metal rods together in this case), it was reflexive in him. Eventually little Albert did come to fear the white rabbit because of it being paired with the Unconditioned Stimulus of the noise. This made the white rabbit the Conditioned Stimulus and his fear of it the Conditioned Response.
As stated earlier also, behaviorism has found that some stimuli are easier to condition to certain responses than are other stimuli. We do seem to be innately primed for certain stimulus-response pairings, and this includes fear.
Behaviorism isn't the only theory in Psychology either. Evolutionary Psychology, with is an outgrowth of Sociobiology, has found that certain social behaviors do seem to be genetically programmed in humans. David Buss is one of the main figures in this area, and he has written extensively about innate programming and mating behaviors.
If memory serves, one of the criticisms of little Albert being conditioned by using the striking of the rods is that there is no way of knowing that "fear" was the emotion being experienced - as opposed to "overstimulation" or "pain" or "discomfort". The suggestion being that the sound itself didn't create "fear", but rather the sound created surprise, overstimulation, or discomfort, and that "fear" was a response to the discomfort, rather than the sound itself on it's own merit.
To go back to bears, rather than "see bear, feel fear", it's proposed to be more a matter of "see bear, our learning history remembers that bears can cause harm, fear is a response to the awareness of potential harm". Similarly, two bear cubs roaring at each other may not fear the roar, until the roar is accompanied by a bite, too - because the association of harm has not been reinforced yet.
As I mentioned previously, certainly some behaviors are argued to be genetically reinforced, even by behaviorists. Eat, mate, hunt, sleep, sure. In any environment, these things tend to be necessary for survival, either individually or as a species. But it is entirely possible to exist in an environment where there are no dangers from which to learn a fear response. Most behaviors are a response to a need. One will generally always need to eat. If safety is the natural state of things, there is no need to seek safety, from which to generate a response of fear, by way of loss of safety, such as the presence of danger.
Behaviorism and psychology are still at odds in a few matters, and I suspect that's where our perspectives seem to diverge. However, we do seem to also agree on a few points as well. I appreciate your response.
Behaviorism isn't the only theory in Psychology either. Evolutionary Psychology, with is an outgrowth of Sociobiology, has found that certain social behaviors do seem to be genetically programmed in humans. David Buss is one of the main figures in this area, and he has written extensively about innate programming and mating behaviors.
Functional determinism? wasn't that William James?
Oh, No!
My belief system is built on REASON, not FAITH.

BTW,
Could it be that you are a theist if the belief system you prioritise is FAITH-based?
Or was that simply a convenient go-to "casual" statement?
Its probably a manner of speaking
Behaviorism isn't the only theory in Psychology either. Evolutionary Psychology, with is an outgrowth of Sociobiology, has found that certain social behaviors do seem to be genetically programmed in humans. David Buss is one of the main figures in this area, and he has written extensively about innate programming and mating behaviors.
Functional determinism? wasn't that William James?
I advise we leave it to the "Titans" to battle it out.
Let us wait until they wear each other down and THEN go in for the kill, shall we?

Well at least one of them is qualified

Your argument?
You know "smart" ppl, hence, all you espouse is beyond reproach?
I can see why you'd pick that context to go with. Ole'!
However, my actual argument was, since I have been formally taught this stuff, I am more inclined to believe what I have been taught by professionals, than what (random internet person) claims.
At least ProfessorJohn actually cited some relevant credentials (much better than "I'm into history" and "I read stuff"), and actually got into the meat of some material, addressing points agreed upon, points in contention, and the reasoning behind them.
ProfessorJohn likely knows psychology much better than I do. He sounds like one of my professors. I am more likely to listen to him. Still not gonna listen to the (random person who "reads things") Even if ProfessorJohn is lying, he at least took the trouble to make a useful lie that adds validity to what he says. And I believe he said I was at least partially right. It's also worth mentioning that I'm not a psychologist, I'm a behaviorist. There will be some differences in approach.
Behaviorism isn't the only theory in Psychology either. Evolutionary Psychology, with is an outgrowth of Sociobiology, has found that certain social behaviors do seem to be genetically programmed in humans. David Buss is one of the main figures in this area, and he has written extensively about innate programming and mating behaviors.
Functional determinism? wasn't that William James?
I advise we leave it to the "Titans" to battle it out.
Let us wait until they wear each other down and THEN go in for the kill, shall we?

Well at least one of them is qualified

Remind me - what were your credentials again? "Reads stuff"?
Your argument?
You know "smart" ppl, hence, all you espouse is beyond reproach?
I can see why you'd pick that context to go with. Ole'!
However, my actual argument was, since I have been formally taught this stuff, I am more inclined to believe what I have been taught by professionals, than what (random internet person) claims.
At least ProfessorJohn actually cited some relevant credentials (much better than "I'm into history" and "I read stuff"), and actually got into the meat of some material, addressing points agreed upon, points in contention, and the reasoning behind them.
ProfessorJohn likely knows psychology much better than I do. He sounds like one of my professors. I am more likely to listen to him. Still not gonna listen to the (random person who "reads things") Even if ProfessorJohn is lying, he at least took the trouble to make a useful lie that adds validity to what he says. And I believe he said I was at least partially right. It's also worth mentioning that I'm not a psychologist, I'm a behaviorist. There will be some differences in approach.
I find this informative.
The question that begs to be answered is...
_________________
Laughter is the best medicine.
"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...

Glory to Ukraine.
Your argument?
You know "smart" ppl, hence, all you espouse is beyond reproach?
I can see why you'd pick that context to go with. Ole'!
However, my actual argument was, since I have been formally taught this stuff, I am more inclined to believe what I have been taught by professionals, than what (random internet person) claims.
At least ProfessorJohn actually cited some relevant credentials (much better than "I'm into history" and "I read stuff"), and actually got into the meat of some material, addressing points agreed upon, points in contention, and the reasoning behind them.
ProfessorJohn likely knows psychology much better than I do. He sounds like one of my professors. I am more likely to listen to him. Still not gonna listen to the (random person who "reads things") Even if ProfessorJohn is lying, he at least took the trouble to make a useful lie that adds validity to what he says. And I believe he said I was at least partially right. It's also worth mentioning that I'm not a psychologist, I'm a behaviorist. There will be some differences in approach.
I find this informative.
The question that begs to be answered is...
...Why are you so aggressive with ppl?
Wonderful.
I prefer to think of it as being "persistent".
And see? These little differences are exactly why it pays to be friends with someone first - that way you can find out all these little incompatibilities before you make too big of a commitment.
I'm not sure that the "friends first" approach often works at all. In my experience, when you go friends first, the other person thinks that you only want to be friends and when you try to date them later, they think that you were only friends to begin with in order to get into their pants, which feels manipulative. That's when people complain about being "friendzoned". It's better that you both know what your intentions are from the beginning, if it doesn't work out and you still want to remain friends afterwards then that's fine too.
^^^ Thank you Jono
Not everyone here has lost their minds
RetroGamer87
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,546
Location: Adelaide, Australia
I hate friends first. It's so awkward when you ask your friend out and then you get rejected. I haven't openly asked any of my friends out but a couple of times I indirectly hinted at it (so as to reduce my risk of open rejection). I think they knew what I meant. Their indirect rejection of my indirect proportion felt so awkward. For one of those women our friendship quickly faded after that.
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The days are long, but the years are short
RetroGamer87
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,546
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Maybe some of them aren't single you say? Maybe some of them are just swingers? There are a lot of swingers on dating apps but they actually tell you that they're swingers. If they're women who are looking for other women, they'll make that clear in their profile.
I hate the idea of asking a stranger out when maybe she already has a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband or wife or maybe she's single but she wishes to remain single.
On dating apps I can read through their profile and find out that she's single but wish to remain so, that they're looking for a man and they're not currently married. That kind of clarity is invaluable to me!
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The days are long, but the years are short
Rexi
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Joined: 3 Sep 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,388
Location: "I know there's nothing we can do. But my heart can't accept it." "If this is real, then I want to change the future."
Not exactly. Go read the research on the visual cliff experiments.
As someone who has a Ph.D in Psychology, is a professor of Psychology, and teaches graduate level courses in Human Development, Personality, and Cognitive Psychology, I can say you are partially correct.
Perhaps we have a NEW contender for "Smartest Person in the Room".

Off-topic:
As a professor of psychology, do you think it prudent for a stranger to maintain being skeptical as to your qualifications, since there is no validation at this point, erm, validating your assertion that you are indeed a professor of Psychology?
To be klear, I am not challenging you here.
Simply assessing...

Pax...
BTW,
Are you on the autistic spectrum?
Smart egg like birb.
Certain parrots take a while for their first flight, they don't like to actually throw themselves down the wind their first time. If they fall in the water and don't manage to fly they die. Only the best fed chick survives.
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My Pepe Le Skunk. I have so much faith in our love for one another. Thanks for being an amazing partner.


Any topic, PM me; mind my profile.
A LOT of ppl WERE friends first.
It depends on the people involved.
I was friends with my present partner for around 2 years or so before we became partners in crime.
_________________
Laughter is the best medicine.
"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...

Glory to Ukraine.
It's actually a no-brainer when you think about it
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