Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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When I'm referring to "nice guys", I'm referring to men who treat people with respect and who have a strict moral code they do not break even if it gives them personal benefits. Men who manipulate women by playing a role to come off as caring and kind while they actually don't give a **** are just ^@$$holes in disguise and by no definition applicable for the label "nice guys".



Actually, those shy guys are a subgroup of the men I refer to as nice guys because they actually tend to be nice. You seem to be making up your own definitions, possibly based on personal experiences with wolves in sheep's clothing.



What a bunch of sexist BS ! I used to be very much like the guys described in this article and this is true for most guys who are insecure and not used to women giving them any positive attention. This sort of attitude is precisely why I find it hard not to loathe most women that are out there. On one hand they complain they want to be treated as equals to men, yet on the other hand they look down upon men who are genuinely sensitive, vulnerable and insecure.

While it is true that pretty much every one of my ex-girlfriends did end up having neuroses, problems and personality disorders, this was not because I deliberately picked them but rather because they were the only women to ever notice me at all and in fact the only women I could remotely relate to. I trusted them, I cared for them and loved them with all my heart. While I did use to put women on a pedestal, this was not because I disliked who I was but because I admired every aspect about them. I was actually quite satisfied with myself, but I did dislike the fact that other people were unwilling to accept me for who I am. There was nothing I could do to change that besides pretending to be someone else and that's something I've always refused to do.

By the way, I never had any trouble with emotional intimacy and in fact my current girlfriend was surprised by how fast I opened up to her. In fact, in most cares my ex-girlfriends had far more trouble with emotional intimacy than I had (this is true for my current girlfriend as well). This is quite uncommon among men, however, but that's not because they are afraid women might not like them if they opened up but rather because they're not used to sharing their emotions with others. Unlike women, most sensitive men tend to keep their emotions for themselves and don't even address them with their male friends. I suspect this is largely due to cultural bias.

These "heartless b*****s" may not actually be heartless b*****s but their writings do show a total lack of insight in the male psyche and an utter lack of respect for men.

I don't think that nice guys finish last. I think that pushovers finish last, both in life and with the ladies. There's a big difference between being polite or considerate and leaving all the hard choices up to everyone else. When is it time to take things to the next level? Where should we go to eat? When she wants to? Where she wants to? That's an awful lot of burden to place on someone else, and if that's how you treat a woman you're courting, what exactly do you bring to the table?

People like to be pushed into things they "don't" want to do, or at least be gently nudged in the general direction without being asked for permission. It gives them an excuse to do what they actually do want to do, because hey... you didn't ask for permission. Might as well give in, right? They can pin it all on you, let you carry the weight. It feels good to share that responsibility with someone else, and that's what relationships are all about.

Aside from that, women like to know that you really want something, whether it's them you want or the activity the two of you have planned. They want to please you as much as you want to please them, and if you're always looking out for her first and foremost, how will she ever know if you ever really want anything?

It's really, really easy to do something that someone else wants. It makes you feel good inside, safe and secure. It also makes your partner feel guilty after a while. Nobody likes that. If you're a so-called nice guy, learn how to be nice without feeling guilty for indulging yourself. Your happiness should be your number one priority, followed very closely by hers. Followed being the key word. That will make her happy.

Relationships are give and take, and people who don't know how to fairly take just aren't a healthy part of that.

Salonfilosoof wrote: "Would you have given him a chance if you had not understood why he was giving out too much personal information or write things that were inappropriate? Maybe you would because you have Asperger's yourself, but most neurotypical women would immediately be turned off. That's the problem men with Asperger's face and it is very difficult to find a woman capable of looking beyond that initial reaction."

At the time I met him, I hadn't been diagnosed with Asperger's, and in fact had never heard of it. He had no idea either. We just thought that we were a couple of oddballs. It wasn't until later, when I was working with a state agency that serves individuals with mental retardation and autism spectrum disorders that I figured out what was causing my "differences". I would read medical histories and meet the clients and think, "That's ME." I then went and got an "official" diagnosis. My husband still wouldn't buy his being an aspie until his grandson was diagnosed with it in pre-school.

I understand that most NT women cannot understand an asperger's man, which unfortunately narrows the pool of available ladies, but you have to look at it this way: You gotta have somebody who understands your quirks. How miserable would a marriage be in which both parties were not accepting of each other's issues that can't be changed? Weight can be changed, clothes can be changed, but somebody's reactions in social situations or stubborn adherence to their daily routine cannot change (at least, not by much). My previous marriage had been to an NT, and he never understood my social awkwardness, shyness, or how I could yammer on forever about one subject that he couldn't care less about.

Your quest may be a longer one that your NT brother who has the slick pickup lines and the moves, but there are many really wonderful women out there, even NTs who would love you no matter what, so it is still a worthwhile endeavor. Our aspie cross to bear is trying to make worthwhile, pain-free connections to other human beings, while being ill-equipped to do so. So yeah, we end up getting hurt a lot more than an NT (in my opinion), but when it finally does work out, it's spectacular.

I love how you complain that the women at Heartless b*****s are sexist, yet in the same paragraph you say you have a hard time not loathing women. You are obviously the sexist here, not those women.

Being a pushover or not is not the issue, but rather being good at manipulating women and being willing to do it.



Sometimes a man just doesn't care at all. Why should he pick the location if he doesn't have any preference while she might? I understand women tend to find attractive but this kind of irrational behavior is just incredibly annoying.

Anyway, I always say what I really want if I actually do care. That's never been an issue for me.



Sometimes, whatever makes her happy makes me happy. I have a strong opinion about many things but when it comes to eg. picking out a location to go out I rarely ever care at all. In fact, it annoys the **** out of me when I'm forced to choose a location and it doesn't really matter to me. If I were to put my happiness first, I would always let her pick the location.



Some guys just don't care about taking very much if they feel perfectly happy that way. There is nothing unhealthy about that and the problem does not lie with the men but rather with the women who are unwilling to accept their partner as he is.



I recently did meet a woman who appears to be willing to accept me for who I am and who actually thinks Sheldon from "The Big Bang Theory" (a genius with every Asperger's trait in the book) is adorable. Still, we've only known each other for a few weeks and it's very reasonable to believe this may change as time progresses since it's not the first time I met a woman who I believed to accept me for who I was.



I have a hard time nog loathing MOST women (this doesn't apply to ALL women but rather to stereotypical women) because I find it incredibly difficult to meet a woman who isn't petty, ignorant, irrational, narrowminded, arrogant and shallow. These "Heartless b*****s" are a perfect illustration thereof. Of course men are afflicted by this as well, but in my experience it's not nearly to the same degree.

Methinks you just have horrible taste.

The kind of women I'm attracted to, is the minority that isn't petty, ignorant, irrational, narrowminded, arrogant and shallow. In what way does that imply a bad taste?

I don't think that's the kind of women you've been asking out. You're probably asking out stupid bimbos you think are physically attractive. Either that, or you don't know many women.

Whichever, I think you should move your misogynistic ass to Saudi Arabia. You'll meet lots of people with similar attitudes about women there.

1 : I'm referring not just to the majority of women I've been asking out but to the majority of women in general. And yes, I have met enough women to be able to judge.
2 : I avoid "stupid bimbos" altogether. They're definitely NOT the kind of woman I date.
3 : I guess you're pretty petty, ignorant, irrational, narrowminded, arrogant and shallow yourself. That would explain why you don't have a clue. In fact, your false presumptions and offensive attitude are stereotypical behavior for that kind of people.



It's not a matter of misogynism. I find the majority of men to be petty, ignorant, irrational, narrowminded, arrogant and shallow as well. Women are just worse than men in that area because they're more driven by their emotions than men.

Why should I believe you?

Last edited by BrandonSP on 13 Jul 2010, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Is it really impossible for you to discuss this topic without throwing insults in each and every post you make?!

Grow up!

Evil bigots like you deserve to be insulted. People like you are the cause of so many of the world's problems. Millions have been killed and oppressed because of people like you.

I hope you spend the rest of your miserable life without any woman to warm your bed.

So just because I object to the pettiness, ignorance, irrationality, narrowmindedness, arrogance and shallowness of the average person out there that makes me a bigot? Maybe you should look in the mirror considering your behavior couldn't be more bigoted.



Keep hoping, because I do have a girlfriend... She's one of those race exceptions

Salonfilosoof, I must apologize for the way I have talked towards you. I got upset, lost control, and said nasty things to you that I shouldn't have. It was immature of me and I am sorry.

Apology accepted...

Are really just liars. Guys who say anything to avoid conflict. The best way to be a "Bad" boy is to be bluntly honest. Try it. See the dialogue it opens up.
Q "How do my boots look?"
A "Did you skin the Hobo Yourself?"

Assertiveness is overated. There is a seductive behavior called coquettishnes that can be devastating if you have the right tools to use it. Think James Dean. In fact could quite possibly be the best tool we in particular could use. We just have to try real hard not to talk much and keep our replies as vague as possible. Try not to express your emotions with anything but your eyes and only make eye contact for a split second.

Also a trait of a "Bad Boy" is his ability to prove himself. This is difficult for us but we have to be willing to stand up to people when the time comes and we have to be ready for it. That means not backing down when there is a threat to bodily harm.

We tend to have incredible intellectual talents but to broadcast them shows insecurity so we have to allow them to be discovered indirectly.

However I realize that when we interact with our own kind we are free to be ourselves. We don't have to play games. we can say whats on our mind. Me and my ex were both aspies but one of the things that broke us up was her need to bring her NT facade home with her and her insistance that I do the same.