Nice guys article -- good article and comments

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ZakFiend
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05 Sep 2008, 3:15 am

Magnus
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05 Sep 2008, 4:09 am

It's a broken record from nice guys. From where I see things, nice guys are the cream of the crop. Maybe the females need to change.
I think that a lot of aspiettes would be willing to have casual sex with nice guys but because of our culture, they are afraid to be the black sheep. :roll:

I propose we females bow down to our intellectual "brothers" and show them love and compassion. There are so many perverted aspects of sexuality that dominate our society. I say we rise against the status quo and show some respect for one another.
Aggression, submission, and power are NT characteristics.

We should stick to our ideals by choosing selectively if we are leaders 8)
And for the followers, let them have their cake and eat it too. :lol:


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Last edited by Magnus on 05 Sep 2008, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LePetitPrince
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05 Sep 2008, 9:01 am

Quote:
8. Posted by stevelabelle123 on Sat, Oct 27, 2007

Ok lets make it simple. Most nice guys that are nice, usually are cute or average in looks . What they lack in LOOKS!! ! they make up for, by trying to be perfect. Face it most women go for Bad boys cause their hot. They have big confidence, muscles , tattoos , tans or maybe their hair is long and bleached or their just plain old hot. These guys get hit on by more NICE girls all the time . Their so used to chicks that wanna hook with up them their egos swell. Women created their own destiny and same with man. Listen men and women are attracted physically and mentally. When your in a public place looking at one and other with no words only physical attraction will work . General consensus but not all. Nice guy = cute to average looks. Bad = ravaging sex machine ! !!!awake all night. But how many girls marry bad boys? none! They all marry the average looking blokes with the most cash . They think of their children's future surely and i would never blame them either . . Whats worse wanting a trophy wife or having to be one . Id say wanting a trophy wife is worse but their seems to be allot of suckers out there so its looks like a balance. But when you hear a guy say "but im so nice" , LOOK at him!! is he HOT, I doubt it cause if he was , their would be 20 phone numbers in his black book. Face it nice guy your NICE but your not HOT .I hang out with my one friend and he literally has to push girls away at the bar .Its no wonder he is always cheating and breaking up with his girlfriends . Girls are no worse than men, at wanting whats hot. .


that was the best comment and the most honest, I respect direct honesty.

As I always said , girls love masculinity in men and most jerk men have masculine looks , women like them for their masculinity and not for their jerkness.
An equivalent masculine nice guy would attract women as much as a masculine jerk guy (and maybe more) but the fact is that most nice guys aren't ...well...very masculine.

Just think about the male bullies at school, most bullies are tall and strong and most male bullying-victims are weak and tiny , there are many exception from both sides but notice the word 'most' .While growing up most of the jerk bullies turn out to jerk guys , they gain confidence by the process due to their physical superiority while most victims (who are initially not very masculine) become nice guys in adulthood and usually grow-up with poor self-esteem and social confidence (and that's another turnoff).

Women are attracted to the masculine traits in those jerk men and not to their jerkness , Sometimes those masculine traits make women ,especially the young ones., blindly attracted to them.



Magnus
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05 Sep 2008, 12:45 pm

We need a new sexual revolution and we should treat each other with dignity and respect.
In the future, hopefully our gene pools won't be so contaminated by jerks.


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AutisticMalcontent
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07 Sep 2008, 1:54 pm

Magnus wrote:
It's a broken record from nice guys. From where I see things, nice guys are the cream of the crop. Maybe the females need to change.
I think that a lot of aspiettes would be willing to have casual sex with nice guys but because of our culture, they are afraid to be the black sheep. :roll:

I propose we females bow down to our intellectual "brothers" and show them love and compassion. There are so many perverted aspects of sexuality that dominate our society. I say we rise against the status quo and show some respect for one another.
Aggression, submission, and power are NT characteristics.

We should stick to our ideals by choosing selectively if we are leaders 8)
And for the followers, let them have their cake and eat it too. :lol:


Agreed, it is a broken record that keeps on playing on and on. I'm impressed that you think nice guys are the creme de le creme, either you are a minority of teenage girls/young adult women, or perhaps you have learned the hard way and spent time with jerks and learned that nice guys were good. I don't know how old you are Magnus, but you saying that nice guys are the cream of the crop makes me believe you're older, perhaps mid 20's to 30's, and therefore wiser. I believe that extroverted women who are older and more "settled" down will look for nice guys/introverts for stability. Opposites attract (supposedly), an extrovert helps an introvert communicate better socially, and the introvert provides a stable base of relaxation for the extrovert when they want to take it easy.

I digress, so I shall continue on. You said "Maybe the females need to change.
I think that a lot of aspiettes would be willing to have casual sex with nice guys but because of our culture, they are afraid to be the black sheep". I would argue that females, autistic or not, will never change until they are older and wiser. As the article said, because girls are so nice all the time, they want something more radical and aggressive to subtract from their mild mannerisms. Perhaps not true of all girls, but I see what the article meant. I can relate, I'm so nice all the time that I want to feel anger and power at times, because I am lacking in it very often.

You mentioning that "I propose we females bow down to our intellectual "brothers" and show them love and compassion" will never happen until women are older and wiser. They will have to get rid of this "hot-blooded bad-boy wanting" streak sooner of later, it is unrealistic. Besides the mentioning of females bowing down to their "intellectual brothers" is a bit submissive sounding, females and males should be equal to each other, not subservient. As for "casual sex", some autistic guys may want that, but what is sex worth? Yes, it may feel wonderful, but I think a lot of autistic guys want relationships, stability, opposed to the triviality of one night stands. What is love without stability? It is nothing but a worthless fling of emotions into a downward fall of loneliness.


Magnus wrote:
We need a new sexual revolution and we should treat each other with dignity and respect.
In the future, hopefully our gene pools won't be so contaminated by jerks.


Idealistically it sounds wonderful, in practicality, it will never happen. Why? Because this is not a utopia, people have many different ideas and beliefs on what "love" is. The United States/American culture is a masculine culture, favoring things like achievement, power, aggression, wealth, status, fame, glory, etc. We are lacking in feminine-like culture traits, such as caring for others, being kind, being respectful, etc. This is why men are portrayed as strong, tough, and muscular, and women are portrayed as objects of sexual affection and desire opposed to actual human beings. Jerks will always be around, and women will always swoon over them, this is the nature of things, the immaturity of both men and women.



Magnus
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07 Sep 2008, 5:09 pm

I agree with you on a lot of points and you express yourself very well. I am 33 yrs old and I'm passed the point of trying to fit in.
Looking back to my early 20's, I remember girls sticking up their noses and trying to be the most unattainable and attractive female.
They would go so far as to spread vicious lies about one another. They protected their reputations as if they were standing in line to meet the prince or something.

Now, I look around and young girls are trying to emulate Paris Hilton :cry: and they listen to that song about a girl kissing a girl and suddenly it is cool for them to be promiscuous. 8O Still, they think that the jerk guys are so cool and the rich guys are also a top choice.
A lot of those girls are just dumb, and I'm sorry to say it that way but, they just are the type of people that have original ideas and opinions. They certainly will not stand up for a just cause or stick their neck out on an issue like this.

So, forget those girls and let's keep it in the AS pack. Aspiettes are different and their minds are more independent. This is stereotypical but for the sake of trying to get a grasp on this, let's just forget about political correctness for a moment and use common sense.
I'm not going to explain the differences but you do some of your own research on that.

If AS people act naturally and females are submissive, that means no more NT games. If males are assumed to have the power then the females will not have to play that game and we get to the next level which is friendship and sex. The only way this could work is if the males act with integrity and honesty. That means no back stabbing and bragging after sex, and continue with the friendship.
Since nice guys already are more trustworthy I do believe that we can take a leap forward and our sexual nature will evolve. For those women who cringe at this idea, I want you to realize that by dropping your ego you allow for a more harmonious environment for humans to express love for one another. Peace, positive evolution, and happiness is more important than your wanting to be a princess or be admired like an idol or model. The goal is for the common good of mankind and it's not all about you.

I also believe that males should be allowed to engage in homosexual sex and not be judged. I love Socrates and he believed that this allowed for intellectual growth and necessary sexual relief. Same goes for women.

Look up bonobo chimps and common chimps. Common chimps are more like NT's and they are the ones who have war and hunt and things like infanticide are much more prevalent in that species.

One more thing I want to add to my opinions on this: I do believe that the ideal relationship is the individual with God, second to that is the Male/Female soul mate connection or the completion of the Yin/Yang.
We shouldn't judge if others cannot reach these levels, but we all should try to progress up to this. In the meantime, we'll need to express our animal nature in a healthy and non-harming way.


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As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.

-Pythagoras


LePetitPrince
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07 Sep 2008, 5:34 pm

^^ feminists will shoot you down.


Quote:
They protected their reputations as if they were standing in line to meet the prince or something.


Oh really? I am going to wear something nice then....



AutisticMalcontent
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07 Sep 2008, 10:55 pm

Magnus wrote:
So, forget those girls and let's keep it in the AS pack. Aspiettes are different and their minds are more independent. This is stereotypical but for the sake of trying to get a grasp on this, let's just forget about political correctness for a moment and use common sense.
I'm not going to explain the differences but you do some of your own research on that.

If AS people act naturally and females are submissive, that means no more NT games. If males are assumed to have the power then the females will not have to play that game and we get to the next level which is friendship and sex. The only way this could work is if the males act with integrity and honesty. That means no back stabbing and bragging after sex, and continue with the friendship.
Since nice guys already are more trustworthy I do believe that we can take a leap forward and our sexual nature will evolve. For those women who cringe at this idea, I want you to realize that by dropping your ego you allow for a more harmonious environment for humans to express love for one another. Peace, positive evolution, and happiness is more important than your wanting to be a princess or be admired like an idol or model. The goal is for the common good of mankind and it's not all about you.

I also believe that males should be allowed to engage in homosexual sex and not be judged. I love Socrates and he believed that this allowed for intellectual growth and necessary sexual relief. Same goes for women.



Now if I'm not entirely mistakened, you were referring strictly to "aspiettes" as you called them. "If AS people act naturally and females are submissive, that means no more NT games". So are you saying that aspie guys and aspiettes should be together romantically because there wouldn't be any mind games and because aspiettes are naturally introverted, which would work naturally very well with the aspie guys.

If this is your reasoning, as I assume it is, I like it :wink: However, I will give you my opinion on your idea. I think that theoretically, it sound wonderful, but it practicality, I question its effectiveness. Let's put this into consideration, we are a very select minority of people who have slight autism in this world. I don't know how many people have slight autism in this world, but the fact is, neurotypical people will ALWAYS outnumber us, they are the majority. Therefore it is extremely diffucult to find our fellow aspies since everyone we know, for the most part, is neurotypical.
The only feasible way I could see this working is if there was a dating website strictly for aspies in every state. But let's be entirely honest, how many people would get involved in such a dating service? Some people may be afraid/ashamed of being autistic and will refuse to engage in such a service.

The truth of the matter is, we have to take (in a sense) what we are given, and that for the most part is neurotypicals. I'm pretty sure that you have dated neurotypicals, because they were simply the only ones around.

We know that neurotypicals, because of their pride, arrogance, ego, and strong beliefs, will never change into that sexual revolution. Autistic guys and girls have a higher rate of pulling it off, but we are sparsely located, so it is difficult to find our fellow aspies.

As for homosexuals, that is your personal belief. I have my own belief concerning that, but I won't start an arguement about what is more morally correct or not. But I'm sure you can understand my concerns over this.



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08 Sep 2008, 1:23 am

It could work if we lived in a commune. I think it would not only allow us to evolve culturally, but also genetically. There would be a higher rate of autistics being born of course. Maybe at first there would be LFA's but we would be better at understanding this and helping them fit in and not expose them to so many toxins which could cause further damage. There would also be at least a 1 out of 10 chance that our offspring would be a genius. One genius can change the world. That is just the first generation.
Imagine what would happen after that. I think that NT's would admire this after a while and maybe we can set a good example.
Are you happy with the world as it is? Maybe there is a reason why we are here and maybe we don't have to suffer to fit in to such an apathetic world.


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As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.

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08 Sep 2008, 5:05 am

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/wdc/205576820.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Nice-Guys ... id=1295678

^written by ladies

it seems that even women confuse between 'jerkness' and masculinity. Aggressiveness ,confidence and courage are masculine traits and not jerkness.



Betterclassed
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08 Sep 2008, 9:09 am

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
As for homosexuals, that is your personal belief. I have my own belief concerning that, but I won't start an arguement about what is more morally correct or not. But I'm sure you can understand my concerns over this.


Homosexuallity has nothing to do with morality, it does have a lot to do with biology and fact that children will never spawn from it. Those who "believe it" to be immoral are really just religious, indoctrinated into thinking it is immoral (usually christian). Morality is separate from religion but that is a topic is for another time and part of the forum. Anywho, now when it comes to nice guys I think we are kind wrong. It is sort messed up. I really don't see why a "nice guy" really needs to be introverted, I really don't. I don't see how confidence, high self-esteem and well just interesting to be with behavior stems only from the types that people consider to be jerks. In reality I think these so call jerks are more of a combination of good qualities of both sides of the stereotypes. I know there are some that really are jerks but well stereotypes getting old fast. Magnus, I'm sorry you have met these "jerks" but just because the guy is extroverted doesn't mean that bad treatment will follow.

Magnus wrote:
I agree with you on a lot of points and you express yourself very well. I am 33 yrs old and I'm passed the point of trying to fit in.
Looking back to my early 20's, I remember girls sticking up their noses and trying to be the most unattainable and attractive female.
They would go so far as to spread vicious lies about one another. They protected their reputations as if they were standing in line to meet the prince or something.

Now, I look around and young girls are trying to emulate Paris Hilton and they listen to that song about a girl kissing a girl and suddenly it is cool for them to be promiscuous. Still, they think that the jerk guys are so cool and the rich guys are also a top choice.
A lot of those girls are just dumb, and I'm sorry to say it that way but, they just are the type of people that have original ideas and opinions. They certainly will not stand up for a just cause or stick their neck out on an issue like this.

So, forget those girls and let's keep it in the AS pack. Aspiettes are different and their minds are more independent. This is stereotypical but for the sake of trying to get a grasp on this, let's just forget about political correctness for a moment and use common sense.
I'm not going to explain the differences but you do some of your own research on that.

If AS people act naturally and females are submissive, that means no more NT games. If males are assumed to have the power then the females will not have to play that game and we get to the next level which is friendship and sex. The only way this could work is if the males act with integrity and honesty. That means no back stabbing and bragging after sex, and continue with the friendship.
Since nice guys already are more trustworthy I do believe that we can take a leap forward and our sexual nature will evolve. For those women who cringe at this idea, I want you to realize that by dropping your ego you allow for a more harmonious environment for humans to express love for one another. Peace, positive evolution, and happiness is more important than your wanting to be a princess or be admired like an idol or model. The goal is for the common good of mankind and it's not all about you.

I also believe that males should be allowed to engage in homosexual sex and not be judged. I love Socrates and he believed that this allowed for intellectual growth and necessary sexual relief. Same goes for women.

Look up bonobo chimps and common chimps. Common chimps are more like NT's and they are the ones who have war and hunt and things like infanticide are much more prevalent in that species.

One more thing I want to add to my opinions on this: I do believe that the ideal relationship is the individual with God, second to that is the Male/Female soul mate connection or the completion of the Yin/Yang.
We shouldn't judge if others cannot reach these levels, but we all should try to progress up to this. In the meantime, we'll need to express our animal nature in a healthy and non-harming way.


Since when did intellectual growth could come from being a homosexual. WTF? Not all AS guys are what you call "natural". I being asperger's, AS or whatever you would like to call it, tend to more extroverted. No, I'm not an "ass". I'm just interesting. You know why girls don't go for the "your version of a nice guy" they're unnoticible. They're quiet and keep to themselves. Not many women are made to react to this in the way you're hoping to. There is reason for this, the religious call it "bullS*(" and the scientists call it "evolution". Man grew up through the ages to be strong so that the family may kept save from harm. The quiet types don't really fit this description. Anywho, why not settle for combination of the two as I have said above.

Now for the emulate Paris Hilton stuff. These girls are "young" and "naive". Too young and naive in fact yet to realise how stupid they're acting. They'll grow out of it, eventually. Much like what young girls and some "boys" do with Hannah Montanna music and the television show when they get older.



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08 Sep 2008, 10:40 am

It would seem that extroversion is regarded as a "masculine" trait, whereas introversion is regarded as a more "feminine" trait. This is BS, of course, but it's one reason why shy guys have a much harder time getting relationships than shy girls. My solution is to abolish the idea that only guys should initiate... I think girls should start bearing more of this burden... they should start asking guys out more often. And why not? Women are showing that they're just as capable of fulfilling the same roles that men have traditionally fulfilled. Our society is becoming more gender equal.

Betterclassed wrote:
I really don't see why a "nice guy" really needs to be introverted, I really don't.

That's because you don't know what it's like to be an introvert. It's not a question of putting ourselves in a "shell"... it's just how we are. I simply don't enjoy social interaction very much. Don't get me wrong, I do like it sometimes if the people are friendly enough, but the problem is that social interaction creates a lot of stress for me. I'm not very good with communication, and I don't like having to worry about the impression I give to other people, or what is socially "acceptable." That's why I prefer activities which don't involve other people.



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08 Sep 2008, 11:23 am

Magnus wrote:
It could work if we lived in a commune. I think it would not only allow us to evolve culturally, but also genetically. There would be a higher rate of autistics being born of course. Maybe at first there would be LFA's but we would be better at understanding this and helping them fit in and not expose them to so many toxins which could cause further damage. There would also be at least a 1 out of 10 chance that our offspring would be a genius. One genius can change the world. That is just the first generation.
Imagine what would happen after that. I think that NT's would admire this after a while and maybe we can set a good example.
Are you happy with the world as it is? Maybe there is a reason why we are here and maybe we don't have to suffer to fit in to such an apathetic world.


I respect your opinion on what we should do to be around our fellow aspies, but I must respectfully disagree with your statement. The idea of a commune is too isolationist for my personal taste. Although isolationism is used to describe a nation that doesn't intervene with other countries militaristically and a country that lives basically on their own economy with the help of no other nations, I apply it to the idea of an autistic commune. I have no objection to a autistic guy and gal falling in love and getting married and having kids, but to have a commune dedicated to autistic living is a bit much. After all, we are ALMOST neurotypical, there is only one piece of the human puzzle that is missing from us. It isn't like we have any extreme ethnic or cultural differences between our neurotypical brethern.

As for having a "genius" baby, that doesn't really concern me much. What is intelligence really but a way to adapt one's self to his enviroment to survive?

I think neurotypicals would consider us even more eccentric than before if we lived in a commune. I think they would think of it in the same fashion a Christian might think of the Waco Facility, or numerous other cults. I think the truth of the matter is this... Neurotypicals are very self-absorbed with their lives, things that do not concern them mean nothing to them. Even autistic people are the same way. I've heard about diasasters (sp?) in the news about earthquakes and hurricanes hitting Asia or other areas, and quite frankly, I did not care about it. I think my idea of a slightly autistic dating service is low key enough not to gain the media's attention, but at the same time autistic people can find themselves and date.



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08 Sep 2008, 12:26 pm

Quote:
My solution is to abolish the idea that only guys should initiate... I think girls should start bearing more of this burden... they should start asking guys out more often


You are kidding,right? Why girls would even reverse this rule when this specific rule is on their favor? It's one of the advantages of being female in the dating world , why females would give it away with nothing in return?



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08 Sep 2008, 4:18 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Quote:
My solution is to abolish the idea that only guys should initiate... I think girls should start bearing more of this burden... they should start asking guys out more often


You are kidding,right? Why girls would even reverse this rule when this specific rule is on their favor? It's one of the advantages of being female in the dating world , why females would give it away with nothing in return?

I guess it depends on the woman and whether she sees it as an "advantage" or not. Not all women have the exact same taste in men, and some of them would rather not be limited to extroverted guys. The only problem is that we have a culture with misguided ideas about what "gender" means... so women are made to feel bad if they initiate, and guys are made to feel bad if they don't initiate.