I need to know why society think its ok to lie?

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AceOfSpades
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13 Apr 2009, 4:29 pm

It's called taking a hint. Spokane_Girl is right about you...



deadeyexx
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13 Apr 2009, 4:38 pm

KenM wrote:
Can someone explain to me when a women says "I just want to be friends" when they want nothing to do with you is being honest? Because thats what I'm wondering. In there mind they are being honset. But it does not fit the defintion of honesty. They are saying one thing but meaning something totally different.


It's more complicated than that. First of all, it rarely means they want nothing to do with you. It usually means that they feel awkward around you since they don't want what you do, but you keep persisting. Stop putting her on the spot, act like her friend, & she'll be it.

You also seem to think women have absolute knowledge & control of everything when in reality they're just as clueless as us. White lies are merely a deflection to avoid giving an awkward answer, & everyone does it; even you probably have. Just women tend to need to do it more. If someone asked you to do something right away & you really didn't want to, you'd likely say "not right now, I've gotta go" even when you don't have to, or at least not as quickly as you say. Certianly more friendly than "I don't really care to help you". People do it all the time; most of the time not even realizing it.

Don't push people into giving you answers you don't want to hear if you don't wanna hear white lies?



KenM
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13 Apr 2009, 5:05 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
It's called taking a hint. Spokane_Girl is right about you...


Yes she knows me so good, can read me like a book. :roll:



Who_Am_I
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13 Apr 2009, 6:44 pm

KenM wrote:
Can someone explain to me when a women says "I just want to be friends" when they want nothing to do with you is being honest? Because thats what I'm wondering. In there mind they are being honset. But it does not fit the defintion of honesty. They are saying one thing but meaning something totally different.




Because it is commonly understood that "I just want to be friends" is code for "I'm not interested in you at all". These women are operating under the assumption that everyone understands these codes; and it is not lying to say something that means another thing when you think that the person you are speaking to will know what was actually meant.


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makuranososhi
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13 Apr 2009, 8:51 pm

*deep breath*

To many people, words are algebra - the same symbol can have variable meanings depending the context (equation). You're just solving for different problems.


M.


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GhostsInTheWallpaper
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13 Apr 2009, 11:03 pm

As people have mentioned here, most people lie because it's considered proper etiquette in certain situations where telling the truth is seen as aggressive. And as others have also mentioned, sometimes by "friends" people really mean "acquaintances who are not on bad terms."

That said, I've heard that many ex-partners cannot easily remain on good terms.

And also, "let's be friends" is understood almost universally by NTs as meaning "back off," and we NTs don't tend to know if someone's an Aspie unless they tell us. (Or if someone else who knows them tells us. I met my bf through his best friend, who told me that my bf is an Aspie...and I also heard stuff about my stepsisters' mother's current husband that made me think he was almost surely even farther on the spectrum than my boyfriend. And he does move like a Spectrumite, though I still have never talked to him.)

If you specifically asked them to be honest, well...keep this in mind: we NTs often learn to assume, via experience, that other people (presumed to be NT, since non-autistic people make up about 99.4% of the population) lie. So they might not have believed you that you would actually be happier to have them be honest with you.

Not to mention that anyone being needy, be they male or female, is a turn-off to those romantically interested. So if you come on too strong, or too creepy, you will scare people away. Even Aspie people. My bf was scared away by a woman with dysgraphia, epilepsy, and probably some other neurological quirk, who is very needy. Then again, he has also traditionally been scared away by NTs who just wanted a normal romantic/sexual relationship with him, because too much sexual expression is against his "rules," which are basically baggage left over from his growing up where he believes that if he tries anything new he might face social rejection or other dire consequences. He has overturned "rules" gradually as he has wanted new things in life and drifted away from his older, narrower, more religious social circles and lived more according to his nonbelieving heart.

So basically, these people were specifically trying NOT to hurt you, while also letting you know that they, in their current states, did not feel that you in your current state would be a good partner for them. They could have not lied to you, but you'd probably still be here angsting out about how they always reject you.


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KenM
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14 Apr 2009, 5:01 am

GhostsInTheWallpaper wrote:

If you specifically asked them to be honest, well...keep this in mind: we NTs often learn to assume, via experience, that other people (presumed to be NT, since non-autistic people make up about 99.4% of the population) lie. So they might not have believed you that you would actually be happier to have them be honest with you.


So basically, these people were specifically trying NOT to hurt you, while also letting you know that they, in their current states, did not feel that you in your current state would be a good partner for them. They could have not lied to you, but you'd probably still be here angsting out about how they always reject you.



I've said before that I have had a few women tell me flat out they are not interested and want nothing to do woth me. I have no ill will towards them and I respect them more for being honest. I have told everyone to be honest and most totally disrespect me by misleading me. I don't tell them I have AS. But i do tell them I take what you say literally, I can't read body languge, vocal tone, ect.. I take what you say as what you mean. But they still say they want to be friends when they want nothing to do with me. :roll:



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14 Apr 2009, 9:33 am

Yet you know that what they say isn't meant literally in this case, but continue to complain about it. You already know the truth of the situation, but refuse to accept it, at least how it seems to me.


M.


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ReeseLightnin
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14 Apr 2009, 10:21 am

Whinge whinge whinge. You tell them to speak honestly and think that's going to solve the problem when you yourself have said on many occasions that you won't change for anyone. Why should they change how they communicate for you?



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14 Apr 2009, 11:57 am

Maybe it's my lack of experience, but have any girls on here directly meant "I want nothing to do with you" when they say "let's just be friends"? The way I've always seen it, "let's just be friends" means they have no interest in dating you, but are ok with still talking to you & keeping on good terms. Of course, as long as the guy doesn't keep persisting to date you, then it pretty much would turn into "I want nothing to do with you".

I thought the purpose of white lies is that you do value the other person's feelings & opinions too much to hurt them, therefore making yourself have something to do with them. Most people wouldn't care about telling the cold truth to someone they truly wanted to go away.



KenM
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15 Apr 2009, 6:17 pm

I know what "lets be friends" means. I know society accepts it as OK. I don't accept it as OK when people lie to your face and get away with it. Thats what I'm trying to understand. Why do we as a society let people say these things to lets each other feel better? Are we all so soft that no one can handle the truth?

I'm never having children. But if I did have a daughter, when she got to be the age for dating, I would tell her to always be honest and tell the truth. Never say you want to stay friends with someone when you don't mean it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. They will be a better person for it.

Someone said I'm not willing to change. I am willing to change some things, but becoming a liar is not something I'm willing to do. At least I have honor and integrity. Unlike 90% of the women I have known.



JennaJ
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15 Apr 2009, 11:28 pm

KenM wrote:
I know what "lets be friends" means. I know society accepts it as OK. I don't accept it as OK when people lie to your face and get away with it. Thats what I'm trying to understand. Why do we as a society let people say these things to lets each other feel better? Are we all so soft that no one can handle the truth?

I'm never having children. But if I did have a daughter, when she got to be the age for dating, I would tell her to always be honest and tell the truth. Never say you want to stay friends with someone when you don't mean it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. They will be a better person for it.

Someone said I'm not willing to change. I am willing to change some things, but becoming a liar is not something I'm willing to do. At least I have honor and integrity. Unlike 90% of the women I have known.


I am an NT and I am all for what you said above. I agree. Why do people who are speaking to a person they know likes them say 'let's be friends"? Or why do they say it when they don't even like the person as a friend at all?

Well, they say it because people are inherently weak and most dislike confrontation. A lot.

It isn't that people can't HANDLE the truth, it is that people can't handle GIVING it. They have a hard time confronting people and saying what is on their minds. This is where many aspies have the edge over the average NT. Even tho the NT doesn't think it is an advantage, they view it as 'what did he/she just say!" *GASP* when they should instead examine WHY they feel the need to sugarcoat, dance around the topic, and say things they don't mean.

Althought I am an NT i also abhor this dance that people dance around truths. People are just inherently weak and that is why you get these statements. When i was single i was the girl who had no problem when a guy asked me for my number saying "no, i'd rather not".Why would i give him my number and never call him back? Or even worse give him a fake one? that is ridiculous and does that really help this man feel better? No, in the long run he feels even worse. LOL to be honest in my true fashion i was likely the one who sat him down in a cozy chair and tried to give him love advice if i felt comfortable with him and only declined the number because perhaps i was in a relationship but thought he was a very likeable guy, because i talk to much. But they always seemed interested in what i had to say LOL.

But when i declined to give out my number i was always polite and also told him i was flattered, because that was the God's honest truth. It always flattered me. I was never so full of myself that I would scoff at someone's interest.



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16 Apr 2009, 12:05 am

JennaJ wrote:
KenM wrote:
I know what "lets be friends" means. I know society accepts it as OK. I don't accept it as OK when people lie to your face and get away with it. Thats what I'm trying to understand. Why do we as a society let people say these things to lets each other feel better? Are we all so soft that no one can handle the truth?

I'm never having children. But if I did have a daughter, when she got to be the age for dating, I would tell her to always be honest and tell the truth. Never say you want to stay friends with someone when you don't mean it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. They will be a better person for it.

Someone said I'm not willing to change. I am willing to change some things, but becoming a liar is not something I'm willing to do. At least I have honor and integrity. Unlike 90% of the women I have known.


I am an NT and I am all for what you said above. I agree. Why do people who are speaking to a person they know likes them say 'let's be friends"? Or why do they say it when they don't even like the person as a friend at all?

Well, they say it because people are inherently weak and most dislike confrontation. A lot.

It isn't that people can't HANDLE the truth, it is that people can't handle GIVING it. They have a hard time confronting people and saying what is on their minds. This is where many aspies have the edge over the average NT. Even tho the NT doesn't think it is an advantage, they view it as 'what did he/she just say!" *GASP* when they should instead examine WHY they feel the need to sugarcoat, dance around the topic, and say things they don't mean.

Althought I am an NT i also abhor this dance that people dance around truths. People are just inherently weak and that is why you get these statements. When i was single i was the girl who had no problem when a guy asked me for my number saying "no, i'd rather not".Why would i give him my number and never call him back? Or even worse give him a fake one? that is ridiculous and does that really help this man feel better? No, in the long run he feels even worse. LOL to be honest in my true fashion i was likely the one who sat him down in a cozy chair and tried to give him love advice if i felt comfortable with him and only declined the number because perhaps i was in a relationship but thought he was a very likeable guy, because i talk to much. But they always seemed interested in what i had to say LOL.

But when i declined to give out my number i was always polite and also told him i was flattered, because that was the God's honest truth. It always flattered me. I was never so full of myself that I would scoff at someone's interest.


Are there women like you, except single, in their 20s, and living in the greater NYC area?



KenM
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16 Apr 2009, 4:42 am

Thanks, JennaJ. Glad to see there are other people that think all those games, white lies are wrong.



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16 Apr 2009, 1:00 pm

I haven't, and I don't think anyone else here has said that the lies are OK - just that you already know what it means and continue to rail against it only serves to hurt yourself. Perfect world aside, this is where we are, Ken... one can either accept or fight, but the choice remains yours.


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KenM
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17 Apr 2009, 5:14 am

Sorry. I'm not going to accept that its ok for people to lie to me and mislead me. Plus unlike the majority of people out there, its seems I can take the truth. I'm done here.