I need to know why society think its ok to lie?

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I probably should have said "a minority" a la what DW is saying. I know that most women are fairly upstanding individuals from my experience. However, that majority of women never had any interest in me. The only women that had held any interest in me weren't interested in me as a person, they were interested in what my brain was capable of... but again, that was a small minority... the rest of the women, while not interested in me romantically, at least held respect for me as a human being...

That's the point I'm trying to get at here... women are never romantically interested in me as a person... those that are interested are after something and are using sexual or romantic overtures to try and get it, since after all, most men will easily fall to a woman that is overly aggressive in her approach. So that's why I subconsciously burned out my own ability to be attracted to physical qualities alone, so that this minority of women that are duplicitous and manipulative can't use me again...

Ken, grow up man. They are being honest, or at least most are. Being friends means no hard feelings, we won't hate each other and they will keep their end of the bargain. If you can't accept no, then get over it. Stop trying. I may be alone forever, but I'll do what I love.

Well said DustinWX.

IMO, The problem here is this: If you really like a girl and you tell her so, and she turns you down, what do you expect her to think if you just distance yourself from her and can't simply remain friends with her? "Oh that guy just liked me because he's desperate and wanted to sleep with me".

I've had to learn the hard way that if you want to get a girlfriend, you have to learn just to be friends with women in general first. If you can't just talk to a girl as friends, how do you suppose that a relationship is going to work where you are friends but you are much more involved? Being a friend and being able to talk to them as people is really important, whether you are in a relationship with them or not.

The other misconception that people here have, I think, is that somehow being in a relationship makes your life more complete and that you will both coexist in perfect harmony and happily ever after. Being with a woman doesn't automatically mean that she is sex on tap. There will be times when she will not want to sleep with you, that she will be angry with you, that she will want space from you and there will be many MANY things that she will discover about you that she dislikes. There will be compromises, arguments, fights and disagreements and the rejection that stems from these things can be every bit as painful - even more so - than the sting felt when a girl turns you down.

But if you reject anyone who is interested, because you assume that their intentions are malicious, then how can you meet anyone?


M.

Ironcally, speaking to women as friends is what I can do... its speaking romantically I can't do... and I'm perfectly fine with being friends with a woman I'm otherwise interested in, so long as when she says "let's be friends", she means that... if she wants me to get away from her, she should just say she'd rather not really be involved with me at all...

If a woman was really interested in me, she would be interested in me more often than just when she has a math problem she needs solved...

i see it all the time-(and I was a fool once too, but then again, I was a silly teen once too)
you can't fight the social ways
you either get on the "social boat" or be left hugging the scree

the choice is yours

Can you accept that, to some women, it might seem like a practical avenue as it is one of your strengths? Pulling from the social interaction playbook, would it not make sense to approach someone you were interested in through one of their strengths? I understand you have been hurt, but the past is past - holding everyone from now to eternity accountable for their transgressions isn't going to make anything better.


M.

I'm not just talking about a woman theoretically interested in me asking for help on some problem. I'm talking about the women that only acknowledge my existence is in such situations while completely ignoring me other times... The worst part is that such faked interest isn't even necessary. I'm one of those nerds that has to stop and attempt a math problem if it's put in front of me... That said, since I already know that women in general aren't interested in me as a person, then it's doubtful that any relationship, should one be pursued, would be a successful one...

I have found most are not being honest. When they say to me "I just want to be friends" They don't mean they want to be friends. They mean they want nothing to do with me and just said the friends line to let me down easy. That is being misleading. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Saying they want to be friends usally means they want to get to know you more, hang out, ect.. But when you want nothing more to do with someone, why say that, making them think you still want them to be around you? How is that honest? Tell me.
If they said to me "I'm sorry, Ken, but I don't think we would be a good fit, good luck to you." I would not be as upset. They are honest with me. I don't start to stalk them or anything like that. I have had a few women say that to me and I have more respect for them then the ones that think its OK to lie.
I can accept no. But its how they say it. Not honest at all.

First of all your attitude stinks when you go calling women "demons from hell". That just doesn't win you any brownie points in the "I'm a great potential partner for you" category in most women's minds. If they get that impression and feel uncomfortable with you, being just friends is likely where you'll get stuck or not bothered with at all. I know some men that have similiar attitudes and yet they can't figure out why they can't get a woman?... maybe look at your own attitude first, some men lie to women in similiar ways you claim women lie to men. Noone's better than the other. You really need to examine your own attitudes and expectations and realize some things are just too irrealistic to expect others to be able to do for you or be for you. You seriously need to bother more with learning to develop friendships with women and such without irrealistic expectations than worrying whether a woman will date you because I know it's not just me as a woman but others too that will pick up your attitude towards women before you even open your mouth and will decide that they aren't comfortable and will try to simply be kind and tell you they can only be friends with you. It's much better than being told to screw off and leave them alone I'd think? After all, if you really want the truth... that's sadly what you might get for an answer. I really hope you learn to try to look at things around you more differently than putting high expectations on others when you don't seem willing to realize you likely are alienating others by them.

I've been reading this for days now and tempted to comment several times but it would be repeating things I've already said to you before.

It seems that your only issue is the "lets be friends" part and if they don't want to hang out with you, then you consider it a lie without considering what the definition of friend is. I think that is where the problem lies. What is your definition of friendship? Do you believe that there are levels of friendships? I do and most women do.

If I told you that I want to be friends but I don't want to date, it means just that. It means I don't want to date you but I consider you a friend. That does not mean I want to hang out with you. It means that if I see you around I'll say hi and we can talk. We might exchange email. I have a lot of friends that are really acquaintances. I like them and I like to talk to them once in awhile but I don't want to see them every day or hang out. It's the same as someone saying "lets do lunch". I know that lunch is probably never going to happen but its a nice gesture.

It's my best friends and close friends that I go out with. Someone has to earn my trust and I need to be comfortable around them and enjoy their company in order to progress to a stronger friendship. I don't think your current attitude is projecting a warm and fuzzy feeling, in fact you are projecting a "I hate women" feeling and that's not going to help you.

Other than that, it is what it is. You can't change it so you either have to modify your expectations and move on or dwell in your misery and make yourself unhappy the rest of your life. I hope you chose to be happy.

Last edited by Butterflair on 01 Apr 2009, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am Satan, don't ever mess with my demons.

Actually, the truth, as cold and hard as it may be, is much better. It's like when a parent tells a kid the dog ran away (as opposed that it died). It saves hurt feelings. But, why do it? The real reason is that the parent knows the child is not at their maturity level & lacks the capacity to handle the truth like they can.

"Let's just be friends" is the same thing. The girl does not see the guy as an equal & treats him like a simpler being. This is hugely condecending & it's clear why some guys would be mad at this.

However, I do agree with your main point that holding onto resentment & directing it at all women won't help you any.

All the women that have said to me that they just want to be friends have later said they did not really mean it. That they were trying to let me down easy and looked at me like I had 3 heads when I tryed to continue the relationship on a friendship level when they told me they wanted to stay friends. Then everyone here wonders why I don't belive it when someone says that to me.

I said in a few posts back that I have had a few women tell me "Sorry, but I don't think we are a good fid. Good luck." I'm totally fine with that. I have no resentment to those women.

Okay, you know what "Lets just be friends" mean so no need to get upset about it anymore. Every time someone says it to you, just assume they mean they don't want to have anything to do with you anymore. Problem solved.

It doesn't make any sense to keep carrying on about this when you already know what they mean because you had learned the meaning of it. I don't get upset when people use idioms because I know what they mean. I wouldn't get upset if my bf said "He was burning bridges with you." I know what it means so I know he doesn't mean my ex was literally burning bridges and I was too. It would mean he was making fun of me about something I do he does himself.

This kind of attitude really keeps women away. It's like you don't want them to change their minds later on or else it becomes a lie to you so the women are going to go "Ah screw it, I don't want to be with him because of his attitude." That is the message you are already sending to the women here, including me but that doesn't matter because I am already taken.

I told one guy in my life I wasn't looking for any relationships and then one day I meet a guy and I also wasn't expecting I would fall into a relationship with him. I also told him I wasn't looking for any relationships but he kept coming and seeing me and he understood my needs and didn't expect things out of me normal women would give so I ended up changing my mind and decided to try a relationship with him. You see, I did not lie to the other guy, I told him things changed so I changed my mind when I met this other guy. I was just lucky my bf kept his hopes up after I told him I wasn't looking for any relationships.

You see, women aren't psychics. They don't know their futures so things happen that would make them change their minds. What they have said to you doesn't mean they have lied to you. Things change, people change their minds.

Heck I told one of my online friends when he ever moves out to Portland, we would room mate together and play fetish games together. But then my bf walked into my life so that all changed what my friend and I had talked about. I did not know I was going to be meeting a guy and falling in love with him.