An article on "bullycide"

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Yes and yes, unless there is proof otherwise I am not really so convinced people are better off with me existing. But there are safer things I can do than try to kill myself so I try to stick to those.

I know you said you wouldn't do it. You asked if it's more logical to kill the bully instead of yourself?

that's kinda contradictory. but, then again, emotions often are. so, fair enough.

Wait does that contradict? if there are actual reasons for me to feel like people are better off without me...then naturally that is how I would feel, unless there is something that indicates they are better off with me then I won't feel there is.

To me it seems to be more logical. But you wrote things about spending your life in prison and throwing your life away, and your life is much more definite thrown away if you commit suicide. When I said I wouldn't do it myself I meant that I consider other options like changing yourself or defending yourself as much mure logical. I did only mention murder to express the extreme irrationality of committing suicide because of bullyism. I wanted to say "in such a situation even murder makes more sense than suicide".
Suicide can be a good thing. But not because of something that trivial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

I never felt able to do anything about my being bullied and relate to this article.

That's an awful handicap. I'm very sorry for you.
Isn't a person with such a character somehow bound to totally fail in life?

you said part of being suicidal for you is that you feel that people would be better off without you.

you also said that if it were ingrained into you that people were not better off without you, it wouldn't help.

that is a contradiction.

I have no intention of giving you a hard time for it though, because it is an emotional response, and emotions are often contradictory.

also, I believe there are likely many things that indicate that people are better off with you around. but, I believe that your depression prevents you from seeing them. as I've mentioned before, depression alters your thought patterns. one cannot say they have clinical depression, and also say that their thoughts (especially regarding their own self-worth) are as rational as they could be.

things learned can be unlearned

That is a ridiculous and presumptive generalization. Would suicide be "stupid" in a case where someone is being physically tortured? What about someone forced to live the rest of their life in severe and debilitating pain? Also, who says depression is "all in someone's head"? I know from first hand experience that a severe chemical imbalance in the brain can amount to nothing less than mental torture. It's not necessarily irrational for someone to want to escape that.

To tell the truth, I think this kind of moralizing is precisely what causes people to commit suicide rather than demand the help and support they desperately need to continue on surviving in life. If someone is in chronic pain at least others know what they're going through. The chronically depressed person may feel totally isolated and misunderstood. When people moralize against a depressed person and call them stupid for feeling suicidal, they are pushing them into a dangerous state of isolation.


I'm afraid you're the one who's not being objective. I'm the realist here. Everyone has a breaking point. Most people will jump to their death out of a burning building if they feel they're going to suffocate from smoke inhalation. You can't claim that your opinion isn't being influenced by your emotions given everything you've told me. You can say it but I'll call it utter BS.

The idea that dealing with bullying teaches one how to cope as an adult is utter BS. In school the best way to deal with bullies is to snap and kick the crap out of them every once in a while. If you spend your childhood doing this you're probably going to have anger issues when you grow up. Then you can't kick the crap out of your boss for abusing you without being thrown in jail or possibly sued. Bullying teaches nothing.

Are we talking about cases of people being tortured? Are we talking about debilitating terminal illnesses? Are we talking about people stuck in burning buildings? No, we are talking about kids getting bullied at school. Talk about strawman arguments.

Of course everyone has a breaking point. What, exactly, is wrong with teaching them skills so that it takes longer to reach it, which is what I'm advocating here.

As for moralizing, certain acts are right and certain acts are wrong, whether you or anyone else likes it or not.

And a chronically depressed person may feel isolated and misunderstood? So your solution is to tell them "you're right, you are alone and no one else could ever understand.". Seems to me that would only reinforce those negative feelings. Don't you think it might maybe be more helpful if they knew that people don't want them to die and would be hurt by it, which is what I'm advocating here.

Also, the comment about objectivity was directed toward someone else because every single post that person made was about their own experiences, as though no one who commits suicide could possibly feel differently than she did. Come to think of it, you're doing the exact same thing.

I never said my opinion wasn't influenced by my emotions, but at least I'm aware that others have a variety of reasons for feeling the way they do. Whereas you seem to be assuming that, because only one out of a myriad of reasons makes sense to you, every single suicidal person must be doing it for that reason.

And please point out to me where I said feeling suicidal was stupid. One cannot always control the way one feels. Acting on those feelings however, is a different matter.

Speaking of things I never said, please also point out to me where I said depression was all in someone's head. I did say it affects a person's thought processes because, well, it does. If a person's thought process is not affected, then they do not have depression.

But you have to be extremely vulnerable to suffer from such an effect to such a degree. A born victim.

There are two different types of bullying. One is based mostly on verbal harassment. The best way to cope with that is to learn not to internalize every negative thing someone says about you, which is a very valuable skill for an adult to have.

Then there is the kind based on physical violence. The best way to cope with that is to learn to physically defend yourself. No one blames an adult who kicks the crap out of someone in self-defense.

Of course, now there are a ton of people who are thinking that because I think coping skills are a good thing, I must think bullying is ok.

Not the case. I believe it can happen to anyone under the right (or rather, very wrong) circumstances.

I don't think so. Some people are much more likely to be a victim than others.
I mean, everybody can be a victim as long as there are enough people who are physically or mentally stronger than him/her.
But the (mentally and physically) weakest ones are the ones who are the most likely to be bullied.
The only exception is extreme uglyness. But even "cripples" can have a high social state if they are mentally or physically strong enough.
The popularity of a victim for bullies depends on how easy it is to hurt it and how unlikely it is to defend itself.