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Hmmmn
Deinonychus
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07 Sep 2009, 5:56 am

Here is something most should find very useful. You may not think so until you read it though, wasn't until skimming through this I realised how many negative non-verbals I was giving off all the time and what they were communicating to other people. Scroll down the page to find the list.

http://www.center-for-nonverbal-studies.org/6101.html

Not only can knowing about non-verbals stop you giving off unintentional signals (negative or positive) but you will also be able to recognize other people's body language. You may still be surprised at the info within, just knowing what types of signals are automatic (limbic response) and which are controlled is very useful.

Once I got the idea how powerful non-verbals are from this I had to start reading some textbooks as the dictionary doesn't actually tie things together in any way but these two books do.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Every-Body ... 092&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-About-Lyi ... 125&sr=1-1

from these pages you can find many more books about facial expressions, people's motivations etc (the reviews are the best thing about amazon!) but the dictionary is a great place to start.

Mindblindness is just a metaphor fact is we can see and here everything within range of our senses, some of us can probably have better senses than the average NT just we can never interpret what is going on. Obviously we'll never be able to compensate fully but with the right information you can interpret most situations.



Aimless
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07 Sep 2009, 6:07 am

Thanks-that looks interesting



DarrylZero
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07 Sep 2009, 2:45 pm

There are a lot of books available on body language. I've read several of them. Here are a few books I feel comfortable recommending, for anyone who's interested.

The Definitive Book of Body Language, by Barbara and Allen Pease

This book is pretty comprehensive. It includes drawings as well as photographs of famous people displaying different nonverbal cues. I also like the way it incorporates cultural differences in what gestures mean.

Unmasking the Face, Paul Ekman and Wallace V. Friesen

I use this book more as a reference because the pictures of how different emotions are expressed by the face and the accompanying descriptions are excellent, imo.

Reading People, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius

One of the first I read. She worked as a jury consultant. There's a good section on speed-reading people.



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07 Sep 2009, 2:59 pm

Thank you! That web site is awesome. I'm pretty sure I'll end up spending the next hour or two reading it. If WrongPlanet had the ability to give out rep points, I'd so do that.



Hmmmn
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16 Sep 2009, 4:57 pm

Thanks, yeah I've still not finished it. The first thing I saw that got me hooked was the one about rubbing the back of your neck, this is extreme negative body language to NTs but I do it all the time.

Thanks for those DarrlyZero I'll check those out, if anyone has more suggestions that'd be great.



Hmmmn
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17 Sep 2009, 8:18 am

Just remembered another good example:

I once asked my girlfriend why strangers seemed to take an instant dislike to me from a distance, it seemed I could feel the contempt coming from people as they loooked from across the room. I was expecting her to say 'it's all in your head' but she told me it was because I looked arrogant. She couldn't tell me how but she knew that was the reason.

Reading the dictionary above I found out why, I always (used to) sit with my head slightly tilted back in what I thought was a happy confident position, turns out having the head tilted back is a sign of arrogance and contempt, literally looking down your nose at others. People don't like it, I try to avoid doing it these days and I no longer attract so much contempt from strangers.



DarrylZero
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17 Sep 2009, 10:11 am

Hmmmn wrote:
Thanks, yeah I've still not finished it. The first thing I saw that got me hooked was the one about rubbing the back of your neck, this is extreme negative body language to NTs but I do it all the time.


It depends on the context. The thing with body language is that it really is a language in that the gestures have meaning only in terms of the context of the situation, environment, the people involved, other gestures, etc. By itself rubbing the back of the neck could mean any number of things. The person could have an itch. However, it's commonly interpreted as a stress indicator. When someone is under stress, they may rub the back of their neck. Combine that with another gesture, such as looking away (often an indicator of shame or guilt) and this gesture cluster suggests deception. Again, the key is understanding the context. There are a couple of really interesting videos on YouTube that demonstrate this.

First video:

This is a clip of Kate Winslet being interviewed on David Letterman's show. It's not necessary to watch the whole thing, but it sets up the context of their discussion. She's friendly, animated, and looks Letterman in the eyes most of the time.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zX1_g2znNk[/youtube]

Second video:

This is the second part of the interview. This is where it gets interesting. At :28 Letterman asks her about knowing Leonardo DiCaprio. Her verbal response is that they've known each other a long time, but her nonverbal response is rubbing the back of her neck and looking away from Letterman. Interesting. What could that mean? :wink:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGe-xNyevg[/youtube]

Thus endeth the lesson. :)



Hmmmn
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17 Sep 2009, 10:23 am

Yeah that would make me think twice for sure, perhaps rehprase the question and ask it again lol Nice lesson Darryl.

The fact is I'm a constant rolling example of those little stress indicators 8O I guess people who know me are used to it but for strangers it would be a unsettling. Just in the short time I've been trying not to do it around people though I have noticed a difference in their reaction.



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18 Sep 2009, 1:59 am

Here's a realization I've come to recently. NTs are supposed to be able to read nonverbal cues better than Aspies. I don't think this is entirely correct. They may be able to pick up on the nonverbal cues, but often times their interpretation is less than accurate. I think it's because they see one gesture without knowing the context and make an assumption based on that. According to their interpretation, you present stress indicators. As you said, people who know you (i.e., people who know the context of your gestures) accept them. Even looking at the plethora of body language books on the market should be an indicator of this. I've yet to come across one specifically aimed at people on the spectrum. They're all for NTs to help them be more accurate in their assessments.

I better stop before I start rambling incessantly. Any guess what one of my special interests is? :wink:



Hmmmn
Deinonychus
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18 Sep 2009, 6:30 am

Ramble away buddy I'm quite interested myself. I'm really bad explaining it but you're really good so feel free to carry on

Quote:
I think it's because they see one gesture without knowing the context and make an assumption based on that.


Yup.



DarrylZero
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19 Sep 2009, 1:12 am

I would say the best thing to do is just go ahead and check out those books I mentioned, or really any such book, especially if it has lots of pictures (photos are better than drawings, imo). Libraries would likely have them. I think there may even be some instructional videos around, but I haven't really looked for them; they could be very helpful. Once you learn them, try observing them in the people around you. I like to go to public places, like malls, and do some people watching with the intent of trying to read their nonverbal cues. Of course, the biggest problem with this is that you can't just go walk up to them and verify your interpretations. It does help with being able to pick up on the different cues, though. You might also want to focus on a specific gesture/gesture cluster at first, and then add more as you get comfortable. There are a lot of things to look for and it will take time and practice. I'm still learning.

I will also say that it is a lot easier to do as an observer than as a participant. I can usually pick up on nonverbal cues when I'm just observing those around me, or watching videos (such as the example I posted above). However, if I'm actually engaged in a conversation with someone, it becomes much more difficult as I try to pay attention to what's being said, how's it being said, what I'm going to say, AND watch for nonverbal cues. 8O

Another interesting and related topic is cold reading. Do a search for the term. It's a technique used by mentalists to "read" their clients and appear to be psychic. That could provide some useful information, too.

I'm glad you find my ramblings useful. I think you may be the only one, though.



auntyjack
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19 Sep 2009, 6:58 am

DarrylZero wrote:
Here's a realization I've come to recently. NTs are supposed to be able to read nonverbal cues better than Aspies. I don't think this is entirely correct. :


they dont reas our nonverbal signals very well. The other aspect is that many people may read the signals well, but do not respond appropriately. That might be the case for many couples who diviorce.



RZA
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24 Sep 2009, 2:01 am

Thanks for posting these links, Hmmmn. Between the website and the Joe Navarro book it looks like I'll be occupied for quite some time.