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DeanAdamFry
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30 Sep 2011, 9:46 am

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
Wikipedia =/= evidence.

EDIT: The wikipedia article is talking about pre-primary school children. Why on earth do you think that's relevant here?

Children with asperger's display fewer socialising deficits. That's all there is.


Don't you read a post? I said it CAN explain it, I wasn't exactly sure if Wikipedia is legit but what they said on there is more or less what my doctors said to me, jeez don't try to give me the lip about it.



I read your post and I disagree with it. Stop talking in capitals.


Excuse me, I can talk like THIS or leik dis any time I want, how dare you try to tell me what to do? and that is fine that you disagree with my post but that was how they found differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome, they had different behaviours when it came to social encounters, the simplest form my doctor told me was "People with Autism are normally in their own world and unaware of the outside world while people with your disability are stuck inbetween your own world and reality". If you disagree so much then could you please tell me what are the main differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome instead of arguing with me because as far as my knowledge, that is the main difference.


Calm down.

"The main difference between Autism and Asperger Syndrome is that Autistic people either DON'T want to socialise or they are unaware of it to begin with (low functioning) while people with Asperger Syndrome WANT to socialise "

You said that people with autism don't want to socialise. This is wrong.

The difference is people with Asperger's are more likely to to display attention seeking behaviour and other forms of socialisation. And keep in mind that they are referring to very young children; none of it applies to adults. The wikipedia article doesn't support your claim either.

Proxybear was right when he said "And where have you read that? Because I can't find anything about actually wanting to socialize or not in the diagnose. "

PS: It reads as though you're patronizing the other person when you write stuff like *facepalm* and capitalise random words for emphasis.


"Another major characteristic that identifies Autism Aspergers from the typical Autism is the socialization deficit. In most cases, children with AS express a desire to fit in socially. Typical Autism victims suggest complete exclusion and seclusion. In fact, AS individuals tend to become frustrated because they aren't able to interact appropriately. " from this website: http://www.disabledinfo.co.uk/dis/323-u ... ers-an.asp

There you go, another website claiming the same thing.

Like I have said in my previous post, MAJORITY of them do but some will fall through the cracks and actually come out wanting to socialise despite being actually autistic, its stupid to assume all of them are and I thought anyone would have enough common sense to know that there are some who do, I do not need to explain this kind of stuff to you when you already know some people who have autism do want to socialise but the MAJORITY DON'T. If both the majority of Autism and Asperger people wanted to socialise then what's the point of having Asperger being there in the first place if Autism already does that? Seems kind of stupid don't you think?



irene
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30 Sep 2011, 10:32 am

To be a friend or have a friend is it necessary to socialize? While reading some of these posts I thought the my ideal situation could be just communicating with people who share my interests. Just exchanging info, experiences on those topics. If the situation comes up that one of us has experienced something that they feel they would like to share with another human, or maybe it's the type of thing that could be more enjoyable with another human then socialize.

Now I might become somewhat of a hypocrite by saying I wouldn't mind having the ability to get along with a massive amount of people. The difference, as far as I am concerned, between that and being alone is that it would just allow me the option to socialize or not socialize. I would not have to be with people unless I wanted to. Options are a wonderful thing to have. I am 62 years of age and still do not know how to speak to people. I don't have a clue how to interact with a fellow human being. Knowing me once I realize that I am capable of "playing well with others" and being alone I would feel one step closer to not feeling as though I am an alien from who knows where just constantly wandering around and wondering if there's really truly others out there like myself. Once again I feel like I should be segregated from the general public because I put my foot in my mouth and hurt someone's feelings with what I have said. Actually it's more than one person.



The_Perfect_Storm
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30 Sep 2011, 10:34 am

DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
Wikipedia =/= evidence.

EDIT: The wikipedia article is talking about pre-primary school children. Why on earth do you think that's relevant here?

Children with asperger's display fewer socialising deficits. That's all there is.


Don't you read a post? I said it CAN explain it, I wasn't exactly sure if Wikipedia is legit but what they said on there is more or less what my doctors said to me, jeez don't try to give me the lip about it.



I read your post and I disagree with it. Stop talking in capitals.


Excuse me, I can talk like THIS or leik dis any time I want, how dare you try to tell me what to do? and that is fine that you disagree with my post but that was how they found differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome, they had different behaviours when it came to social encounters, the simplest form my doctor told me was "People with Autism are normally in their own world and unaware of the outside world while people with your disability are stuck inbetween your own world and reality". If you disagree so much then could you please tell me what are the main differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome instead of arguing with me because as far as my knowledge, that is the main difference.


Calm down.

"The main difference between Autism and Asperger Syndrome is that Autistic people either DON'T want to socialise or they are unaware of it to begin with (low functioning) while people with Asperger Syndrome WANT to socialise "

You said that people with autism don't want to socialise. This is wrong.

The difference is people with Asperger's are more likely to to display attention seeking behaviour and other forms of socialisation. And keep in mind that they are referring to very young children; none of it applies to adults. The wikipedia article doesn't support your claim either.

Proxybear was right when he said "And where have you read that? Because I can't find anything about actually wanting to socialize or not in the diagnose. "

PS: It reads as though you're patronizing the other person when you write stuff like *facepalm* and capitalise random words for emphasis.


"Another major characteristic that identifies Autism Aspergers from the typical Autism is the socialization deficit. In most cases, children with AS express a desire to fit in socially. Typical Autism victims suggest complete exclusion and seclusion. In fact, AS individuals tend to become frustrated because they aren't able to interact appropriately. " from this website: http://www.disabledinfo.co.uk/dis/323-u ... ers-an.asp

There you go, another website claiming the same thing.

Like I have said in my previous post, MAJORITY of them do but some will fall through the cracks and actually come out wanting to socialise despite being actually autistic, its stupid to assume all of them are and I thought anyone would have enough common sense to know that there are some who do, I do not need to explain this kind of stuff to you when you already know some people who have autism do want to socialise but the MAJORITY DON'T. If both the majority of Autism and Asperger people wanted to socialise then what's the point of having Asperger being there in the first place if Autism already does that? Seems kind of stupid don't you think?


I'm not saying that while most want to socialise some of them do want to socialise. I'm saying you have no idea whether they do or don't and you didn't have any evidence at the time when you wrote it. Even now you've apparently found some website. Taking the quote for what it is it still doesn't provide evidence for your point. It says children with AS "express" a desire to fit in socially. It's what I've been saying this whole time. You've been talking about whether people with autism even want to. And you decided that they don't want to.

I would say that children with Asperger's don't necessarily want to fit in socially. They want to be social on their own terms. What you don't seem to realise about the diagnostic criteria is that people with Asperger's display attention seeking behaviour. People with autism do not. This is not a representation of their desires (not necessarily). This is simply a representation of what they DO. You're assuming that people with autism and people with asperger's have the same train of thought. That if people with autism wanted to socialise they would go about it in the same manner as a person with Asperger's. This is not the case.


If you had actually made an effort to evaluate the website you picked out as your evidence you would have noticed that the author is not a qualified psychologist, psychiatrist or anything else. He hasn't referenced any of his information either. The website is useless.



Last edited by The_Perfect_Storm on 30 Sep 2011, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DeanAdamFry
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30 Sep 2011, 11:15 am

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
Wikipedia =/= evidence.

EDIT: The wikipedia article is talking about pre-primary school children. Why on earth do you think that's relevant here?

Children with asperger's display fewer socialising deficits. That's all there is.


Don't you read a post? I said it CAN explain it, I wasn't exactly sure if Wikipedia is legit but what they said on there is more or less what my doctors said to me, jeez don't try to give me the lip about it.



I read your post and I disagree with it. Stop talking in capitals.


Excuse me, I can talk like THIS or leik dis any time I want, how dare you try to tell me what to do? and that is fine that you disagree with my post but that was how they found differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome, they had different behaviours when it came to social encounters, the simplest form my doctor told me was "People with Autism are normally in their own world and unaware of the outside world while people with your disability are stuck inbetween your own world and reality". If you disagree so much then could you please tell me what are the main differences between Autism and Asperger Syndrome instead of arguing with me because as far as my knowledge, that is the main difference.


Calm down.

"The main difference between Autism and Asperger Syndrome is that Autistic people either DON'T want to socialise or they are unaware of it to begin with (low functioning) while people with Asperger Syndrome WANT to socialise "

You said that people with autism don't want to socialise. This is wrong.

The difference is people with Asperger's are more likely to to display attention seeking behaviour and other forms of socialisation. And keep in mind that they are referring to very young children; none of it applies to adults. The wikipedia article doesn't support your claim either.

Proxybear was right when he said "And where have you read that? Because I can't find anything about actually wanting to socialize or not in the diagnose. "

PS: It reads as though you're patronizing the other person when you write stuff like *facepalm* and capitalise random words for emphasis.


"Another major characteristic that identifies Autism Aspergers from the typical Autism is the socialization deficit. In most cases, children with AS express a desire to fit in socially. Typical Autism victims suggest complete exclusion and seclusion. In fact, AS individuals tend to become frustrated because they aren't able to interact appropriately. " from this website: http://www.disabledinfo.co.uk/dis/323-u ... ers-an.asp

There you go, another website claiming the same thing.

Like I have said in my previous post, MAJORITY of them do but some will fall through the cracks and actually come out wanting to socialise despite being actually autistic, its stupid to assume all of them are and I thought anyone would have enough common sense to know that there are some who do, I do not need to explain this kind of stuff to you when you already know some people who have autism do want to socialise but the MAJORITY DON'T. If both the majority of Autism and Asperger people wanted to socialise then what's the point of having Asperger being there in the first place if Autism already does that? Seems kind of stupid don't you think?


I'm not saying that while most want to socialise some of them do want to socialise. I'm saying you have no idea whether they do or don't and you didn't have any evidence at the time when you wrote it. Even now you've apparently found some website. Taking the quote for what it is it still doesn't provide evidence for your point. It says children with AS "express" a desire to fit in socially. It's what I've been saying this whole time. You've been talking about whether people with autism even want to. And you decided that they don't want to.

I would say that children with Asperger's don't necessarily want to fit in socially. They want to be social on their own terms. What you don't seem to realise about the diagnostic criteria is that people with Asperger's display attention seeking behaviour. People with autism do not. This is not a representation of their desires (not necessarily). This is simply a representation of what they DO. You're assuming that people with autism and people with asperger's have the same train of thought. That if people with autism wanted to socialise they would go about it in the same as a person with Asperger's. This is not the case.


If you had actually made an effort to evaluate the website you picked out as your evidence you would have noticed that the author is not a qualified psychologist, psychiatrist or anything else. He hasn't referenced any of his information either. The website is useless.


Alright then, you tell me the main differences between the both in simple forms and I will listen. You can also tell me how they found out the differences between the both disabilities as well while your at it please.



irene
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30 Sep 2011, 11:39 am

I was curious about this article and decided to check it. All that advertising all over the page left me feeling kind of leery about this guy. Especially since there was no bio.

Googled his bio and one page came up with all these articles he has written. http://www.articlesphere.com/profile/jon-arnold/9053 And here is the list.

[b][/u]Browse Expert Author Jon Arnold's Articles by Category:
Acid Reflux GERD (2) Addictions (2)
Anti Aging (1) Attention Deficit Disorder (3)
Autism (8) Auto Insurance (2)
Bankruptcy (9) Breast Cancer (2)
Broadband Internet (1) Clothing Accessories (1)
Communications (1) Credit Cards (5)
Credit Counseling (1) Credit Repair (2)
Credit Reports (4) Credit Score (8)
Diabetes (1) Divorce (4)
Dogs (1) Electronics Appliances (1)
Employment Careers (1) Eye Care (2)
Health Fitness (1) Identity Theft (10)
Jewelry Diamonds (3) Leasing (1)
Legal (1) Loans (3)
Mobile Cell Phone (1) Multiple Sclerosis (1)
Natural Home Remedies (5) Nutrition Supplements (2)
Personal Finance (1) Pet Supplies (1)
Quit Smoking (1) Reference And Education (1)
Relationships (3) Retirement Planning (1)
Satellite TV (1) Schools Colleges Universities (3)
Tanning (1) Travel Destinations (3)
Vacation Rentals (2) Vacations (4)
VoIP (3) [b][u]


Those two shiny yellow faces are supposed to be the number eight (8).


After reading that I wouldn't trust anything (so desperately wanted cap the word ANYTHING but didn't) this man had to say.



The_Perfect_Storm
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30 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm

DeanAdamFry wrote:
Alright then, you tell me the main differences between the both in simple forms and I will listen. You can also tell me how they found out the differences between the both disabilities as well while your at it please.


I downloaded the DSM-IV. It says "Asperger's Disorder can be distinguished from Autistic Disorder by the lack of delay in language development." The diagnostic criteria are also very similar. Almost word for word, though Autism has further language/communication difficulties.

Anyway what I was getting at earlier was that the diagnostic criteria looks at behaviour. It doesn't account for what the person may be thinking or feeling. The main difference between Asperger's and Autism in my mind is that people with Asperger's demonstrate fewer social deficits. That is all. It doesn't mean that people with autism don't want to socialise with other people as you suggested.


On topic I think many of us will have a higher tolerance or preference for solitude compared to normal people. Then again I'm not quite sure... if socialising had something to do with our special interests I'm betting a lot of us could go on for huge periods of time. It's been a while since I had one though so I can't quite remember what it was like. Maybe it has more to do with the subjective quality of social interaction than social interaction in general.



Last edited by The_Perfect_Storm on 30 Sep 2011, 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DragonKazooie89
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30 Sep 2011, 12:12 pm

I usually like being by myself, so yes, I am a loner, unless I know someone or people who loves video games and computers as much as I do then I like to hang out with people.



DeanAdamFry
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30 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
Alright then, you tell me the main differences between the both in simple forms and I will listen. You can also tell me how they found out the differences between the both disabilities as well while your at it please.


I downloaded the DSM-IV. It says "Asperger's Disorder can be distinguished from Autistic Disorder by the lack of delay in language development." The diagnostic criteria are also very similar. Almost word for word, though Autism has further language/communication difficulties.

Anyway what I was getting at earlier was that the diagnostic criteria looks at behaviour. It doesn't account for what the person may be thinking or feeling. The main difference between Asperger's and Autism in my mind is that people with Asperger's demonstrate fewer social deficits. That is all. It doesn't mean that people with autism don't want to socialise with other people as you suggested.


I said "People with autism either don't want to or are simply unaware" What I mean by unaware is they are in their own world, not aware of the reality around them and what I mean by they don't want to is that they prefer to be by themselves then be with other people but that's only the majority, some do want to socialise as you said but its definitely not the majority who want to socialise.

I'm not very good at explaining my side of the arguments and very blunt with what I say, I know the language side is another main difference as well but the OP was talking about social and was wondering what the differences are between the two disabilities, I simply gave my point of view on what my doctors told me and I must of said it very bluntly for you to react this way.



The_Perfect_Storm
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30 Sep 2011, 1:07 pm

DeanAdamFry wrote:
I said "People with autism either don't want to or are simply unaware" What I mean by unaware is they are in their own world, not aware of the reality around them and what I mean by they don't want to is that they prefer to be by themselves then be with other people but that's only the majority, some do want to socialise as you said but its definitely not the majority who want to socialise.

I'm not very good at explaining my side of the arguments and very blunt with what I say, I know the language side is another main difference as well but the OP was talking about social and was wondering what the differences are between the two disabilities, I simply gave my point of view on what my doctors told me and I must of said it very bluntly for you to react this way.


I think I get what you're saying. It's just there's no evidence for it. It's all speculation. Without evidence even your doctors are merely speculating. My problem was that proxybear asked you to provide some evidence for your claim and when you posted that wikipedia article you seemed to miss the point. It wasn't about actual behaviour but what the person was experiencing. His question was "how do you know they don't want to socialise". The wikipedia article did not directly address this question. When he said so you acted like he was stupid or something... I think it was just a misunderstanding. I think we can at least agree that they have no idea how to socialise in the normal way.

Now, are your doctors a credible source? Well, you'd think a psychologist or whatever would be in the best position to know about this sort of thing. The question now is how did they come to that conclusion? Is it a guess? I mean how do you know whether a person wants to socialise or not when they aren't actually doing anything about it? The other alternative is that the doctors were simply dumbing it down for you. Giving you the lay explanation; something both you and your parents would understand. Or something. Personally I need a bit more evidence than a second-hand report of what some doctor said.

I'll definitely look into it in the near future. It will be interesting to see what the current body of research suggests about this. You may be right - I'm no expert. I would like to be sure though. At the moment I think that children with autism do want to socialise and communicate. It's just that they may have a different idea about how to do that.



DeanAdamFry
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30 Sep 2011, 1:24 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
I said "People with autism either don't want to or are simply unaware" What I mean by unaware is they are in their own world, not aware of the reality around them and what I mean by they don't want to is that they prefer to be by themselves then be with other people but that's only the majority, some do want to socialise as you said but its definitely not the majority who want to socialise.

I'm not very good at explaining my side of the arguments and very blunt with what I say, I know the language side is another main difference as well but the OP was talking about social and was wondering what the differences are between the two disabilities, I simply gave my point of view on what my doctors told me and I must of said it very bluntly for you to react this way.


I think I get what you're saying. It's just there's no evidence for it. It's all speculation. Without evidence even your doctors are merely speculating. My problem was that proxybear asked you to provide some evidence for your claim and when you posted that wikipedia article you seemed to miss the point. It wasn't about actual behaviour but what the person was experiencing. His question was "how do you know they don't want to socialise". The wikipedia article did not directly address this question. When he said so you acted like he was stupid or something... I think it was just a misunderstanding.

Now, are your doctors a credible source? Well, you'd think a psychologist or whatever would be in the best position to know about this sort of thing. The question now is how did they come to that conclusion? Is it a guess? I mean how do you know whether a person wants to socialise or not when they aren't actually doing anything about it? The other alternative is that the doctors were simply dumbing it down for you. Giving you the lay explanation; something both you and your parents would understand. Or something. Personally I need a bit more evidence than a second-hand report of what some doctor said.

I'll definitely look into it in the near future. It will be interesting to see what the current body of research suggests about this. You may be right - I'm no expert. I would like to be sure though. At the moment I think that children with autism do want to socialise and communicate. It's just that they may have a different idea about how to do that.


Yeah that's what I mean by my doctors, she is a very smart woman and she always let me build my towers when I went to her room.

She explained my condition compared to Autism and explained it in that way, that I am stuck inbetween reality and my own world while a typical autistic person would be just in his own world and that was how she knew I had Asperger and not Autism, because when I was five I was diagonised with Autism but she was the one who correctly diagonised me with Asperger and explained it to my mother.

I know this is even more confirmed because I have a cousin who is completely autistic and he is really in his own world, he will only talk to the family if he needs to but any other time he will just play his games and when I compare myself to him, I know I'm better off then the state he is in and he is 22 years old now (I think, I know he is definitely older then my uncle Steven who is 20).



The_Perfect_Storm
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30 Sep 2011, 1:37 pm

DeanAdamFry wrote:
Yeah that's what I mean by my doctors, she is a very smart woman and she always let me build my towers when I went to her room.

She explained my condition compared to Autism and explained it in that way, that I am stuck inbetween reality and my own world while a typical autistic person would be just in his own world and that was how she knew I had Asperger and not Autism, because when I was five I was diagonised with Autism but she was the one who correctly diagonised me with Asperger and explained it to my mother.

I know this is even more confirmed because I have a cousin who is completely autistic and he is really in his own world, he will only talk to the family if he needs to but any other time he will just play his games and when I compare myself to him, I know I'm better off then the state he is in and he is 22 years old now (I think, I know he is definitely older then my uncle Steven who is 20).


Who knows, maybe he's better off. All it takes is for him to be happier than you are.



DeanAdamFry
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30 Sep 2011, 1:39 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
DeanAdamFry wrote:
Yeah that's what I mean by my doctors, she is a very smart woman and she always let me build my towers when I went to her room.

She explained my condition compared to Autism and explained it in that way, that I am stuck inbetween reality and my own world while a typical autistic person would be just in his own world and that was how she knew I had Asperger and not Autism, because when I was five I was diagonised with Autism but she was the one who correctly diagonised me with Asperger and explained it to my mother.

I know this is even more confirmed because I have a cousin who is completely autistic and he is really in his own world, he will only talk to the family if he needs to but any other time he will just play his games and when I compare myself to him, I know I'm better off then the state he is in and he is 22 years old now (I think, I know he is definitely older then my uncle Steven who is 20).


Who knows, maybe he's better off. All it takes is for him to be happier than you are.


Yeah true, he doesn't know any better so how can he feel unhappy if he already has all the things that he considers the best? He is most likely even more happier then I am because of how simple his needs are.



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27 Oct 2011, 5:29 am

Thats sad, OP... :cry:

I am. I suppose its out of choice, I still try to socialize but I realize most of my life will be defined by loneliness. I somewhat have a group that can accept the way I am but I cant handle immense interaction. No one else to blame for, but eh..

Chin up, spose



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27 Oct 2011, 4:16 pm

I am definitely a loner in the sense that I like to be alone, but I do wish I was more social. I still feel bad about not having any friends even though I'm already in my forties and should probably know better by now. But it seems I simply do not have the skills to make friends and keep them.

It was a lot better when I was younger actually. When I was a kid I did have friends, although usually only one at a time, and usually also an 'odd one out' kind of person. When I was in my teens and early twenties I was even part of a large circle of about 15 friends who got together every weekend, although I was always the silent one, never really contributing much. But now that I'm older, I suddenly realize I have no friends at all anymore. Not even one. Sometimes I don't care, as like I said I can enjoy being alone, but mostly it still somehow makes me feel like I'm a failure, like I truly suck at life.



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27 Oct 2011, 4:33 pm

Was alone as a kid, had some friends. Did not mind playing alone and tinkering with computers.
Grew up, lost most of my friends, still tinkers with computers and now prefer being alone.

My friends send me messages over the net, i hardly ever see then IRL. Only social thing i want out of life is a girlfriend, but even that would be better if we lived separately and gave each other space.


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