How to stop taking social failure personally.

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I've always wanted to meet others who share some of my more obscure interests, such as specific bands, indie coffee shops, vegetarianism, and yoga. I joined Meetup, and there was a female-only group that I really enjoyed, and I attended several different meetups with that one...that is, until one of the girls there complained to the organizer that I was socially awkward.

This came as a shock, as I thought I had reached a point where I felt my differences could be easily hidden. Though I'm on the spectrum, I've come to a point, after years of trial and error and really, really pushing myself, where I'm finally able to have reciprocal, meaningful friendships and connections with others. When most people meet me, and even when they have known me for a while, they refuse to believe that I'm on the spectrum, saying that I "don't present that way". It doesn't mean I'm perfect socially, and I have a general idea of what my weaknesses are. However, I had no idea just how much I stood out among these girls.

I told the organizer I had an ASD...she was very understanding and even offered to help me out with things. We met for coffee last weekend, and while we originally were having a great conversation, the situation got brought up near the end. She brought up all of these things that I had no idea I did, and had no idea could confuse or annoy people. And she said that all this stuff is simple, It is not freaking simple, and a lot of it means that I have to undo the entire way I socially interact!

We were on the patio, and I was trying so hard to process everything as we moved into the coffee shop that I forgot to turn down my voice. I was loud, when she whispered that I had to be quiet, I felt humiliated even more. When I have something on my mind, my volume gets thrown off and I become loud without realizing it. After months of trying to conquer this, I'm horribly reminded of it, once again. What a failure I am. After our meeting, I had a huge headache and felt like I was going to throw up. I felt so disgusted and humiliated with myself. I think I finally feel how most aspies do every day when they hear some of the people around them "correcting" them...which I rarely get.

I have become a bit more paranoid now, because I feel I can no longer rely on whether a person seems engaged and happy on the outside to judge whether they are truly enjoying my company. Guys are easier to read because they're straightforward and say what they mean, but this girl demonstrates that she and the others around her could be thinking some things and not necessarily be showing them in their face/body language/tone etc. UGH. Maybe it's because she's a girl, and she's a very socially skilled girl. But at the same time, I run into people like her all the time, and while I don't necessarily want to be their best friends, I want them, at the very least, to be convinced that I'm not awkward. As well, more than anything, I really want some close girlfriends, as most of mine have moved away. How am I supposed to find any if all I seem to find are girls who could be subconciously picking me apart?

The friends I already have are just awesome for putting up with me and seeing beyond all of my mistakes and all of my crap. The fact is, though, I am a severe social perfectionist. I don't want everyone to be my friend, but I want everyone to have a positive impression of me and to not see anything faulty. If they see any faults or if I see a reason to think they see some, I'll feel depressed and humiliated. I'm willing to work on the skills the girl I met with suggested, but in the meantime, how do I get over this horrible reaction? I thought I was okay at socializing, and to be confronted with something like this is a huge blow to my self-esteem. I've tried for years to be a good friend, and this is what I end up with. I'm tired of pushing myself and all I want is to find some girls that I can have fun with.

Hey there,
I can understand this. It's hard to fit in, and be accepted for who you are when people can be so closed-minded. Feel free to PM me and chat, if you'd like to be friends. I struggle a lot with the same feelings and often put myself out there sometimes without regard to how it hurts when I feel rejected by people. I avoid cynicism and try to embrace others, but the need for freinds is hard to overcome when I feel very different from people often. Most people have been very nice to me and accepting of my flaws when I mess up a social situation. It might be because of the region I'm in. It's very progressive, but you'll find people who are very cool--my advice is not to give up branching out, and keep talking and making friends with people.

Good luck and hope to chat!!

Gabrielle

*hugs* I'm having the same sorts of problems myself, especially when turning down the volume. I also don't understand (and sometimes am disgusted by) the way women keep everything "positive" even when they mean something negative. It totally throws me because I tend to be literal and straightforward and when I try to be positive people either think I'm sarcastic or that I'm actually saying something negative. I wind up talking too much or too little and not really connecting with anyone. It seems like everyone else knows the rules but me. When I try to do what I think is necessary it turns out to be not necessary at all or seen as "showing off." I'm really just trying to keep up with where I think everyone else it.

It's really hard to look at your social gaffes objectively because you're the one who's making them. Just remember: what people think of you and how they act towards you is all about them, not you, and you can't always control how people see you.

I have it all too. And it really hurts when people point out social mistakes, like saying, ''that was so rude!'' or, ''I wasn't speaking to you!'' (when just trying to join in). It makes me feel so patronised. I just wish there was a way to stop being so thin-skinned, but there isn't. The only way I can become thick-skinned is if I suddenly became a loner and not cared for friendships and social interaction, that way I won't get so upset when rejected or mouthed at, then it won't matter to me much whether people are horrible to me or not, and then I wouldn't care if I am being criticised for not having any friends. But, that's not for everyone - it is not unusual for an Aspie to desire friendships and cares what people think, after all, we are human aswell as anybody else; we have thoughts and feelings too, and life would be so much better if we were given a chance.

Sigh...that is one of the reasons why I cant tolerate many women that well. Because, they'll put on a pleasant outer demeanor when there thinking negative inside. And then project very subtle things in there body language to give you hints that your behavior is turning them off and you often dont end up reading them anyways. Its rather tricky. Then you get the mothery, simpathetic ones that go around being nice to you because they feel sorry for you but then they have an alterior motive. They see you as a young child and they have some maternal facination with helping you grow (or change you) into a more pleasant package. In the end. it furfills there ego that they did good for the community.

I take in social failure after social failure very badly. Its like, ohhh this again. I still manage to gather friends/good acquintances here and there. But then I'm normally more or less a social failure with everyone else. And I always get pissed, irritated and start to socially breakdown.

Don't forget some people are just "bullies" or "complainers." It may not have been you basically. It seems that both women in your story were acting a little odd (the complainer and organizer).

I know this is sorta hard to do but ignore people who are overly critical sometimes? They may have personal issues and pick on others to compensate.

This is not to say one should not improve and try new interests but be aware not all out there are mature either.

Also, I think it need not be all or nothing - perfect / non-perfect. We all make little "social" mistakes, normals and people on the spectrum. I think normals have an easier time at letting it go though. Perhaps, select a role model, in your life, who can easily let things go and think of how they do it and imitate this behavior. If it someone who can talk to about this topic, maybe get some tips.

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BTW, I like Yoga and I am a vegitarian too! You go girl!

*hugs*I empathize with the feeling that you've done everything "right" and acted just like a normal person would in a given situation and then finding our that you did x, y and z "wrong". This has happened to me before...it sucks. I also have the problem with modulating the volume of my voice.....and have gotten shushed in public as well.

I don't think you have to change the way you interact completely. These girls do seem really judgmental and intolerant ....some people ( both boys and girls in my experience) are. If you keep trying to make new friends with people from different meet-up groups or organizations you may meet people who have no problem with or enjoy the way you interact. You said that your friends that moved away didn't think you were socially awkward, so there are probably others that will agree with them. My advice is give up on the excessively persnickety , snobby girls and move on with you life!!

anneurysm, would you mind sharing some of the points the organizer mentioned that had been found difficult by the other members?

Here's what she said...the funny thing is that I think these are things that may tick off some more socially advanced people, because I have friends who just don't think these things were issues. Or maybe they were just really keeping their mouths shut. I don't know anymore. The girl I am dealing with also has ADD and had accommodations for it in school and everything...which I can see in her a little bit, but it does not affect her social skills at all.

I really, seriously think that there are two groups of NTs: those who can socialize at a "higher level" and those who can't. Some of my friends can be socially awkward at times too (and I'm talking about the ones without AS).

Anyway:

- I use active listening. I used to think that it helped to clarify the fact that I was listening and taking in what people were saying...I do a lot of ``summing up`` where I explain what they are saying in my own words. She said that summing up is good only if, say, she was going on a long winded schpeil with many different things. She emphasised that in a conversation, you have to add new concepts or value instead of just confirming what was said. I had no idea it was like this. I can see this being hard for me as I do struggle to come up with things to say that are interesting. I am very funny and witty though, and she confirmed this...I guess that is my asset in conversations.

- I`ll punctuate my speech with too many vocal stuff to indicate that I`m listening. I summed it up in a metaphor: it`s like a conversation is a tape, and every time I add something it restarts the tape again....it`s like talking during a movie. Other people I know do this too though! Maybe it`s the degree in which I do it. Again, she said it`s all about value or weight of what you say that really adds to the conversation. The reason I do this is that I want to be engaging and that I'm not sure if people think I'm really listening or that I am listening to them. It's like even if I read the nonverbal cues to indicate this, I feel like I don't think it's enough. She said a trick is that looking and nodding is often enough for indicators...for both parties. Comments are good but maybe not to the degree that I'm doing them and only to add value, I'm already putting this into practice. I was chatting with a lady on the bus into the city for about an hour and I practiced this...and she said I was a great listener. It is paying off already!

- Sometimes I am loud. I get loud when I'm trying to process/think about something or I feel nervous or anxious. It's like I can only focus on my thoughts or how I am coming across nonverbally. It is kind of exhausting to do so, and why a lot of social skills come second nature to me.

- Gestures - sometimes my gestures are too big and I should keep them under the chin.

- I explained to her the reasons behind everything as I am very self-aware due to the psychotherapy I`ve been receiving. I am desperate for people to like me and I am a social perfectionist. People are always on different tracks than I am (like many people on the spectrum, I gravitate towards a few specific things) and as a result, I often feel left out in conversations where everyone feels like they have something to say, and I don`t. I always ask questions about things I don`t know about, so I`m doing that right at least...though she said that a good idea is to limit it to one question per topic.

In a group conversation, from what she was telling me, it seems like everyone has to have equal weight, so I`m going to try my best not to act to anxious, desperate, and domineering if I`m ever in a group of new people or people I'm getting to know in the future. Whenever I go out with my friends (even my NT friends) we are always loud, weird, and random, but this is because we know each other well.

This, in my opinion isn`t major stuff, but I am working on it already and practicing it with the people I encounter, including my friends.

Also, I specifically asked her to share these with me, I just hate the way I originally feel when I am confronted with stuff like this, but I see it more positively now. She was very good at explaining them and came up with tons of examples. She is not doing this in any way to ostracise me...in fact, she really wants me to come back to the meetups and kind of begged me to do so a few times.

She seems to really respect and admire the way I am: she is also becoming a nanny for a little boy with AS, and asked me for continued advice and support for him. She noted, "now the tables have turned...the teacher becomes the student!".She also forwarded my email to his parents and they just asked me to meet with them and talk to their school and school board as they have been struggling with trying to understand him. This is something I`m already a pro at since I speak across my province on AS and am involved with the larger community.

Come to think about it....I now see connecting with hyper-NTs to be useful. Even though I'm seen under this label, they still see me as an asset....and I can use this as a tool to spread my message of awareness of behaviours/hope/acceptance.

I think we aspies have a limit to how much we can hide our nature, our neurology, and artificially emulate another nature, another neurology. I think you might be setting yourself up for burn-out and for disappointment when your "perfect" idea of overcoming our social limitations doesn't materialize. I also think that you're overcompensating, and finding out that this is another trap we aspies face, on the other extreme of being "aspie-weird", i.e. behaving NT-weird.

But if I were you, at the stage you're at and at your age, I wouldn't want anyone telling me this I'm telling you now. Just remember it for the future, if you ever feel exhausted and can't make enough effort anymore, that you've set an impossible goal for yourself and that burn-out and disappointment were very likely to occur.

It's great that this woman is willing to do the translating for you, and so well done, and in such a caring manner, and no one is better than someone who is seeing you interact in real life in a group. It's invaluable help that even a fortune cannot buy for us aspies. So just for that, it's worth the experience, even if it's so embarrassing to hear these things at the beginning, I totally agree with you.

I think that if you just become less dominant in the group, the other women will stop feeling uncomfortable by your presence.

I try not to think of it as social failure. It hurts when people you really like or care about suddenly turn on you. It hurts to feell like you are somehow "obnoxious". Some of these assumptions on my part---about myself may just be assumptions. It could be that the people who dropped me like a hot stone just realized that our personalities were not a good combination. Like a shoe that doesn't fit.
It still hurts. But I, too, have stopped contact with a few people because I just couldn't put up with some of their behavior. Maybe it boils down to finding people whose personalities are a good fit with yours.