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AztecQueen2000
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27 Feb 2014, 6:27 pm

I have a friend (a term I'm starting to apply rather loosely to this person) who I don't understand at all. She knows about my AS, but she throws it in my face when she's mad at me. She has also frequently called me manipulative. I don't think I am. I'm very straightforward with her (except when I'm angry--she's very touchy about criticism and I don't want to lose her friendship). It's just sometimes I don't know how to express myself. When I get emotional, I can't speak as well as I usually do. Meanwhile, she got on this "martyr kick" where she was whining about having no help and no adult time, but turned down all offers of both help and company. What do I do with this person. I know I should drop her, but I'm just not ready yet.



Caleban
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27 Feb 2014, 7:26 pm

ive been accused of being manipulative and im a straight forward person too.

Some people see you being straight forward as manipulative. When you straight out state your feelings on a subject some people see that as you actually trying to control them.

They dont see it as you putting your cards on the table and being open. They see it as manipulation.

I would say its got more to do with her inability to be honest rather than a problem with you.

It's brave to be honest, dont change.


As for dropping her, I dunno. You could be good for a personality like that to know. She just needs to understand where your honesty is coming from. It's not manipulation, it's being open. I think it's a trust issue from her side.

One line i draw is i only ever criticize people on things they can change. If it's behaviour im criticizing and the criticism is constructive then it's fair enough, if it's something unchangeable like the way they look then its out of order to say anything.

Maybe if you made a distinction like that with your criticism, and you explained that you would never make the criticism personal, she could find a way to trust the things that you say and wouldnt see it as being manipulative.



Last edited by Caleban on 27 Feb 2014, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pobbles
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27 Feb 2014, 7:35 pm

AztecQueen2000 wrote:
She knows about my AS, but she throws it in my face when she's mad at me. She has also frequently called me manipulative.


Sounds like this person doesn't deserve you as a friend.



aspieZim
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02 Mar 2014, 2:22 am

Your 'friend' might be going thru some tough times and it's probably beyond your abilities to help her.

For an aspie to be manipulative it requires understanding of how people think and work, being able to read them like a book and able to play with them real-time. I don't think most aspies have that ability. I have it but it's not all the time. sometimes i'm socially clueless and not only incapable of interacting with others i can't even express myself properly, other times i'm confident, charming and I can manipulate people extremely well. Today was one of those days, at the auto repair shop I was able to talk them into giving me half price on alignment and two new tires. i'm really surprised and even though i did it i have no clue how it happened, i wish i can do it every day.
I know aspies have issues expressing themselves too, i struggle with that on a regular basis. Sometimes i can express myself very well, other times not only I can't, people completely misunderstand me. It's frustrating and occasionally painful when people don't understand me, especially when i'm looking for help.

I don't think we mean to intentionally miscommunicate ourselves, I think either your friend is having major problems of her own and you can either attempt to help her, or you can ditch her before she hurts you.

(edit)
additional thought- is it possible its the other way around? she is manipulating you?



Waterfalls
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02 Mar 2014, 12:50 pm

So don't drop her. Just pull away little bit. She's either being cruel when she accuses you of being manipulative or she feels manipulated and assumes that's your intent, when in fact it is as much about her as about you.

Giving her room should help you both. Sometimes being compassionate about the other persons struggle helps when they are feeling pushed around by you or the world. Say something kind and see what happens.

There is a dark side to doing this, you can lose yourself if you put too much into taking care of other people. But I think you can try it, see what happens. Since you don't want to drop her.

Be careful though. The world is full of people who will feel if you seem off it's annoying enough to justify whatever they want to do to you. Hopefully that isn't happening here, but watch, see what you think, what she does next.



nick007
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09 Mar 2014, 12:28 pm

aspieZim wrote:
For an aspie to be manipulative it requires understanding of how people think and work, being able to read them like a book and able to play with them real-time. I don't think most aspies have that ability. I have it but it's not all the time. sometimes i'm socially clueless and not only incapable of interacting with others i can't even express myself properly, other times i'm confident, charming and I can manipulate people extremely well.
I've been accused of being manipulative by my mom on many occasions & I have all those problems. I think it was related to my Aspie issues that were misunderstood like trying to get my needs/wants met by negotiation, nagging, trowing tantrums & being verbally abusive during my Aspie meltdowns. Perhaps the friend in question sees some of the Aspie related behaviors as being manipulative when the OP is not trying to.


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Oh, you can't help that, said the Cat: we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
How do you know I'm mad? said Alice.
You must be, said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.


Summer_Twilight
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11 Mar 2014, 3:21 pm

Dropping someone is never easy no matter how the dice is tossed but in your case I really feel that it would be all for the best. She sounds like she is rather manipulative herself and is therefore just talking about herself and the problems that revolve around her.

Manipulations can come as:

1. "I forgot my wallet today can you spring for us? I will get it the next time." Then it never happens as you are the one always paying for things.
2. Using your Autism as an excuse for inappropriate behavior and attention
3. Pretending to cry and act out so others will feel sorry for you.


I knew someone just like that back in the day that would often say things that they did not mean. I would get upset and look at that behavior as promise breaking and I would call them out. I would then get a really ugly response from them via voice mail. They would then hang up with a "I have problems and if you can't understand that then our friendship is over."



RheyQUB
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12 Mar 2014, 6:30 am

I have had someone that called me manipulative while taking advantage of my inability to deal with other people. She ruined two of my friendships and began a campaign of emotional abuse during which she attempted to control how I thought and argued, usually by means of guilting me into feeling like I was abusing her.

I saw through it eventually with some help and it helped me learn a little more about how to spot such people. We don't speak any more.

A few signs for people that want to know what this is like:

- they preface every explanation they give with "I know you don't understand, but"
- their feelings take precedence to yours and yours are assumed wrong
- they attempt to control what you think or say by invoking your autistic qualities

If any of these things happen, be very wary about their "advice".



Summer_Twilight
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13 Mar 2014, 12:09 pm

It also sounds like she is "Blaming the victim" which can be another form of manipulation as a way of avoiding her own responsibilities.



Erwin
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18 Mar 2014, 1:42 am

Pobbles wrote:
AztecQueen2000 wrote:
She knows about my AS, but she throws it in my face when she's mad at me. She has also frequently called me manipulative.


Sounds like this person doesn't deserve you as a friend.

She sees her as higher than hereself evident by calling her manipulative. Human psychology is quite unresearched.