Do women have a bigger issue with honesty than men?

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GammaRayBob
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19 Feb 2021, 12:09 am

KT67 wrote:
1 If a guy has problems with 'lgbt style feminism' he probably doesn't deserve honesty or the companionship of anyone other than cis het men.
2 Women are socialised to lie for the sake of nicety so, probably
3 Women also lie for the sake of safety so if she feels unsafe, she's not going to be 100% upfront
4 Can't expect someone to be 100% upfront unless you are, too
5 If a guy talks about how he's against feminism & lgbt rights, can't blame someone for being cautious around him


Big problem with your argument dude/dudette:

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

2. I wasn't not upfront with her; in fact, I didn't say a single thing to her that wasn't honest. Please point out where in my description of events I say or do anything dishonest.

3. I never said anything to her to even remotely suggest I had a problem with lgbt/feminist women. I may be saying it now but unless she's a telepath, she'd have no way of knowing that so your argument is invalid. Nor is there anything written on my Facebook account that suggests it but she obviously wouldn't be able to see it anyway...

4. I DON'T have a problem with feminist/LGBT rights whatsoever and that's an absurd conclusion based on what I've said. I said that I believe many of them have a tendency towards truth manipulation... what does that have to do with "rights"? Like, the right to lie? They do have the right to lie, just like I have the right to take issue with it. It's ironic that you're calling me out on making assumptions about certain kinds of people when you've made a pretty egregious assumption about me based on no evidence.



GammaRayBob
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19 Feb 2021, 1:12 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
I don't understand what you mean, I just gave you a plethora of reasons why I believed she was lying... just because you don't accept those reasons as valid doesn't mean they don't exist. I made it pretty clear that she alluded multiple times to wanting to meet in person, which means she lied to the guy who called her out on not social distancing.

"Alluding to" wanting to meet in person does not necessarily mean that the person saying this intends to meet in person immediately. A lot of people are really tired of lockdown, even while still understanding that it's still necessary. Simply voicing frustration at being unable to meet in person does not constitute a statement of intent to violate social distancing rules.

What, more precisely, did she say, that led you to believe she intended to plan immediate (rather than eventual) in-person meetings?

It's difficult to say definitively because then it's easy to give the benefit of the doubt due to possible "margin for error" but like I said, posting something that says "How come no one wants to make music these days?" (not in general but during the current time period) and then responding to someone else saying that musicians are everywhere with "but no one ever ends up actually meeting up" really makes it sound that she was wondering why no one's meeting up presently. At least that's what it sounds like to me but tbh, you could have a point and maybe I misread it. Truth is, I thought there was the possibility that I was overthinking it, which is why I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and contacted her.

GammaRayBob wrote:
She had no reason to justify herself to him since, as stated, it wasn't his place to tell her what she should be doing but she still felt the need to "prove him wrong"

Whether it was "his place" or not, his remark might have led her to realize that perhaps other people, too, might be interpreting her remarks as an announcement of intent to meet with people before the end of lockdown. That being the case, why shouldn't she clarify her intent, if indeed that's not what she meant?

GammaRayBob wrote:
This is a tactic that many women (and, yes, some men as well but much less so) use to take the moral high ground, even when they know the other person is correct about their intentions. There's no need to do this, especially if you believe that you're in the right, so that really just solidifies the fact that they're not secure in their actions so they hide the truth. Someone who was confident in their actions would say "I don't care what you think, I can do what I want" but she obviously did care and therefore twisted the narrative around to make herself look "right" either way. It's an ego/pride issue taken to a pretty pathetic extreme since the guy was a completely random stranger whom she didn't even owe an explanation to.

You might have a point here if she and the "completely random stranger" were the only people in on the conversation. However, given that the conversation was being witnessed by a whole bunch of other people including you, it's only natural that she would want to clear up any confusion.

I really don't understand why you perceive a lie here. You seem absolutely determined to assume the worst.

GammaRayBob wrote:
As for my profile, I clearly explained this as well... there's no way she couldn't have seen everything on my profile since it's all public. Not public for certain people, public for everyone. I have plenty of photos AND videos of myself to verify who I am and they're all immediately visible.

However, she would have no way of knowing that she is seeing "everything" unless you accepted her friend request.

You might feel that she is being unduly nosy. But this would mean only that you and she have an incompatibility in your respective getting-to-know-people polices, not that she is lying.

This is much less defendable... there's already so much content on my profile visible that even if she *wasn't * seeing everything, she'd have no reason to. What was she looking for exactly, videos of me raping and killing women? No one needs to see everything on someone's profile to get a sense of whether that person is who they claim to be (not that I claimed to be anyone in the first place). There's over a dozen videos of me drumming, so unless that's actually someone else, what more verification do you need?

GammaRayBob wrote:
But according to you, not being able to see my friends list made her suspicious that my profile was fake,

To be more precise, it may have deprived her of one of her preferred routine ways of determining whether a profile is fake.

What do you think her reason was for wanting to see your friends list?

I have a suspicion that she saw my drumming videos and, because I'm autistic, possibly thought I looked weird and that I might be an incel (read: unattractive beta male). I don't present very attractively so she thought it would make sense to see if I had Instagram, not to verify who I was but to see how many pics and friends I had liking and commenting on said pics because that would've led her believe I was actually popular and therefore "normal". There's truly no other reason to ask to see someone's Instagram except to see how popular that person is, it's not an identity verifier. Women, especially feminists, loathe autistic men, especifically ones that look socially awkward and like they may have difficulty making friends. They regularly accuse them of being incels and wanting to murder them.

GammaRayBob wrote:
even though countless, obviously real profiles with plenty of visible content oftentimes have hidden friend lists and/or few friends.

True, but different people use Facebook in different ways, with different expectations.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Gotcha. She was lying, period.

Also, why ask for my Instagram profile BEFORE sending me a Facebook friend request anyway?

Perhaps she had hoped to get more info about you before sending a Facebook friend request? Perhaps she might have hoped that the Facebook friend request would be perceived as less nosy, or generally less forward, if you were to interact a bit on Instagram first?

How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect. Also, like I said in my initial post, she claimed she got nervous meeting people but that just didn't ring true for me. Nervous people who truly are afraid of meeting just anyone in general wouldn't be on these sites desperately trying to meet up with people and then posting why everyone's ignoring them, it's just not consistent behaviour.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Instagram profiles can easily be faked as well and they're absolutely not a good verification of who someone is because they're mostly pictures and they could easily be of someone else.

Be that as it may, it would have been an opportunity to interact with you in a different medium and thus, hopefully, gain more insights about you.

We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting? Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible. If Facebook wasn't sufficient for her to learn about me, what would she glean from Instagram? And if she lied about that, why should I trust that her motives are genuine?

GammaRayBob wrote:
The answer is simple

What, exactly, is the alleged "simple" answer? What do you think her aim was?

Her aim was to avoid hanging out with undesirable individuals who make her uncomfortable. Not unsafe... uncomfortable. Big difference. Both men and women will hang out with murderers, rapists and pedophiles if they're attracted to them. It's not about safety as people claim, it's about being around people you want to be around. Some of of the most vile, horrific and dangerous individuals have tons of friends. Making people uncomfortable is the only definitive social dealbreaker. Autistic people know this as well as anyone but they're the few people who will actually admit to it because they suffer from it the most.

GammaRayBob wrote:
but you're overcomplicating it because it appears you have a dog in this fight.

My only "dog in this fight" is that I am a woman and you are making a blanket accusation against women -- and you are backing up that blanket accusation with an alleged example that makes no sense whatsoever.

GammaRayBob wrote:
You're seriously bending over backwards pretending like you don't notice anything suspicious about this,

Nothing to pretend here. I see absolutely not the even the tiniest, slightest basis for accusing her of lying.

I'm not saying you should trust her, either. You don't know her, so you have no idea how trustworthy she might or might not be. But, based on what you have said so far, it does not appear to me that you have caught her in any lies.

I can understand that you would feel annoyed by her apparent desire to see your friends list, given your own preference for not sharing same. And indeed you don't owe her your friends list. But this doesn't necessarily mean she's lying or has some malevolent motive. It just means you and she have incompatible ways of getting to know people via Facebook.

"It just means you and she have incompatible ways of getting to know people via Facebook." I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. Incompatible in what way?

GammaRayBob wrote:
which is kind of suspicious in and of itself. I mean, it's one thing to say MAYBE the person was telling the truth about SOME things but the way you're going overboard with the hear no evil, see no evil routine is a bit much.

My stance here is "innocent until proven guilty."



Mona Pereth
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19 Feb 2021, 6:05 am

Could you please learn how to use the quote feature? Your replies to things I said were buried in one long quote from me, in a manner that made what you said visually indistinguishable from what I said.

In my reply below, I have fixed the quote formatting.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
What, more precisely, did she say, that led you to believe she intended to plan immediate (rather than eventual) in-person meetings?


It's difficult to say definitively because then it's easy to give the benefit of the doubt due to possible "margin for error" but like I said, posting something that says "How come no one wants to make music these days?" (not in general but during the current time period) and then responding to someone else saying that musicians are everywhere with "but no one ever ends up actually meeting up" really makes it sound that she was wondering why no one's meeting up presently. At least that's what it sounds like to me but tbh, you could have a point and maybe I misread it. Truth is, I thought there was the possibility that I was overthinking it, which is why I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and contacted her.

Okay. Good to see you acknowledging that you don't know, for sure, what her intentions were. (Of course I don't know what her intentions were either, not having seen it.)

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
However, she would have no way of knowing that she is seeing "everything" unless you accepted her friend request.

You might feel that she is being unduly nosy. But this would mean only that you and she have an incompatibility in your respective getting-to-know-people polices, not that she is lying.


This is much less defendable... there's already so much content on my profile visible that even if she *wasn't * seeing everything, she'd have no reason to. What was she looking for exactly, videos of me raping and killing women? No one needs to see everything on someone's profile to get a sense of whether that person is who they claim to be (not that I claimed to be anyone in the first place). There's over a dozen videos of me drumming, so unless that's actually someone else, what more verification do you need?

Well, she very well might have wanted to see your friends list, as you suspect.

But I can think of multiple possible reasons why she might want to see your friends list. A friends list is harder (though not impossible) to fake than any other part of a profile. So, the longer the friends list, the more likely (other factors being equal) that the profile is genuine. Additionally, she may have wanted to see if you had any friends in common, which could potentially be a big plus if you happened to have any friends in common, and if she then asked them about you and got a favorable response.

GammaRayBob wrote:
MonaPereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
But according to you, not being able to see my friends list made her suspicious that my profile was fake,

To be more precise, it may have deprived her of one of her preferred routine ways of determining whether a profile is fake.

What do you think her reason was for wanting to see your friends list?


I have a suspicion that she saw my drumming videos and, because I'm autistic, possibly thought I looked weird and that I might be an incel (read: unattractive beta male). I don't present very attractively so she thought it would make sense to see if I had Instagram, not to verify who I was but to see how many pics and friends I had liking and commenting on said pics because that would've led her believe I was actually popular and therefore "normal".

While that's certainly a possible motive too, it's far from the only possible motive.

GammaRayBob wrote:
There's truly no other reason to ask to see someone's Instagram except to see how popular that person is, it's not an identity verifier.

As I explained above, it can indeed establish a greater likelihood that a profile is genuine. And it might also be a way to see if you have any friends in common, which would be a plus.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Women, especially feminists, loathe autistic men, specifically ones that look socially awkward and like they may have difficulty making friends.

I agree that there's a lot of prejudice against autistic men and that that's a problem.

And it happens to be one of the problems I dream of finding longterm solutions for.

Based on my knowledge of the history of other marginalized groups, I am convinced that a prerequisite to solving this and many other problems, for more than just a lucky few of us, is for some of us to build a much bigger and better-organized, autistic community than now exists. (See Longterm visions for the autistic community, and see also Possible ways to help many autistic people find love?.)

GammaRayBob wrote:
They regularly accuse them of being incels and wanting to murder them.

Or at least fear that they might be part of the misogynistic "incel" subculture and want to murder them.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Also, why ask for my Instagram profile BEFORE sending me a Facebook friend request anyway?

Perhaps she had hoped to get more info about you before sending a Facebook friend request? Perhaps she might have hoped that the Facebook friend request would be perceived as less nosy, or generally less forward, if you were to interact a bit on Instagram first?


How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect.

She might consider it to be less nosy because your Instagram profile, if you had one, might contain at least some parts that are available to the general public, whereas a lot of people (you're far from the only one) don't like to accept friend requests from all and sundry.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Also, like I said in my initial post, she claimed she got nervous meeting people but that just didn't ring true for me. Nervous people who truly are afraid of meeting just anyone in general wouldn't be on these sites desperately trying to meet up with people and then posting why everyone's ignoring them, it's just not consistent behaviour.

"Consistent" or not, it's extremely common and not at all unlikely. There are lots and lots and lots of people who wish they had more friends, and who know that they have to meet new people in order to get more friends, yet at the same time are very nervous about meeting new people, for a variety of reasons.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Instagram profiles can easily be faked as well and they're absolutely not a good verification of who someone is because they're mostly pictures and they could easily be of someone else.

Be that as it may, it would have been an opportunity to interact with you in a different medium and thus, hopefully, gain more insights about you.


We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting?

If there were a bunch of people liking and commenting on stuff on your profile, it would be further evidence (though not absolute proof) that your profile was genuine.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible.

Did she claim she couldn't see anything at all on your Facebook profile, or did she just assume that there was more to see than she was already seeing?

(If the former, my first question would be whether something might have changed on Facebook itself, such that stuff previously visible to the general public wasn't visible any longer, or perhaps had become temporarily invisible due to a temporary Facebook glitch. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the person who said this was lying -- although, of course, that's a possibility too.)

GammaRayBob wrote:
If Facebook wasn't sufficient for her to learn about me, what would she glean from Instagram?

See above.

GammaRayBob wrote:
And if she lied about that,

You still haven't identified a provable lie.

GammaRayBob wrote:
why should I trust that her motives are genuine?

One should never trust a complete stranger. On the other hand, it's not a good idea to jump to malevolent conclusions about people either.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
The answer is simple

What, exactly, is the alleged "simple" answer? What do you think her aim was?


Her aim was to avoid hanging out with undesirable individuals who make her uncomfortable. Not unsafe... uncomfortable. Big difference.

Well, yes, most people do want to avoid people who make them feel uncomfortable for whatever reason, as well as avoid people who make them feel unsafe.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Both men and women will hang out with murderers, rapists and pedophiles if they're attracted to them. It's not about safety as people claim, it's about being around people you want to be around. Some of of the most vile, horrific and dangerous individuals have tons of friends.

Alas, it's certainly true that some of the most vile people know how to be charmers and make themselves popular.

But that doesn't mean safety is unimportant and irrelevant, at least to most people. It means that people, in general, have less-than-perfect judgment about who is or is not safe, and that all too many people are easily fooled by truly vile people who know how to be charming.

(There are also some very immature people, primarily some teenagers, who truly don't care about safety, and who think they're immortal and invincible, but most of them outgrow this, and I'm not under the impression that this is a universal problem even among teenagers. There are also some people who grew up in abusive families and are drawn to abusive people simply because abusive people seem more familiar, but this too is probably not the majority of people.)

GammaRayBob wrote:
Making people uncomfortable is the only definitive social dealbreaker.

It's an exaggeration to say that it's the only social dealbreaker, but, yes, people do avoid people they are uncomfortable with for whatever reason.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Autistic people know this as well as anyone but they're the few people who will actually admit to it because they suffer from it the most.

Lots of people have been harmed by various kinds of prejudice. For example, there are still lots of white people who feel uncomfortable around black people, although this has gradually lessened.

But the reason why black people (or at least black NT's) have managed to make much more progress than autistic people is that black people have an organized community capable of supporting a powerful civil rights movement.

Ditto for the LGBT community.

Again, please see Longterm visions for the autistic community.


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OutsideView
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19 Feb 2021, 7:22 am

GammaRayBob, what's so secret about your friends list that you keep it hidden but not the rest of your profile? Also, I don't have much Facebook knowledge but what would be so bad about adding her as a friend then removing her if you don't get along? Did you only talk to her to try and trick her into saying she wanted to meet in person so you could prove she was lying?


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KT67
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19 Feb 2021, 7:47 am

GammaRayBob wrote:
Big problem with your argument dude/dudette:

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

2. I wasn't not upfront with her; in fact, I didn't say a single thing to her that wasn't honest. Please point out where in my description of events I say or do anything dishonest.

3. I never said anything to her to even remotely suggest I had a problem with lgbt/feminist women. I may be saying it now but unless she's a telepath, she'd have no way of knowing that so your argument is invalid. Nor is there anything written on my Facebook account that suggests it but she obviously wouldn't be able to see it anyway...

4. I DON'T have a problem with feminist/LGBT rights whatsoever and that's an absurd conclusion based on what I've said. I said that I believe many of them have a tendency towards truth manipulation... what does that have to do with "rights"? Like, the right to lie? They do have the right to lie, just like I have the right to take issue with it. It's ironic that you're calling me out on making assumptions about certain kinds of people when you've made a pretty egregious assumption about me based on no evidence.


You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

People communicate with potential risks every day.

If you don't think you're doing that, you're either a six foot, built, NT cis guy between the ages of 20 and 60 who's prepared to use physical force to enforce your boundaries or you're only talking with family/family friends who have been vetted by family or you're incredibly naive.

Thing is: navigate the risk. Don't tell everyone everything up front. Don't be the aspie or the child who does that. This is why kids aren't allowed to talk to strangers, because they don't know that.

Do you go out with your front door unlocked, not go out at all or go out but lock your door?

Locking the door isn't the same thing as calling the woman walking past your house a thief. It's the same thing as saying 'look, if she is a thief, I don't want it to be easy for her, if she isn't a thief then this won't bother her'.

People have boundaries and there is nothing wrong with that. People tell white lies. Nothing wrong with that.

NTs and high functioning enough autistic people 'lie'. It's not really lying. It's keeping polite and safe at the same time. It's a practice learned in teenage years and adult years and part of growing up, it's what allows us to talk to people who aren't either family friends or family.


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19 Feb 2021, 8:27 am

KT67 wrote:
You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt with that. I only just noticed your signature at the end of your last post although I did remember you saying you were a trans guy before. I'm hoping he didn't know and was just trying not to be offensive.


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KT67
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19 Feb 2021, 8:49 am

OutsideView wrote:
KT67 wrote:
You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt with that. I only just noticed your signature at the end of your last post although I did remember you saying you were a trans guy before. I'm hoping he didn't know and was just trying not to be offensive.


I just wish the site made it easier to change tag.

Although I will be honest & say life experience as a trans guy is distinctly different to life experience as a cis guy. Predator blindness is cut out at a younger age when you're afab, I think.

Seriously though, I warn everyone including cis guys to be on your guard unless you're prepared to put up a physical fight. Not everyone has your best interests in mind. Doesn't necessarily mean sexually. Don't be the person who gives strangers your bank account details because they ask for them & 'honesty is important' or who believes everything everyone says and ends up being led into a cult. Put your guard up when you first meet someone. Not cos 99% of people out there are bad people, but because 1% of people are (metaphorical stats) and it's worth being careful - everyone is a potential threat until you get to know them well so be nice to them & go out and talk to strangers (every adult's right) but have your boundaries/guard up too and let them do the same back.


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Mona Pereth
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19 Feb 2021, 9:10 am

GammaRayBob wrote:
1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

She didn't know you well enough to know whether you are safe or not.

And almost certainly that's one of the reasons (even if not the only reason) why she wanted to learn as much about you as she reasonably could before meeting you in person.

Meeting new people is always risky. So it's only natural that she would want to reduce the risk by learning more about you.

Do you think she should just instantly trust you???

See also my reply to you here.


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GammaRayBob
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19 Feb 2021, 11:33 pm

KT67 wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Big problem with your argument dude/dudette:

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

2. I wasn't not upfront with her; in fact, I didn't say a single thing to her that wasn't honest. Please point out where in my description of events I say or do anything dishonest.

3. I never said anything to her to even remotely suggest I had a problem with lgbt/feminist women. I may be saying it now but unless she's a telepath, she'd have no way of knowing that so your argument is invalid. Nor is there anything written on my Facebook account that suggests it but she obviously wouldn't be able to see it anyway...

4. I DON'T have a problem with feminist/LGBT rights whatsoever and that's an absurd conclusion based on what I've said. I said that I believe many of them have a tendency towards truth manipulation... what does that have to do with "rights"? Like, the right to lie? They do have the right to lie, just like I have the right to take issue with it. It's ironic that you're calling me out on making assumptions about certain kinds of people when you've made a pretty egregious assumption about me based on no evidence.


You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

People communicate with potential risks every day.

If you don't think you're doing that, you're either a six foot, built, NT cis guy between the ages of 20 and 60 who's prepared to use physical force to enforce your boundaries or you're only talking with family/family friends who have been vetted by family or you're incredibly naive.

Thing is: navigate the risk. Don't tell everyone everything up front. Don't be the aspie or the child who does that. This is why kids aren't allowed to talk to strangers, because they don't know that.

Do you go out with your front door unlocked, not go out at all or go out but lock your door?

Locking the door isn't the same thing as calling the woman walking past your house a thief. It's the same thing as saying 'look, if she is a thief, I don't want it to be easy for her, if she isn't a thief then this won't bother her'.

People have boundaries and there is nothing wrong with that. People tell white lies. Nothing wrong with that.

NTs and high functioning enough autistic people 'lie'. It's not really lying. It's keeping polite and safe at the same time. It's a practice learned in teenage years and adult years and part of growing up, it's what allows us to talk to people who aren't either family friends or family.


You didn't actually address anything I wrote, you just kinda sidestepped it and changed the subject. I'd like to address what you wrote but I think it'd be nice if you did the same for me first, otherwise it feels a bit like I'm talking to myself. Unless of course you don't feel like what you wrote was important but then, why bother writing it?



GammaRayBob
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19 Feb 2021, 11:44 pm

KT67 wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Big problem with your argument dude/dudette:

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

2. I wasn't not upfront with her; in fact, I didn't say a single thing to her that wasn't honest. Please point out where in my description of events I say or do anything dishonest.

3. I never said anything to her to even remotely suggest I had a problem with lgbt/feminist women. I may be saying it now but unless she's a telepath, she'd have no way of knowing that so your argument is invalid. Nor is there anything written on my Facebook account that suggests it but she obviously wouldn't be able to see it anyway...

4. I DON'T have a problem with feminist/LGBT rights whatsoever and that's an absurd conclusion based on what I've said. I said that I believe many of them have a tendency towards truth manipulation... what does that have to do with "rights"? Like, the right to lie? They do have the right to lie, just like I have the right to take issue with it. It's ironic that you're calling me out on making assumptions about certain kinds of people when you've made a pretty egregious assumption about me based on no evidence.


You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

People communicate with potential risks every day.

If you don't think you're doing that, you're either a six foot, built, NT cis guy between the ages of 20 and 60 who's prepared to use physical force to enforce your boundaries or you're only talking with family/family friends who have been vetted by family or you're incredibly naive.

Thing is: navigate the risk. Don't tell everyone everything up front. Don't be the aspie or the child who does that. This is why kids aren't allowed to talk to strangers, because they don't know that.

Do you go out with your front door unlocked, not go out at all or go out but lock your door?

Locking the door isn't the same thing as calling the woman walking past your house a thief. It's the same thing as saying 'look, if she is a thief, I don't want it to be easy for her, if she isn't a thief then this won't bother her'.

People have boundaries and there is nothing wrong with that. People tell white lies. Nothing wrong with that.

NTs and high functioning enough autistic people 'lie'. It's not really lying. It's keeping polite and safe at the same time. It's a practice learned in teenage years and adult years and part of growing up, it's what allows us to talk to people who aren't either family friends or family.


And your profile says female while your signature implies that you're male. Forgive me for being confused, which is why I used both dude and dudette. How you choose to identify is your own business.



Last edited by GammaRayBob on 20 Feb 2021, 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

GammaRayBob
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20 Feb 2021, 12:18 am

OutsideView wrote:
GammaRayBob, what's so secret about your friends list that you keep it hidden but not the rest of your profile? Also, I don't have much Facebook knowledge but what would be so bad about adding her as a friend then removing her if you don't get along? Did you only talk to her to try and trick her into saying she wanted to meet in person so you could prove she was lying?


Nope, no trick, legitimately wanted to meet but was getting suspicious and sketchy vibes from her, like she was suspicious of me but not for legitimate reasons. Normally I wouldn't have cared and would've just gone along with it but I've spoken to/met up with and then been promptly ghosted by so many people that I've been more on my guard as of late. So if my red flags start going up, so do my defenses. It gets tiring after a while but I'm just about on the cusp of not bothering to deal with people anymore entirely. Way I saw it, if this is how things were going virtually, it wasn't going to be much better in person so I eventually bailed.

I don't like adding random people to Facebook anymore when I don't end up talking to them so gave up on that in general but in this case, since I felt she had ulterior motives, I didn't want to give her satisfaction of thinking she "duped" me into trusting her. Again, defense mechanism I've developed recently.

The reason I keep my friends list hidden is because, like with her, I feel people may judge others based on that and be more discriminatory so just to be safe.



GammaRayBob
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20 Feb 2021, 1:25 am

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Also, why ask for my Instagram profile BEFORE sending me a Facebook friend request anyway?

Perhaps she had hoped to get more info about you before sending a Facebook friend request? Perhaps she might have hoped that the Facebook friend request would be perceived as less nosy, or generally less forward, if you were to interact a bit on Instagram first?


How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect.

Quote:
She might consider it to be less nosy because your Instagram profile, if you had one, might contain at least some parts that are available to the general public, whereas a lot of people (you're far from the only one) don't like to accept friend requests from all and sundry.


True but when you already have access to someone's public Facebook profile and then ask if they have Instagram as well, it seems a tad more nosy than need be. It just makes me ask "why?" I haven't usually had a problem with it in the past but I'm much more guarded these days.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
GammaRayBob wrote:
Instagram profiles can easily be faked as well and they're absolutely not a good verification of who someone is because they're mostly pictures and they could easily be of someone else.

Be that as it may, it would have been an opportunity to interact with you in a different medium and thus, hopefully, gain more insights about you.


We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting?

Quote:
If there were a bunch of people liking and commenting on stuff on your profile, it would be further evidence (though not absolute proof) that your profile was genuine.


My Facebook profile already had plenty of that though, which I deemed to be sufficient.

GammaRayBob wrote:
Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible.

Quote:
Did she claim she couldn't see anything at all on your Facebook profile, or did she just assume that there was more to see than she was already seeing? (If the former, my first question would be whether something might have changed on Facebook itself, such that stuff previously visible to the general public wasn't visible any longer, or perhaps had become temporarily invisible due to a temporary Facebook glitch. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the person who said this was lying -- although, of course, that's a possibility too.)


When I asked her if she "couldn't see anything" on my profile, she just wrote back "yeah.." which didn't seem convincing to me (I mean, what's with the ellipsis anyway, is she trying to sound less believable? But I digress). I've never heard of a Facebook glitch that does that but hey, it could be a crazy coincidence. Also, she said that she doesn't meet up with people whom she can't verify, which further confirms that she was positing that she couldn't see anything on my profile. So this doesn't seem to be a case of her just wanting a different medium to talk through but rather a way of "verifying" who I am. But again, I have no idea why she wouldn't have been able to see my content.

GammaRayBob wrote:
And if she lied about that,

Quote:
You still haven't identified a provable lie.


"If" is hypothetical.

GammaRayBob wrote:
why should I trust that her motives are genuine?

Quote:
One should never trust a complete stranger. On the other hand, it's not a good idea to jump to malevolent conclusions about people either.


I wasn't implying malevolence, just disingenuousness. I'm not under the impression that she was trying to cause any harm to me, it was obviously out of self-interest and therefore not a personal attack.

The rest of your points are valid however.



Last edited by GammaRayBob on 20 Feb 2021, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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20 Feb 2021, 2:38 am

GammaRayBob wrote:
Nope, no trick, legitimately wanted to meet but was getting suspicious and sketchy vibes from her, like she was suspicious of me but not for legitimate reasons. Normally I wouldn't have cared and would've just gone along with it but I've spoken to/met up with and then been promptly ghosted by so many people that I've been more on my guard as of late. So if my red flags start going up, so do my defenses. It gets tiring after a while but I'm just about on the cusp of not bothering to deal with people anymore entirely. Way I saw it, if this is how things were going virtually, it wasn't going to be much better in person so I eventually bailed.

I don't like adding random people to Facebook anymore when I don't end up talking to them so gave up on that in general but in this case, since I felt she had ulterior motives, I didn't want to give her satisfaction of thinking she "duped" me into trusting her. Again, defense mechanism I've developed recently.

Now that you've put this in the context of your overall frustrations with trying to meet people via Facebook, your reactions make more sense at least on an emotional level.

So perhaps trying to meet people via Facebook generally is just not a good idea.

Have you tried Meetup groups devoted to specific interests of yours?


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OutsideView
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20 Feb 2021, 6:51 am

Looking back over the thread it seems that some woman explained she wanted to meet people in person after lockdown not during so you got suspicious because she might actually have been trying to save face and not admit to breaking the rules. You did want to meet her so you started chatting but when she got interested and wanted to find out more about you you turned her away and she stopped talking to you. You were willing to meet in person but not be friends on Facebook and you don't see why she found that strange. Then because you noticed she was an LGBT+ feminist you decided to make a post on here suggesting that women are generally less honest than men despite saying you know it might get you a lot of hate. Then in the thread you're not really interested in that topic anyway and instead just want to talk about this woman.

I don't mean this in a mocking way but did you actually quite like her?


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KT67
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20 Feb 2021, 3:04 pm

GammaRayBob wrote:

You didn't actually address anything I wrote, you just kinda sidestepped it and changed the subject. I'd like to address what you wrote but I think it'd be nice if you did the same for me first, otherwise it feels a bit like I'm talking to myself. Unless of course you don't feel like what you wrote was important but then, why bother writing it?


OK then I'm gonna act like a teacher here lol. Not that I'm a trained teacher but whatever.

People talk to people every day.

People are potential risks until they get to know each other.

NTs are allistic. People who are allistic as well as some autistic people feel a need to socially interact.

They don't like their social circles being too small.

So they deal with the potential risk.

They try to minimise that risk by getting to know someone as well as possible before knowing them.

If you are a person like me who doesn't particularly want the risk enough where they're willing to sacrifice the new meeting of stranger, don't meet up with people.

If you do want to meet up with people, then there are always risks.

Unless you are grown up enough to accept that, you shouldn't be going round meeting up with strangers. I don't care about your chronological age.

I am not saying you're risky. I'm saying everyone is a potential risk until they are got to know with.

It's not my fault if that doesn't sink in, I'm not a secondary school PSE teacher.


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KT67
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20 Feb 2021, 3:10 pm

Also, misgendering is a dick move only done to people you dislike or disrespect, hen.


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