Do you think this is true (not for everyone)?

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Earthbound_Alien
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16 Jun 2022, 1:54 pm

Earthbound_Alien wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I'm aware that a lot of autistics have difficulties in both or neither. Also I think having difficulties with both could be down to autism severity and co-morbids.

But I think relationships are easier for some autistic women than they are for a lot of autistic men.


no its a struggle trying to be normal.


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Girls, however, are much more complicated, and it's more common in autistic girls to desire friendships than it is for autistic boys. And if a girl is an outcast or whatever, she may want to hide it by being bitchy, rather than forming a group with other outcasts and accepting their differences. And girls are under more pressure to be mature. In high school us girls had to stand around gossiping while boys still seemed to get to play. It was actually socially unacceptable for girls to climb the climbing-frame at high school. Once I did, and a boy came along and called me an f-ing freak.



no

and the boys liked me, the girls didnt

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Again, I'm not speaking for every autistic person.


i know



hurtloam
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16 Jun 2022, 2:06 pm

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And if a girl is an outcast or whatever, she may want to hide it by being bitchy, rather than forming a group with other outcasts and accepting their differences.



That describes an ex friend of mine well. I stopped talking to her because she was just always tearing people down.



Joe90
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16 Jun 2022, 2:25 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Quote:
And if a girl is an outcast or whatever, she may want to hide it by being bitchy, rather than forming a group with other outcasts and accepting their differences.



That describes an ex friend of mine well. I stopped talking to her because she was just always tearing people down.


When I was in high school I found a group of outcasts but they were so bitchy towards me, and I could tell it was to hide their social difficulties. For some reason it's not in my nature at all to be nasty to people, I've always taken people as I find them and treated others how I like to be treated.

My male cousin who had Aspie traits (but was never diagnosed so I can't prove for sure that he's on the spectrum but he did display more traits than me) found school hard and didn't like sports, but although he was shy he still managed to find himself a group of geeky sort of boys to hang out with. Even as an adult, according to his Facebook, he has a lot of photos of him with friends (both males and females) doing normal social activities like road trips, bars, parties, wedding receptions, bachelor parties, drinks with his workmates, gig shows, etc etc. But, despite all that, he can't seem to find a girlfriend, even though he really wants one.

Me, I had a few friends come and go in the past but I never did things like get invited out with a group to bars and parties and stuff, yet I've been on several dates in my life and it was me who dumped them because I didn't fancy them. I met my boyfriend 8 years ago - which was easy, plus I made the first move and I recognised all the signs that he liked me back. Easy-peasy.


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16 Jun 2022, 3:15 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Girls, however, are much more complicated, and it's more common in autistic girls to desire friendships than it is for autistic boys.


That doesn't imply that boys are less likely to lack friends. It simply means that they are less likely to feel loneliness as a result.



IsabellaLinton
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16 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm

I've never wanted friends in real life.
It's too much work and I prefer to be alone.
As a child I spent most of my time with my brother or dad.

Now I'm most comfortable with men, or people who are gender neutral.

I've had some female friends irl, but I always felt uncomfortable with them.
Those relationships tend to implode because I have no interest in their interests.

Online I'm mostly friends with men / NB, but I get along with some autistic women.

Do I think it's true?
What I notice is that most men on here say they prefer friendships with women.
Most women on here prefer friendships with men.
That's true of our online friendships but also in real life, as far as I can tell.



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16 Jun 2022, 3:25 pm

klanka wrote:
If women with autism find it difficult to find female friends, and men with autism find it difficult to find female 'friends'.

Then going to the logical conclusion, women must really like to be around people who show signs of autism


Anyone care to guess why autism symptoms are so popular among women? Anyone experienced jealousy from NT's because of this?


I agree with this! Here is something else I found: more than 50% of women prefer female friends to their husbands: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/new ... %20married.

In other words:

--- Men prefer to spend time with women rather than men

--- Women prefer to spend time with women rather than men

Therefore

--- Everyone prefers to spend time with women rather than men

And then whatever everyone prefers, that is precisely what is being taken away from aspies. Thus aspies, of both genders, are confined to men. Thus

--- Male aspies being confined to male company can have friends but not dates

--- Female aspies being confined to male company can have dates but not friends

And both groups are deprived of their main preference:

--- Male aspies would rather have dates yet they are given friends

--- Female aspies would rather have friends yet they are given dates



kraftiekortie
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16 Jun 2022, 3:27 pm

Hey Joe,

There's a very good reason why you're not bitchy to people----it's because you're not a bitchy person. That's the "some reason."

I used to have people be bitchy to me all the time----both boys and girls. But I never thought "for some reason, I don't be bitchy with people." I always knew the reason.

I had great difficulty making friends in high school----DESPITE the fact that I happened to like sports.....



Joe90
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16 Jun 2022, 3:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Hey Joe,

There's a very good reason why you're not bitchy to people----it's because you're not a bitchy person. That's the "some reason."

I used to have people be bitchy to me all the time----both boys and girls. But I never thought "for some reason, I don't be bitchy with people." I always knew the reason.

I had great difficulty making friends in high school----DESPITE the fact that I happened to like sports.....

What I meant was that I didn't act bitchy to mask my insecurities. I had insecurities, and I still do now, but I still don't take them out on other people.


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I've never wanted friends in real life.
It's too much work and I prefer to be alone

I actually found it was too much work NOT to have friends when I was in school. I had to think and learn by myself, and was often the last to know gossip and stuff. I needed friends to talk to, to share things with, to help me get through school life. Instead, I had to do everything on my own and it made it so much more harder. Plus being on your own lot attracted bullies.


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IsabellaLinton
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16 Jun 2022, 4:04 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I actually found it was too much work NOT to have friends when I was in school. I had to think and learn by myself, and was often the last to know gossip and stuff. I needed friends to talk to, to share things with, to help me get through school life. Instead, I had to do everything on my own and it made it so much more harder. Plus being on your own lot attracted bullies.


In an ideal world I would have wanted friends, but I'd learned from experience that I couldn't keep up with girls my age, or guys for that matter. I had to settle for being alone so I didn't hurt myself or anyone else.

I had a best friend when I was 13-14 but it ended because I wasn't social enough. It's sad because I still have the handwritten letters from my friend saying that she wanted to help me and she really cared about me, but she could tell I wasn't comfortable and no matter what it likely wouldn't help me.

I feel so sad when I read that because I think she knew I was different and she understood. She wanted to bridge the gap but it was overwhelming for me to hang out with her. I wasn't on the same trajectory.



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16 Jun 2022, 4:14 pm

Joe90 wrote:
and was often the last to know gossip and stuff.


That shows all the more of how much I am lacking. Because I am worried about people not saying hello to me or making small talk. I never had such a luxury of actually hearing the gossip. I thought that gossip is reserved only for lucky ones. Apparently I was wrong. Apparently it is being heard by every single person (since you were the "last one" to receive it).

So what am I to make of the fact that I haven't heard any piece of gossip? No wonder each time I have a conversation I keep asking "what do people say about me when I am not around". Maybe if I had access to the gossip (which everyone else does except for me) I wouldn't have to ask that question.

I can only remember *two* instances of hearing about gossip:

1) Back when I was in the 7-th grade, kids were making fun of some girl who ate every lunch because she had stomach problems. Interestingly enough, I heard this particular piece of gossip from a different girl that was bullying me. So, for once, my bully was the one that shared a gossip with me about someone else, which is a type of a compliment. I heard that same gossip from at least one other person (also my bully) and probably a couple of others

2) Few years ago, in my current school, I heard a gossip about a certain professor (who used to be my thesis advisor) being overly strict, overly rude, etc. I heard this from at least two people I can name, and a couple of others I don't remember. And no, they aren't my bullies. All my bullying ended by the time I reached 17; my current problem is ostracism.

Well, I won't swear by the fact that those are the only two instances. Maybe if I sit down and think super carefully I might eventually recall a couple of others (but possibly not). Still fact remains: I lived 42 years yet I can count on my fingers all the gossips I heard in my entire lifetime.

Now the question is: is it because I am a guy and the gossip is a girl thing, or do guys hear gossip too, and I don't hear it because I am ostracized?



hurtloam
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16 Jun 2022, 10:27 pm

It's not because you're a guy, I never know what's going on. I always feel like I'm on the outside looking in.



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17 Jun 2022, 6:34 am

QFT wrote:
klanka wrote:
If women with autism find it difficult to find female friends, and men with autism find it difficult to find female 'friends'.

Then going to the logical conclusion, women must really like to be around people who show signs of autism


Anyone care to guess why autism symptoms are so popular among women? Anyone experienced jealousy from NT's because of this?


I agree with this! Here is something else I found: more than 50% of women prefer female friends to their husbands: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/new ... %20married.

In other words:

--- Men prefer to spend time with women rather than men

--- Women prefer to spend time with women rather than men

Therefore

--- Everyone prefers to spend time with women rather than men

And then whatever everyone prefers, that is precisely what is being taken away from aspies. Thus aspies, of both genders, are confined to men. Thus

--- Male aspies being confined to male company can have friends but not dates

--- Female aspies being confined to male company can have dates but not friends

And both groups are deprived of their main preference:

--- Male aspies would rather have dates yet they are given friends

--- Female aspies would rather have friends yet they are given dates

This makes sense.

So, going further, does that mean that men are generally more accepting of different/odd people than women are? And women are generally more social hierarchy-conscious and avoid being associated with "inferior" people?



hurtloam
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17 Jun 2022, 7:55 am

Confirmation bias in my life says this is not true:

Quote:
Female aspies being confined to male company can have dates but not friends
...
Female aspies would rather have friends yet they are given dates


I was always one of the guys and never got asked on actual dates. Then I got dropped like a hot potato when they found someone more feminine to be a girlfriend.



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17 Jun 2022, 8:18 am

hurtloam wrote:
It's not because you're a guy, I never know what's going on. I always feel like I'm on the outside looking in.


I'm stealing that quote.



Joe90
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17 Jun 2022, 8:42 am

Quote:
So, going further, does that mean that men are generally more accepting of different/odd people than women are? And women are generally more social hierarchy-conscious and avoid being associated with "inferior" people?


Probably, except not for everyone but it is likely this is common in people.

I read somewhere that NT men have less recognition (not impaired) of non-verbal social cues than NT women. So NT women are more likely to notice something is off about another man or woman no matter how brilliant they are at hiding it. NT women seem to have superpowers.


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17 Jun 2022, 11:09 am

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
So, going further, does that mean that men are generally more accepting of different/odd people than women are? And women are generally more social hierarchy-conscious and avoid being associated with "inferior" people?


Probably, except not for everyone but it is likely this is common in people.

I read somewhere that NT men have less recognition (not impaired) of non-verbal social cues than NT women. So NT women are more likely to notice something is off about another man or woman no matter how brilliant they are at hiding it. NT women seem to have superpowers.


Its interesting that you put it this way. Because I always felt that the problem with NT-s is that they "misunderstand me" and if only NT-s were a bit smarter so they could "understand me properly" I would be better accepted.

But what you are saying is the opposite. That they understand me jsut fine, know I am weird, and reject me accordingly. I need to be "misunderstood" in order to be "misperceived" as normal to be accepted.

It reminds me of something else. I remember, back in 2009, I had an interview that involved week-long visit to the institute. I didn't know how to approach people, and failed the interview. My then-girlfriend said that part of the reason the professor that invited me didn't help is that he was a man. If it was a woman she would have known I was shy and would have helped. I then was wondering: if woman would have helped in this situation, why don't women help me in other situations?

So could it be that the problem is that in other situations women "don't want" to help. Which goes back to what you were saying. That its not that women misunderstand me but rather they understand me perfectly but their "intention" is to isolate people like me. So people who understand me -- women -- would help me in a job interview but isolate me socially, on the other hand people who are clueless -- men -- wouldn't be that helpful in job interview but won't be isolating me socially either? Is that what you are saying?