You basically have to drink alcohol to be a normal adult

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techstepgenr8tion
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06 Jul 2022, 9:58 am

UncannyDanny wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
UncannyDanny wrote:
So let me get this straight: those who chose to be a 'teetotaler', or be alcohol-free, for personal reasons as an adult are 'immature', while those who end up doing crazy things and not thinking clearly due to being high/drunk is not 'immature'?

I wouldn't call it mature vs. immature, it's the 'bucket of crabs' being particularly big.

However do you mean? :|

However do I mean what?


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06 Jul 2022, 10:02 am

"'bucket of crabs' being particularly big."



techstepgenr8tion
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06 Jul 2022, 10:09 am

UncannyDanny wrote:
"'bucket of crabs' being particularly big."

A lot of local cultures have engrained rules of social conformity, and those rules dictate whether someone's 'okay' or whether they're 'weird'. Brits have a useful term for this as well, ie. tall poppy syndrome, ie. where the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. I don't think individual people ever decide on these rules, it's more like whatever they happen to be where you're at you're stuck dealing with the consequence of them - or moving somewhere else if they're particularly a bad match for you. In a lot of cases not being into drinking or not being into sports often signal to people in that group that something's 'wrong' with the person whose not into those things. The OP is in an area where that cultural norm is drinking.

These norms are prescriptive and implied proscriptive behavioral codes for people who either wouldn't or couldn't figure out their own codes of conduct in any sensible manner and since they can't they figure no one else can and they expand that judgment onto anyone whose not 'just like them'.


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06 Jul 2022, 10:22 am

UncannyDanny wrote:
"'bucket of crabs' being particularly big."
I call it the "Lobster Pot Syndrome".  A bunch of lobsters placed in a large pot or tub will remain calm until one of them tries to escape, at which time the nearest of the lobsters will try to pull the escaping lobster back in.

I have seen this in some rural and urban communities -- everybody goes quietly about their activities until one of them starts to make efforts to improve themselves and leave the community; then the others seem to do whatever they can to either discourage the individual or hinder the individual's efforts.  Certainly, the majority will do little (if anything) to encourage the individual or support the individual's efforts.



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06 Jul 2022, 10:27 am

Maybe it's a cultural difference? Where I live, there are lots of people who choose not to drink and they are seen as normal and wise people. You certainly don't need to drink to socialize. Probably only groups of uneducated losers would put that sort of unnecessary peer pressure on one another.

I do drink but only when alone at home. Drinking is enjoyable only when there's no one around. I never drink when I'm out. No point.



Fnord
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06 Jul 2022, 10:31 am

People seem to take it as an insult if I refuse to drink alcohol with them.

I am no prude, but I just do not feel comfortable with the idea of getting "hammered".



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06 Jul 2022, 11:24 am

Fnord wrote:
People seem to take it as an insult if I refuse to drink alcohol with them.

I am no prude, but I just do not feel comfortable with the idea of getting "hammered".

You're 65 years old. Getting hammered at your age is very ill advised even if it could be tolerated 30 years ago. I'm almost 70 so I get to say this BTW.


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06 Jul 2022, 11:46 am

I can't even imagine having to drink to do any of the things I've done. The things I'm into, tend not to involve drinking anyway, so there have always been a number of actual teetotallers in my social world. I had a friend go through a period of wondering if they were an alcoholic, and she realized that she would have to completely re-invent herself socially in order to stop drinking. This is actually kind of foreign to me, because most of the people I'm around are either some kind of drink snob (into artisinal booze, and beer brewing is a special interest to one of my friends) or they just don't drink, and pubs/bars/clubs are just not really a place I hang out.

It is interesting to me how many people in mainstream culture just can't socially function if alcohol is not present. Tried to plan a dry wedding and discovered that dry weddings were actually semi controversial, and when I saw some of the discourse around it, I realized that social anxiety - especially around big, long, socially obligatory events - is actually really common among allistics.

That said, I am a somewhat heavy weed user.


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techstepgenr8tion
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06 Jul 2022, 11:58 am

orbweaver wrote:
It is interesting to me how many people in mainstream culture just can't socially function if alcohol is not present. Tried to plan a dry wedding and discovered that dry weddings were actually semi controversial, and when I saw some of the discourse around it, I realized that social anxiety - especially around big, long, socially obligatory events - is actually really common among allistics.

I'm starting to wonder if non-alcoholic spirits will ever really catch on, not just the pseudo-gin and pseudo-tequila stuff but the stuff that's psychoactive in other ways. I bought a sample of the Three Spirits elixirs a month ago because I was curious to see what it was about, the Night Cap actually did something interesting the first time I took it, the others not as much. I figure at least if they find a way to pull the alcohol out of social beverages and replace it with other options that might be a good way to break up what 'drinking' means. Heavy drinking events to me almost feel like a circle of people passing nitrous oxide around - all the slurring, blunting, etc..


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06 Jul 2022, 12:01 pm

Non-alcoholic spirits suck to high heaven.

I’ll stick to my main vice: diet Coke or Fanta.



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06 Jul 2022, 12:57 pm

MaxE wrote:
Fnord wrote:
People seem to take it as an insult if I refuse to drink alcohol with them.  I am no prude, but I just do not feel comfortable with the idea of getting "hammered".
You're 65 years old. Getting hammered at your age is very ill advised even if it could be tolerated 30 years ago. I'm almost 70 so I get to say this BTW.
When a 65-year old man can get the same sensation from a rocking chair as he used to get at 25 from doing a dozen Jell-O shots, it is time to put away the beer-trumpet.

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06 Jul 2022, 1:39 pm

I don't drink alcohol. I wouldn't consider myself "normal" though.


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06 Jul 2022, 2:08 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I remember a few Christmases ago I went to my aunt's for a family dinner, and my cousin, then 21, came round too. His friend lived near my aunt, so my cousin texted him and asked if he wanted to meet him. Being so it was Christmas day, all the local pubs and bars were closed, so my family were like "where are you going to go?" in a voice which meant "you're too old to loiter about in the streets like a teenager". So my cousin was like, "oh, we'll go to his house", and my family asked "to do what?" and he said "well we'll just have a few drinks..." and everyone was like "OK, that's cool."

It's like as adults, particularly men, you're "too old" to do things that don't involve drinking alcohol (unless you're driving or going to work of course, then all of a sudden it's immature if you do those things under the influence).

Also I remember one time a girl we knew who was 18 at the time, was loitering on a street corner with a group of friends, and the person I was with criticised her to me, said "isn't she a bit old to be loitering about like that?" So I replied, "what else is there to do?" and she said, "well she's old enough to go to the pub." I said "what if she doesn't want to go to the pub?" so then she said "it's just the done thing."

So basically if you're age 18 or over the only mature thing to do is to sit around in bars or at someone's house drinking alcohol. Women don't have to drink alcohol, as it's OK to drink tea, but men between about the ages of 18-30 must drink beers or other alcohol when they're hanging out with their friends.

So, basically, alcohol is the be all and end all in some cultures. Then again, drinking alcohol becomes immature if you don't drink it responsibly. Ahh, the rules are so precise!


Well, here in the states, social rules for gender

1. I have seen males get together and drink together while women were not allowed - just like the old clubhouse rule," No girls allowed."
A. At an old job, all of the males would get together and drink beer in the parking lot after work while the women were not allowed to join.
B. I went to a funeral of one of their kids and during the reception after I moved on. At the reception, two of my male co-workers told me that they were kicking all of the women out of the basement so they could have a few beers together as a part of their tradition.

2. When I was 21, I lived with two roommates who were heavy drinkers and I didn't have a clue about drinking
A. I moved in when I was 20 but I was not allowed to attend until I was was 21.
B. One of my roommates threw a Mardi Gras party which is drinking central so I got drunk only to be told I was being too embarrassing. My roommate was mad at me afterwards to the point that she was mean to me afterwards.



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06 Jul 2022, 5:37 pm

Sometimes I am struck by the fact that I have somehow managed to grow up in some kind of a weird social bubble, and all my life have managed to move in this same social bubble wherever I go.

This is one of those times.

When people talk to me about gendered rules for drinking (because apparently, this exists) I am struck by how little I know about what "normal people" do. And when they talk about how boozy the mainstream world apparently is, and somehow, I never noticed.

I only barely drink (occasionally I'll order a glass of something that pairs well with my food at a nice restaurant, it is part of the experience for me.) My partner won't touch the stuff and never has (from an alcoholic family). It always seems like every social space I'm in, has people who are avoiding alcohol, and on the whole, other people don't care or make a big deal out of it.

Somehow, I *always* been in some liminal zone where I only really know people like me, have stayed in this bubble, and have managed not to notice what is going on outside of it.

Curious.


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06 Jul 2022, 5:53 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
1. I have seen males get together and drink together while women were not allowed - just like the old clubhouse rule," No girls allowed."
A. At an old job, all of the males would get together and drink beer in the parking lot after work while the women were not allowed to join.
B. I went to a funeral of one of their kids and during the reception after I moved on. At the reception, two of my male co-workers told me that they were kicking all of the women out of the basement so they could have a few beers together as a part of their tradition.

I feel I must apologize for this, but I have always lived in the US and don't recall ever experiencing this behavior. Yes men typically drink more than women but I can't recall a drinking event at which women were expressly excluded. Maybe it's because I don't do male bonding. Maybe it's cultural as blue collar vs. white collar, or in fact regional as in it's a Southern thing, like in the South it would seem mandatory for a man to include photos of himself with animals he has killed on hunting expeditions as part of his profile on a dating app (which I learned by watching LOTS/US).

I've also never experienced drinking in connection with a funeral if that tells you anything.

Please just believe me this is not so widespread a practice as all that. In fact, I would say that men who like to drink enjoy drinking with women who also like to drink.


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06 Jul 2022, 6:48 pm

Where I come from everybody seems to drink, even Aspies. So it's no wonder I feel like an alien sometimes. I just don't see the thrill. It seems that most (non-religious) NTs love drunkness and find it amusing, like toddlers watching a Teletubbies show. I find it stupid. I also find it ironic that NTs judge people that don't follow social rules and are afraid of them, yet they value being drunk, which makes you break social rules and act different and unpredictable and weird. Isn't that the opposite of what NTs want people to be?


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