Confronting people and thus losing them as friends

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DazyDaisy
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02 Feb 2024, 3:44 am

I wonder if this would be an autistic trait.

As somone who just recently realized to be somewhere on autistic spectrum I can say that it is not that hard for me to make friends, but I find incredibly hard to keep friends. Here's why. As soon as I realize a friend tries to manipulate me, lie to me, makes subtle or obvious insults, makes fun of me and my choices, belittles me - I confront them immidiately by asking them directly and openly why they do that!?! And it ends up each time with THEM being terribly offended and/or in denial and accusing me of being too sensitive or even paranoid.

The other thing I noticed among NTs they tend to be frenemies even if they call each other best friends. They never confront each other, but they put down each other instead with an "innocent" smile. It seems like they are in an everlasting competition..and that they have that other person simply as a mirror so they can size how much they are doing good in life. I will never understand this. I get sick of people who can't at least control their urges to be malicious, even those that most people consider to be the small or unimportant ones. I expect my friends to be honest, careing, supportive and loyal but it seems I expect too much. On the other side I can't stand anything that is like in a description above, so I cut such "frindships" easilly and would rather choose to be alone.

I guess NTs have many friends because they simply tolerate other people being nasty or because they value too much some intersts they have from them..


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belijojo
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02 Feb 2024, 4:45 am

i always do like this


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DazyDaisy
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02 Feb 2024, 6:14 am

belijojo wrote:
i always do like this



Than I guess that's what it means having poor social skills - telling truth and naming elephant in the room, seeing and acknowledging that emperor is naked.


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shortfatbalduglyman
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02 Feb 2024, 10:32 am

I have difficulty making and keeping friends

Usually when a "friend" does something I don't like I just ignore it because I am afraid if I "confront", they will not be my "friend" anymore. (Monopolistic competition). They have plenty of friends and I have one or zero.

Meanwhile those annoying lil dipshits act like any action or statement I make that they don't like is "disrespectful".

Not an even playing field

Double standards

Gave up trying to make "friends" a longfuck time ago

Nobody is perfect

There is nothing awesome about me

However I think most precious lil "people" are a less important and awesome, than they act like they are

Misanthropic



Summer_Twilight
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02 Feb 2024, 11:15 am

Hi DazyDaisy:

First of all, anyone who manipulates you and can't respect you or your boundaries is not a friend. They aren't ditching you because you are autistic. Rather, they keep leaving because you aren't letting them continue to take advantage of you. Manipulators are also controllers and if they can't control you, then they want nothing to do with you.



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02 Feb 2024, 11:45 am

This happens to me also, a lot.
Once I was labelled as abusive for simply pointing out how a relationship was financially imbalanced... but I let that one go on too long.

Quote:
I guess NTs have many friends because they simply tolerate other people being nasty or because they value too much some interests they have from them..


I don't know.. I suppose there are a lot of people like this, maybe you are right.

It depends a lot on culture. It can also be that an NT will communicate and "manage" their way around these manipulations because they can see them easily, they know what's going on.

Maybe it's a bit like a group of people in Tanks, or a group in scooters. The scooter people are driving along, but the road is wide for them, so they can position themselves in lots of ways relative to one another, move around obstacles fast, they can even dodge around each other, and hi-five each other while driving.

But the guys in the tanks can only be positioned one after the other, or side by side. Sometimes the tank people drive over the scooter people without even noticing. Tank people can go for longer through rougher terrain, blow s**t up, make new roads, but they need to carefully manage their technically advanced inner workings, and it's hard to hear through the thick tank walls.

Maybe you need to take your tank out of the Starbucks in a cramped italian town and drive it to the front.



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02 Feb 2024, 11:56 am

Knowing what is going on is key.

An NT will be able to tell a bluff by comparing their mental model of the other person with what they say and do.
THen they can call them out confidently and firmly, and the other person gets a sense for the boundaries.

An ND person will have a lot more difficulty modelling an NT because they need to learn a whole new way of thinking.
Therefore they will often not notice if they have been gaslit and set up a pattern of exploitative behaviour.
When they eventually notice the NT gets upset because their free ride is over. Further, the NT correctly guesses that an ND person can be easily gaslit into shutting up, and they need the friendship more.

Society is full of ableist bigots.



DazyDaisy
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04 Feb 2024, 2:55 am

Thank you all for you answers. I see that we have both similar and different coping mechanisms regarding this.

@shortfatuglyman, there's nothing awesome about me neither, I'm full of flaws (except that I know that I would never intensionally hurt someone, especially not first), but you shouldn't tolerate hurtful things for the sole reason they have plenty of friends and you have none. But I can also understand you, I used to be like that when I was young.

As for me, even as an (probable) ND person I think I can sense when somebody is going to intensionally hurt me. And it is not WHAT they say, it is WHY would they hurt me or anyone if they are my/yours friends!?! I still tend to ignore such things in the very begging of the relationship, but if person keeps repeating it - I react and I would give a million dollars if I could do it in a calm and assertive and confident way, but I'm usually so overwhelmed with feelings that I simply can not! I mean, I don't yell at people but it is obvious that I'm upset.

And, no, I don't think that all NT people are nasty and incapable to be true friends, but most of them (to my mind) are too much driven by success and materialism that lead them to competitiveness even in their personal relationships, constantly comparing themselves with others/you and making sure they are doing better than you and being ahead of you. I'm talking about common jealousy, but it seems that common jealousy is well tolerated among NT's, they do that to each other without much fuss, while for me it is unceptable if we are friends.

And even if I manage to let someone know what hurts me, in a calm way and in an attempt to build better and more honest relationship, most people will actually be embarrassed for being exposed and be in denial blaming you for being too sensitive or even paranoid. The same as you _eliahahahaho, for being blamed as abusive for pointing out what was rightfully upsetting you.

I am also ditching people because of all of this thinking that is always better to be alone than having fake friends, but maybe I'm unrealistically demanding ,I don't know and I wonder if all of this sounds familiar to you. At least that's the reason why I am alone, very often with no friends at all, not a single one.


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autisticelders
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04 Feb 2024, 8:10 am

you might want to check out "rejection sensitive dysphoria" .
It is an adapted behavior due to trauma.

we become suspicious and angry over any comment and intensely hunt out behavior or words that might threaten our feelings because we are defending ourselves from emotional traumas of the past.

Perhaps some of the things you see as insults, putdown, etc are indeed mistaken, and friends saying you misunderstand, and deny their actions/words/ etc were intended to hurt, could be the truth.

It is something that can be helped. I had a great counselor/therapist who pointed out my unhealthy thinking patterns and helped me find mental health and emotional healing. It is something to think about if you find you are in constant and intense emotional pain most of the time.


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DazyDaisy
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05 Feb 2024, 5:34 am

autisticelders wrote:
you might want to check out "rejection sensitive dysphoria" .
It is an adapted behavior due to trauma.



Thanks a lot for your suggestion about what could it be all about, I am definitely going to research that subject and see if I fit in. You may be right. And it is great if there is a help, I'm happy it worked for you and that you managed at all to find it was a cause that were bothering you, some people never find root cause for their trauma and healing is only possible when you are aware of root causes. I hope you are doing better in life.


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DazyDaisy
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05 Feb 2024, 5:38 am

@autisticelders, I am also happy to find your blog, gonna read it, sounds interesting !


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05 Feb 2024, 3:44 pm

These frenemies are probably also getting defensive because they know they are wrong and don't want to admit it. As for them leaving you, it's also most likely that they probably have the need to be right. Most people who think like that are going to get defensive because it's a pride issue for them.



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05 Feb 2024, 4:13 pm

DazyDaisy wrote:
I guess NTs have many friends because they simply tolerate other people being nasty or because they value too much some intersts they have from them..


I have no friends now but having long term friends in my 20s and 30s gave me a buzz that had nothing to do with common interests or transactions. That buzz is the anticipation of conviviality, joviality and comfort of being around people who know you and you know them.

I think one aspect (it may not be the only one) is that people on the spectrum tend to be (more than average) more self-absorbed. One thing NTs do not value is people who lack empathy for others which they perceive (perhaps inaccurately) as self-centeredness or selfishness.



DazyDaisy
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05 Feb 2024, 8:11 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
These frenemies are probably also getting defensive because they know they are wrong and don't want to admit it. As for them leaving you, it's also most likely that they probably have the need to be right. Most people who think like that are going to get defensive because it's a pride issue for them.


Thank you, that was my point, too. And, once I decide to confront someone it means that I am ready either to make that relationship better ( which is my first goal) or to split up with that person, it all depends on their reaction. So, the splitting up is mutual.

The reason I am confronting people is that I don't want our relationship to go in wrong direction. Most people unconciously are role playing, they ususally reflect their own traumas and inherited family patterns and roles. And they are repeating them in their own struggle to find friends and partners. Unfortunately, and first of all, I don't really think that there are such a thing as NT's or if there are I don't think that automatically means they are normal and healthy, only their nervous system is much better tolerating sado-masochism, they can be for decades in it. I can't, not even for a day. I used to tolerate it much better when I was young.

I don't want to be nobody's troublled mama they have unsolved issues with. No role playing, no mind games, no controling or dominireeing, only honesty and being your trueself, being vulnerable. I think that is the only way people can be true friends or love partners. No pretendings. It's exausting.

But. Maybe that means also that I don't have ( anymore, I used to have) sufficient love to just love people no matter how they are, no matter how much they try to hurt you or humiliate you. Only hurt people hurt. So, stil looking in my mid fifties how to work on myself to better understand both myself and other people.


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DazyDaisy
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05 Feb 2024, 8:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
DazyDaisy wrote:
I guess NTs have many friends because they simply tolerate other people being nasty or because they value too much some intersts they have from them..


I have no friends now but having long term friends in my 20s and 30s gave me a buzz that had nothing to do with common interests or transactions. That buzz is the anticipation of conviviality, joviality and comfort of being around people who know you and you know them.

I think one aspect (it may not be the only one) is that people on the spectrum tend to be (more than average) more self-absorbed. One thing NTs do not value is people who lack empathy for others which they perceive (perhaps inaccurately) as self-centeredness or selfishness.



Thank you for your insights, I agree with you. I used to have long term friendships, but most of them ended up in my mid thirties. Once I didn't feel comfortable (at all) around them I decided to end them.

As for me, I am struggling with excessive empathy. And if we ( people) in spectrum like more to spend time reading books, pursuing our interests more than killing time with buzzing around and engaging in small talks with many people it doesn't mean we are selfish. I was always true and supportive friend, yet it was never enough or apreciated. I am telling you, it was always about some stupid competiveness from their side or about not having any interest from me. Or about jealousy. In the end you realize those people don't love you, can't love you and that you don't have anything to do there anymore. You are with them, but you are, not alone , but lonely. I feel less lonely when I'm alone.


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Esme
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10 Feb 2024, 11:35 am

"As soon as I realize a friend tries to manipulate me, lie to me, makes subtle or obvious insults, makes fun of me and my choices, belittles me..." - Those aren't friends.