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Zyborg
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23 Mar 2009, 7:09 pm

I am very good to press my willpower upon others. I am quite tall, but very slender. So I look slightly down on everyone. While I am standing, I have some form of grace. When I walk, I tend to give a lumbering impression. My hip has also strange shape, almost like I am intersex person. I have thing shoulders but broad hips, and that affects my walk.

I have also very high-pitched voice, and staring eyes. People often become frightened of me, and don't dare to question me in face-to-face verbal duels, due to my voice and my staring eyes. I recognised that, so I emphasised those character traits as defense mechanism. I have also practised in mirror since year 2000.

This guy in movieclip below reminds of me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7VMilzvIV4[/youtube]

When I get really dangerous though, is when I am smiling. That is warning sign. That means I am ready to think about making physical assault. I relax my face and smile before I get angry.



Whitewave
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24 Mar 2009, 10:46 am

And I've been shunned for saying that sometimes Aspies can be dangerous.
:roll:
Sometimes AS creates a complete lack of conscience of how not okay certain behavior is. And worse, it creates a corresponding inappropriate defensiveness when this person suffers consequences of this not okay behavior.

The appropriateness of consequences for this may be a complete enigma (unanswerable question) to you, but rest assured: they will be appropriate and they will come.

I hope you can find a way to learn better before it's too late.


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Zyborg
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24 Mar 2009, 3:56 pm

Whitewave wrote:
And I've been shunned for saying that sometimes Aspies can be dangerous.
:roll:
Sometimes AS creates a complete lack of conscience of how not okay certain behavior is. And worse, it creates a corresponding inappropriate defensiveness when this person suffers consequences of this not okay behavior.

The appropriateness of consequences for this may be a complete enigma (unanswerable question) to you, but rest assured: they will be appropriate and they will come.

I hope you can find a way to learn better before it's too late.


In what way am I dangerous?

I do not do irrational things. I have never broken law, I have never planned to do illegal thing.



Whitewave
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24 Mar 2009, 5:36 pm

In this way, for starters:

"When I get really dangerous though, is when I am smiling. That is warning sign. That means I am ready to think about making physical assault. I relax my face and smile before I get angry."

Memorizing laws and rules and understanding only their obvious meanings does not prevent you from being dangerous. The big picture tells me - and the entire world who cares to read your post - that you are quite capable of violence and do in fact practice overpowering the free-will and choices of others. It's all there in black and blue or green, whichever color your post was in. It's only a matter of time before you force your will on someone else and they figure out a way to bring you to court over it. Even just talking about this, even in jest, can and eventually will be considered a threat and you can and will be in trouble.

You are not isolated in this basic misunderstanding. Both of the Aspies in my life have violated my personal space and safety to the point where if I wanted to have them put in jail, I most certainly could have done so. I've let them both know that they need to work on their behavior patterns before this gets out of hand and they piss off the wrong people.

Brute force and deception are both means of taking something that doesn't belong to you or that wasn't freely given. This behavior belongs to a very low level of development that people are supposed to grow out of before they reach adult stature. Since you have not entirely grown out of it, and you are of adult stature, you can and would be charged as an adult in most legal systems if you followed through with these impulses that seem "rational" and okay to you.

Most Western Cultures are intolerant of the behavior which I've seen you encourage in several of your posts. Western Culture is much older than you and has learned the hard way that intimidation does not actually keep the peace or protect the innocent. If security is important for you, then it is important for you to learn how to leverage the System that we have in place for doing those things, and not resort to behavior which Civilization has rightly left behind long ago. In cases where the current System is inadequate (as I know it is!), then it is even more urgently up to us citizens to find a newer and better way. I know both of my Aspie friends are grateful that I have tried to do so in their case.


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Zyborg
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24 Mar 2009, 5:48 pm

You talk like I act like ignorant person. I do not violate other's space, except when they are trying to violate mine. Or in political matters. I am not acting out because of personal reasons.

Besides, I am not western person. I am born and raised in western country. But my background is Eastern European.



Whitewave
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24 Mar 2009, 6:04 pm

So, your first deflection is now ignored since I countered it successfully?

The more informed and "civilized" you claim to be, the more responsibility you will be required to bear for your actions.

No doubt you are cunning. But also somewhat naive. Parts of Eastern Europe may be like what we here have referred to as the "Wild-Wild West" right now, but don't expect that to last too long and don't venture too far out of your little bubble. They still have to trade with the rest of the world, and primitive political tactics are being phased out.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the law of the jungle that you're apparently used to living in over there, is not okay in the long run and with the majority. There are better ways of getting things done and those better ways will take over the Systems of govt and Social interaction eventually. Why not learn now?

Or do what you want. But don't whine when the consequences hit you.


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Zyborg
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24 Mar 2009, 6:17 pm

Here is funny video which shows Zhirinovsky (Russian presidential candidate and once speaker of Parliament) become upset over Nemtsov.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbifHevHekE[/youtube]

He became more popular because of this.

I grew up in immigrant ghetto in western country. I had to learn to be defensive to survive.



Stinkypuppy
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24 Mar 2009, 7:11 pm

Not that I agree with Zyborg's respect-by-intimidation methods, but I really have to disagree with the use of a "civilized" Western culture as a basis of an argument against Zyborg. One, it assumes that Western culture is this problem-free institution that doesn't use intimidation or other outright suppressive techniques (Gitmo/Abu Ghraib anyone??), and two it totally paints Eastern culture as some kind of amoral lawless mess with no redeeming qualities, and that's a very gross inaccurate simplification.

Back to main point of the thread... I personally prefer "killing people with kindness" myself. Honestly Zyborg, I don't know why you care so much how people perceive you, to the extent that you would wilfully try to intimidate them. How come you don't direct more of that energy towards protecting your brother, instead of protecting yourself? That's what I would do... I personally don't care if people treat me like sh!t, so long as people don't mess with my family.


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Whitewave
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24 Mar 2009, 8:09 pm

Sorry, Stinkypuppy, but I disagree partly.

You're assuming I'm making an assumption that I'm not. I'm not talking about the US. Nor am I talking about any one Nation specifically. I'm talking about Evolution. Spiral Dynamics - EnlighteNext Some parts of Western Europe are far ahead of the US in this regard, but that is still considered "Western Civilization."

I completely understand why Zyborg feels the way he does since he explained it for us. The pre-conscious nervous system runs the survival show, not our cognitive grey matter. And if it decides that the world is a dangerous place, it will mirror that back out there by learning to be dangerous. But it will also hijack the senses so that they only perceive danger. It may be too difficult to see goodness and trustworthiness and cooperation out there. At the least, he probably shouldn't be giving advice to people who don't live in his "world" so to speak, and will need to at least come to grips with the fact that places do exist where people don't need to resort to skills and tactics that seem necessary to him.

One thing you said, tho, is quite true. It would be a step up to use aggression to defend something greater than himself. But, perhaps he was just using self-defense as an example of the most legally excusable kind of aggression.

Even tho I can't understand one "spoken" word of that video, I can read the word "PLAYBOY" and I do understand the universal language of two people trading offensive gestures and having a 3rd person hold each of them off. Just that alone is funny. Steven Colbert would approve. I wish I could understand the language.

Lord knows there are things worth fighting for. But that is a last resort. There are so many more possibilities when aggression is not present. Just it's presence necessarily pushes away many wonderful means of living and working in the world. The presence of this thread is damaging to the field of trust that floats in-between people. But I don't know if you understand what I mean by that.


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elderwanda
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24 Mar 2009, 8:59 pm

Now that you've mastered the whole "scary" demeanor, why not go for something different now. Like lovable? Or playful? Or intellectual?

See, from what you say, it sounds like people have reacted to you a certain way based on how you look, and it's created a cycle. They act scared, so you give them "scary".

But maybe "scary" isn't the real you. Maybe it is; I don't know. But is that how you want people to think of you? IMO, Eastern Europeans tend to have rather striking eyes, which is something you describe about yourself. That doesn't have to be scary. It can be beautiful and alluring, actually. Or thoughtful and fascinating. Or anything else. It depends on what you are practicing in the mirror, I suppose.

What I'm saying is just because people seem frightened of you sometimes, doesn't mean that you are obligated to make that your identity.

Just a few thoughts :)



Stinkypuppy
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24 Mar 2009, 10:00 pm

Whitewave wrote:
You're assuming I'm making an assumption that I'm not. I'm not talking about the US. Nor am I talking about any one Nation specifically. I'm talking about Evolution. Spiral Dynamics - EnlighteNext Some parts of Western Europe are far ahead of the US in this regard, but that is still considered "Western Civilization."

I clicked on the link to try to get more info but to read any of the articles I'd have to supply an e-mail address... anyway, yeah I did assume that you are making a knock on Eastern cultures, because you mentioned "Western cultures" specifically. You could've just said culture to make your point.

Whitewave wrote:
At the least, he probably shouldn't be giving advice to people who don't live in his "world" so to speak, and will need to at least come to grips with the fact that places do exist where people don't need to resort to skills and tactics that seem necessary to him.

We all come to WP to provide insight based on our own personal experiences. To deny Zyborg the privilege of doing that would be a very slippery slope. As long as he is honest and forthcoming about what his background is and why he thinks the way he does, I see no reason to think he shouldn't say anything at all. He may be wrong, he may be right, but issues like this I think should be brought up since the freedom to discuss dissenting opinions at the very least ensures that we don't take any one position on an issue for granted, or else we risk ceasing even to think about the issue. The presence of this thread doesn't damage trust between people; on the contrary, this thread can strengthen trust when people understand better the importance of that trust.

Whitewave wrote:
Lord knows there are things worth fighting for. But that is a last resort. There are so many more possibilities when aggression is not present. Just it's presence necessarily pushes away many wonderful means of living and working in the world. The presence of this thread is damaging to the field of trust that floats in-between people. But I don't know if you understand what I mean by that.

We can do a lot of things without aggression, I agree, but I also see aggression as a potentially creative source if balanced well with nonaggression. Kind of like a forest fire in the Western US: it's highly destructive, destroying nearly everything in its wake, but plant overgrowth is cleared out and it's actually healthier for the ecosystem to allow the forest fire to happen. Decades of forest wildfire suppression had severely weakened national forests in the US until it became policy to allow wildfires to burn unless they threatened human settlements. I think it's healthier for there to be a balance in pretty much everything, AS vs. NT, war vs. peace, aggression vs. nonaggression, balance that has considerable philosophical origins in Eastern beliefs.


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Whitewave
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25 Mar 2009, 5:14 pm

Okay, Stinkypuppy, I think it's time to stop. You're exaggerating my position to make your point and your argument seems more about disallowing me to make my point than learning or teaching something. That tells me we're done with this discussion. Besides, I've succeeded in making my point.

I'm sorry about the link. There are other sources of info about Spiral Dynamics on the web, tho few that have such good graphics. I'm making an educated guess that pictures are good and lots of text is not so good. But here 'goes:

Spiral Dynamics

The criticisms of SD can be resolved if one understands Holons sufficiently.

Holon


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Stinkypuppy
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25 Mar 2009, 6:16 pm

Whitewave wrote:
Okay, Stinkypuppy, I think it's time to stop. You're exaggerating my position to make your point and your argument seems more about disallowing me to make my point than learning or teaching something. That tells me we're done with this discussion. Besides, I've succeeded in making my point.

I'm not exaggerating your position at all, I am providing my analysis of what you're saying. None of what I'm saying is preventing you from trying to make your point. You are providing your point, and I am providing a counterpoint. I don't see anything wrong rhetorically with what I'm doing at all. Rather, you are the one who is descending to ad hominems in your posts in this thread, against me and against Zyborg, and I have not done any such thing. So if anything, you are trying to disallow everyone else from making his or her point, insisting that there must be something wrong with my posts overall if you don't agree with them. The fact that you are saying here that "we're done now, at least I made my point" tells me that you didn't come here to learn, you came here to make points and you're trying to win something that isn't even a competition, and I'm sorry but I don't think that your attitude is conducive at all to proper learning and discourse for both sides.

The one thing I do agree with, is that it's time to stop. It's obvious this discussion is not going to be productive so we shouldn't waste our time any further.


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