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Did Jesus really exist?
Yes 74%  74%  [ 31 ]
No 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 42

ArrantPariah
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01 Feb 2014, 1:35 pm

I came across a really fascinating lecture

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc[/youtube]

where Dr. Richard Carrier offers a very persuasive argument that Jesus never really existed.

Does anyone care to rebut any of his points? Or, to agree with his points?

I'm forcing a Yes/No vote: no agnosticism allowed. Examine the evidence and decide. :shameonyou:

Having watched the lecture, I am now pretty much convinced that Jesus never really existed at all: that he was completely made up.

Any other opinions?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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01 Feb 2014, 3:30 pm

I do believe Jesus did exist and he was a rabbi who went around trying to stir people up so the Romans got nervous and crucified him.



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01 Feb 2014, 3:47 pm

I don't even know anything about the guy, except that he was born in a barn.

That's what they say to me when I forget to shut the door. "Was you born in a barn"?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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01 Feb 2014, 3:49 pm

Me guesses these poor shepherds were born in barns and the Apostles wanted to ingratiate and bond with them.



Kenjuudo
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02 Feb 2014, 8:12 am

babybird wrote:
I don't even know anything about the guy, except that he was born in a barn.

That's what they say to me when I forget to shut the door. "Was you born in a barn"?
I know this is off-topic, but: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! ! That's hysterical! :lol:


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aghogday
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02 Feb 2014, 9:35 am

Well..here's one source that suggests Jesus is a Buddhist Monk..and considering that the gospels above and beyond the gnostic gospels.
that amplify this possibility..also talk about the Kingdom of Heaven in the NOW..LOVE your enemies..and many of the same other sentiments of Buddhist Monks..or at the highest levels Yogi's..that IS not surprising..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAaW6BYhfNM[/youtube]

But the most important part of Jesus' teachings..MAN OR INVENTED BY OTHERS..IS a modern MORE civilized approach of A life of LOVE..and EGALITARIANISM..IE..GENTILE OR JEW..SERVANT OR FREE..that is most definitely required for a growing tribe of HU MAN approaching a global one NOW..

But there ARE so many people in history that equal the 'POWER AND GLORY' of the man Jesus..through incredible abilities..for humans like Yogi's that do gain incredible powers to do what simple folks in the days of Jesus would see as 'GOD LIKE'..like being able to stay warm in icy waters..and walking over hot coals uninjured..through the WILL and mind and body control that allows one to control the total functions of the body AND MIND as ONE..

Simply by looking inward..instead of an illusion of a culture..that may influence folks from everything..from female genital mutilation is GREAT AND A WAY TO GO..FOR EVEN FEMALES THEMSELVES honoring and respecting the horrifying practice..TO BOMBING THE HELL OUT OF A COUNTRY..TO PAY FOR SOME CONTRACTS TO REBUILD IT..

NAH..IT AIN'T FOLKS LIKE JESUS..WHETHER OR NOT HE EXISTED..THAT ARE CRAZY..

IT IS CULTURE OVERALL AND PEOPLE SITTING IN FRONT OF A SCREEN ALL DAY LONG NOT MOVING..

THAT HAVE LITERALLY LOST THEIR..
MIND AND BODY..
AS IF YA DON'T USE IT YA LOSE IT..
SIMPLE BRAIN AND BODY MATH IS ALL THAT IS....

AND FOLKS LIKE JESUS..SIMPLY TRIED TO ENLIGHTEN FOLKS THAT THERE IS MUCH MORE TO LIFE..
THAN WHAT MEETS THE EYE IN THE HERD OF THE CULTURE..SCHOOL WORK AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT NAH..MOST people never heard/HEAR or even got the Buddhist Monk Jesus' message..

otherwise they would be enjoying the power and glory of the BLISS of the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IN THE NOW...

RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL THEY DIE..
FOR NOTHING..OR LIVING THE ILLUSION OF CULTURE..SCHOOL..WORK..ETC..ETC..ETC....

NOW THAT'S CRAZY..AND IT DON'T EVEN REFLECT THE MYTH OF JESUS..EVEN IF HE DIDN'T EXIST..
THAT
S AD
IS ALL..
IN MY OPINION..
I'LL GO FOR YOGI..
LIKE JESUS...MYTH OR NOT..:)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DctQTDm-HdU[/YOUTUBE]

AND NAH..I DON'T NEED NO CLASS..IT'S NATURAL TO BE A YOGI..IF ONE
SIMPLY ESCAPES THE PRISONS OF CULTURE..
JUST STARTS MOVING AGAIN..in all directions..not just walking on the sidewalk..
and it does naturally come as amazing new abilities..unlocked from our DNA..
through epigenetics...and neuroplasticity...

Even the ability to balance oneself when walking where moving is almost effortless..and
simply a joy..like a butterfly floating on land..defying gravity...

It's almost like walking on water..
if ya can imagine that..;)

And oh by the way..through the monotone sound of the voice of that guy in the OP opening video..
with no emotion and all of that..

It's pretty obvious to me..that he's only using half his brain..
when he even speaks..

perhaps he too..could be awakened/enlightened by someone..anyone..
like a YOGI...

They most often talk with full emotion..as they are using both hemispheres of their
brains in more of a full and intelligent manner..than a frigging boring..ring..
of an old phone...invented by culture..
and all of that..like the guy in the video linked
in the OP...
i would fall asleep listening to him..if i could make it through all of that..
dam only if he could use some emotion..humor ..or anything to keep an audience..
entertained..
yah..like a yogi..dam it..:)or
Jesus..the gnostic gospels myth or the man...
it doesn't matter anyway..the essence of truth is reality..
ALL YOGI'S KNOW THAT..TRAINED OR NATURAL..;)
or godlike or whatever...:)[email protected]

AND HERE IS MORE DETAILS LINKED HERE ON THE POTENTIAL
THAT THE HISTORICAL MAN JESUS..IS A YOGI..

AND YES HE WOULD HAVE BEEN DISTINGUISHED AS VERY SPECIAL..
IF HE WAS A YOGI..OUT THERE IN THE WILD OF JEWISH CULTURE....

LET'S JUST SAY..
HE WOULD BE HARD
TO FORGET...SERIOUSLY...
IN REAL LIFE..OR TEXT..AS PART
OF MYTH..OR WHATEVER.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hby/hby11.htm


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Moviefan2k4
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02 Feb 2014, 12:25 pm

Jesus most definitely walked this Earth; many historical accounts of first-century Israel describe His ministry, and that's without adding the text of the New Testament.


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02 Feb 2014, 4:31 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Jesus most definitely walked this Earth; many historical accounts of first-century Israel describe His ministry, and that's without adding the text of the New Testament.


Examples please.

And this is coming from someone who believes Jesus' existence is more likely than his non-existence.

I think both strong historicists and strong mythicists are being unreasonable. The best approach is agnosticism.



ArrantPariah
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02 Feb 2014, 5:04 pm

An interesting documentary on Constantine

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upLyP5co68s[/youtube]


Only tangentially related to the question as to whether Jesus really existed or not. Still, we see a big transformation in the religion at work.



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02 Feb 2014, 5:46 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Jesus most definitely walked this Earth; many historical accounts of first-century Israel describe His ministry, and that's without adding the text of the New Testament.


Examples please.

And this is coming from someone who believes Jesus' existence is more likely than his non-existence.

I think both strong historicists and strong mythicists are being unreasonable. The best approach is agnosticism.
Two commonly-cited sources are the writings of Josephus and Tacitus, but anti-theists often say those are forgeries because they hate anything that backs up Biblical claims.


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The_Walrus
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02 Feb 2014, 5:55 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Jesus most definitely walked this Earth; many historical accounts of first-century Israel describe His ministry, and that's without adding the text of the New Testament.


Examples please.

And this is coming from someone who believes Jesus' existence is more likely than his non-existence.

I think both strong historicists and strong mythicists are being unreasonable. The best approach is agnosticism.
Two commonly-cited sources are the writings of Josephus and Tacitus, but anti-theists often say those are forgeries because they hate anything that backs up Biblical claims.

Tacitus' one (I think, but it might be Josephus) does show evidence of being tampered with, but IMO not in a way that discredits it.

I think the main problem people have with them is that they weren't written by Jesus' contemporaries, but that's possibly an unreasonable request- "contemporary histories" were not common at the time.



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02 Feb 2014, 5:56 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Jesus most definitely walked this Earth; many historical accounts of first-century Israel describe His ministry, and that's without adding the text of the New Testament.


Examples please.

And this is coming from someone who believes Jesus' existence is more likely than his non-existence.

I think both strong historicists and strong mythicists are being unreasonable. The best approach is agnosticism.
Two commonly-cited sources are the writings of Josephus and Tacitus, but anti-theists often say those are forgeries because they hate anything that backs up Biblical claims.


Historical evidence also includes Roman records about "Chresto".



ArrantPariah
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02 Feb 2014, 6:52 pm

Okay, here is one you guys should watch

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4FsAQtnGN8[/youtube]

It talks about Josephus, and makes an excellent case for Jesus having been a completely Roman invention.



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02 Feb 2014, 6:56 pm

babybird wrote:
I don't even know anything about the guy, except that he was born in a barn.

That's what they say to me when I forget to shut the door. "Was you born in a barn"?


Born in a stable.



Moviefan2k4
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02 Feb 2014, 7:17 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Historical evidence also includes Roman records about "Chresto".
Isn't it spelled "Xristos"? I thought that's where we got the shortened "Xmas" abbreviation from.


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02 Feb 2014, 7:32 pm

I believe that a man named Jesus was born, lived and died.

During his life, he worked as a carpenter.

In the last few years of his life, he took up the lifestyle of a wandering rabbi (or "teacher") of Judaic history and law.

While he preached on peace, morality and justice, he incurred the wrath of the religious leaders.

The religious leaders framed him for Crimes Against the State (Imperial Rome), for which he was tried and found innocent. Under pressure from the religious leaders, the local Roman Governor had him flogged and executed as a thief anyway (as a matter of political expediency).

Whether or not he was of divine ancestry, or could heal the sick, raise the dead, make the lame to walk and the to blind see are a matters of personal faith, as is the claim that he died to atone for our sins.

That no record shows that he spoke against slavery, the subjugation of women, or conquest by genocide is disturbing to me; but then we have no idea how many details of his history were edited, omitted, or embellished upon between his death and the first writing of the Gospels, more than 30 years later.

And we certainly have no way of knowing for certain how badly The Church may have mangled the story of Jesus for its own profit.