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Did Jesus really exist?
Yes 74%  74%  [ 31 ]
No 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 42

ArrantPariah
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09 Feb 2014, 4:00 pm

I had been thinking about buying some of the books that the Jesus-mythicists were panning, but now I'm not going to.



aghogday
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09 Feb 2014, 7:47 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
I had been thinking about buying some of the books that the Jesus-mythicists were panning, but now I'm not going to.


So it seems ya have some time on ya..hands to explore this in greater detail like me..in video documentary form..

Here is a well rounded presentation..of who the REAL JESUS WAS..

AND THE REAL CONTRIBUTION..

OF THE MAN..

YAH..THE MAN..

I think that is wHere that
saying comes from..huh..;)

Narrated and explored by theologian Dr. Robert Beckford..from Oxford Brookes University..in the UK.

I think it's great..particularly the real life..example of people who use the positive teachings..attributed to the Historical man Jesus..to implement..

REAL CHANGE IN THE WORLD..

LIKE
GHANDI.

SUMMARY description from the You tube version of the documentary quoted here...from the You Tube linked Video...

Quote:
The Hidden Story of Jesus - Documentary

Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.

Was the Christ Story stolen from other, older religions? Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates remarkable parallels between the stories of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Mithra, and other major religious entities, and examines how these similarities impact Christianity and its message.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoVTicu-18g[/youtube]


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ArrantPariah
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09 Feb 2014, 9:15 pm

I'm sure that the Gospels are complete exaggerations, with a lot of material imported from other religions. But, I'm pretty sure that the man lived. At least his existence hasn't been satisfactorily disproven.



aghogday
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09 Feb 2014, 9:47 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
I'm sure that the Gospels are complete exaggerations, with a lot of material imported from other religions. But, I'm pretty sure that the man lived. At least his existence hasn't been satisfactorily disproven.


In my opinion..it is neither here or tHere..

BUT YES ALL EVIDENCE seems to lean more toward
a man than the myth....

The nuggets of gold..of what the story teaches...

goes on as long as the words remain...

And there are many positive things in history attributed to those nuggets of gold..in words...

and YES negative things with the trash that is interjected..by whoever....

But the key is..nothing 'he said' IS really new..that is actually contributing to positive things
in the history of mankind..

The same stuff (nuggets of gold)IS attributed to Buddha..Muhammad..Krishna..and probably
millions of other folks..through the longer history of mankind..in 'get along' form...

Nothing really changes..

what works in life..
or what does not work..
depending on the individual of course...
as well..with so many different potential perceptions..

about in general...

[email protected]


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MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 9:41 am

Aghogday, c'mon man, we've been over this before in another thread. Those are false information about Krishna and others being an inspiration for Jesus story.



aghogday
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10 Feb 2014, 9:47 am

MCalavera wrote:
Aghogday, c'mon man, we've been over this before in another thread. Those are false information about Krishna and others being an inspiration for Jesus story.


Watch the video if ya get..time that is not at all what it is or i am saying..

The myth part is the part that keeps the story going..it's likely added in for longevity..and borrowed
from whatever worked for other teachings from historical teachers in the past....

Mythology has been used for thousands of years in recorded human history and prehistory..
to amplify teachings of truth through hyperbole of emotion..

This is the way the human brain works to form memories..through emotion..
and humor or fear..sexual escapades ..or extraordinary feats..of humanity are some of the best human
communication techniques to help form these memories..and keep 'em intact....

Particularly in oral tradition..The American Indians and other primitive people..use many types of myths
to house human truths that really help folks survive in the long run as a whole species..in fact....

But that's marketing 101 ..should be no surprise..really .. at least in my mind..as a person
who actually did marketing as part of my over two decade government career...

The jewels and gems are in the nuggets of gold..that remain that really help folks..

I don't think you are a doctor of theology .. at Oxford .. dude..

So i'll give the 'good' doctor a little credibility..over your opinion..in my opinion.....
in this case..at least....
The video really is good..for those folks who have all the time in the world like me..

to do whatever..retired and all of that....


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Last edited by aghogday on 10 Feb 2014, 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 9:49 am

Dude, he's wrong. And yes, according to this description:

Quote:
The Hidden Story of Jesus - Documentary

Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.

Was the Christ Story stolen from other, older religions? Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates remarkable parallels between the stories of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Mithra, and other major religious entities, and examines how these similarities impact Christianity and its message.


You're wrong.



MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 9:52 am

And speaking of credibility, Bart Ehrman recently wrote a book debunking people like this theologian you put your faith in.



aghogday
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10 Feb 2014, 9:57 am

MCalavera wrote:
Dude, he's wrong. And yes, according to this description:

Quote:
The Hidden Story of Jesus - Documentary

Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.

Was the Christ Story stolen from other, older religions? Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates remarkable parallels between the stories of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Mithra, and other major religious entities, and examines how these similarities impact Christianity and its message.


You're wrong.


Well no.. in my opinion..you are incorrect dude..my logic is logic...
and makes 'good' sense in my opinion..

The full context of the video..makes it clear he is only talking about the myth part...

but if ya.. like.. we can agree to disagree...

or not..
makes no difference to me....

And here is an excellent example of what i am talking about..
a virgin birth..or resurrection from the dead..is really overall no different..
than housing basic..
cognitive behavioral therapy techniques..
in a story about 2 wolves..

Bottom line..is if ya take the real advice that works..
ya are better off in life..in the long run...

That
s what is important..in the long run..

The myth just keeps the story going longer..
to house the truth..
and keep folks getting IT..(the truth that is)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8CHjX8HauA[/youtube]


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MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 10:12 am

f the description is anything to go by, then he is saying that Jesus Gospel story was copied from previous myths like those pertaining to Krishna, Mithras, Buddha, and so on. But that's wrong. And had you ever read the Hindu and Buddhist books and other mythologies, you'd know as well how wrong he is.

And it's not just my opinion. Experts themselves find these views to be ridiculius and absurd. And that's why Bart Ehrman (who has much more credibility than a theologian like Beckford in these areas) was compelled to finally write a book just to point out the flaws in those views that are being spread by many over the Internet.



MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 10:14 am

And if your point was just to spread some form of wisdom, do it without spreading clearly false information.



aghogday
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10 Feb 2014, 10:17 am

MCalavera wrote:
f the description is anything to go by, then he is saying that Jesus Gospel story was copied from previous myths like those pertaining to Krishna, Mithras, Buddha, and so on. But that's wrong. And had you ever read the Hindu and Buddhist books and other mythologies, you'd know as well how wrong he is.

And it's not just my opinion. Experts themselves find these views to be ridiculius and absurd. And that's why Bart Ehrman (who has much more credibility than a theologian like Beckford in these areas) was compelled to finally write a book just to point out the flaws in those views that are being spread by many over the Internet.


Perhaps i am not making myself clear..
But it is not the actual teachings of Jesus Christ that are the myths..

Again.. that is not at all.. what Doctor Beckford is suggesting...

The myths are the virgin birth..and the resurrection from the dead..the walking on water..feeding a bunch of folks with a little bit of food..etc...

These are consistent myths from the different stories of the historical teachers and teachings housed in these myths..that are either coincidence..
or borrowed...

And they are not included in the gospel of Thomas..as documented in the documentary....

More likely borrowed than coincidence..it wouldn't have been
hard for 'Paul' or 'whoever' to make that happen..if 'they had any common marketing sense..
to do whatever it took to keep the story going....

i'm not going for divine intervention in this case....


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aghogday
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10 Feb 2014, 10:24 am

MCalavera wrote:
And if your point was just to spread some form of wisdom, do it without spreading clearly false information.



Dude these are all opinions..

We are here to discern..the truth..i think..

And opinion is not false information..

It is just an opinion..

But again..

in my opinion..i think...
i'm more than likely correct...

i could be 'wrong'
but i doubt it...


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MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 10:25 am

I'm contesting those claims that are in the description you quoted. It says nothing about Jesus' teachings. Let me make it clear what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that it's false that the myths say the Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds and that Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts.

If you don't believe me, read the relevant portions in the Hindu and Buddhist texts yourself.



aghogday
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10 Feb 2014, 10:39 am

MCalavera wrote:
I'm contesting those claims that are in the description you quoted. It says nothing about Jesus' teachings. Let me make it clear what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that it's false that the myths say the Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds and that Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts.

If you don't believe me, read the relevant portions in the Hindu and Buddhist texts yourself.


All these myths as far as we know..were spread well after the actual existence of any of these historical teachers.
Dr. Beckford is not at all suggesting that they are in actual official Hindu and Buddhist text..

He is a doctor of theology at Oxford..dude..ya seriously think he ain't read 'em...
common sense..please....

Oral tradition..is as all it would have took..to make this happen..

But then..maybe coincidence..or even divine intervention..

i'm keeping my mind..
open...completely open..
well beyond common sense...

There are more mysteries in this life and fuller reality..

than you can likely imagine..

that you haven't encountered yet...

and may still find...in ya real life...

i have quite a few i could relate..

But i certainly will not do that here..

in reason land....
i'll save that for the poets..

..in poetry land.

Also for clarity..Dr. Beckford did not write the
little sketch on the youtube summary..

It's just an advertisement

for the video..

and there seriously isn't room for all the detail..
in an hour and forty minute video..

in a short paragraph..
a teaser ...just to get folks to watch..

as is the case with all other short
marketing efforts..

that are often hyperbolic..in part..
to capture the attention..
of a nation..and growing world now...

with little capacity..for more than
two sentences of focus..if that much.

ergo..why i write like this..
it works..better..than walls of text..
to keep focus and attention..

for any chance..
of generating deeper
thought..out there
in
the
herd..

i think..
but again..i could be incorrect..
but i'll keep trying..
my best..
as
always......
it's the only reason
i
am
alive.


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MCalavera
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10 Feb 2014, 11:04 am

If they are not found in any of the relevant texts, then the evidence is lacking and this theologian is spreading a lie. I don't care if it's advertising or not. If it's not true what he's saying, then it's not true.

And many scholars well-read in these subjects strongly disagree with him, so no point in appealing to his authority when his is contested by many far greater than him.