Page 12 of 19 [ 293 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 19  Next


Did Jesus really exist?
Yes 74%  74%  [ 31 ]
No 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 42

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

14 Feb 2014, 3:10 am

Jesus was most likely called Son of God because he was a rabbi. When you think about it, this makes the most sense.



ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 117
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Feb 2014, 7:34 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
For the most part, the interpretation of Revelations presented in the article is what most mainline Protestant denominations, as well as Roman Catholics, teach today.


Actually, I think that most mainline Protestants and Catholics just ignore Revelations. Which is unfortunate, because that pretty much leaves public discourse on Revelations to the wackos.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,419
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

14 Feb 2014, 11:52 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
For the most part, the interpretation of Revelations presented in the article is what most mainline Protestant denominations, as well as Roman Catholics, teach today.


Actually, I think that most mainline Protestants and Catholics just ignore Revelations. Which is unfortunate, because that pretty much leaves public discourse on Revelations to the wackos.


True, but when it is discussed in my church, we make it abundantly clear that that Tim LaHaye Left Behind crap is just that, crap. I recall when my pastor had dedicated several weeks of Bible study to Revelations, not once, but twice, and how he had emphasized that while the evangelical view of the book might be popular, it's hardly right.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 117
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Feb 2014, 12:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
True, but when it is discussed in my church, we make it abundantly clear that that Tim LaHaye Left Behind crap is just that, crap. I recall when my pastor had dedicated several weeks of Bible study to Revelations, not once, but twice, and how he had emphasized that while the evangelical view of the book might be popular, it's hardly right.


Oh, the Evangelical view is extremely popular. Nut cases like Michelle Bachmann go completely unchallenged. I think that it would be extremely valuable if your side could get your version out there.

The Evangelicals present themselves as being the authentic Christians who believe the word of God, and poo-poo mainline practices and beliefs. The Evangelicals seem to be quite effective in using the mainliners as convenient punching bags.

Which might tend to discourage otherwise-normal people from attending your church. The Evangelicals are telling us that your churches aren't any good, and Evangelical churches are a big turn-off for many people. So, a lot of people decide: "Okay. I'll just take up atheism and stay home."



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,542

14 Feb 2014, 1:04 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
True, but when it is discussed in my church, we make it abundantly clear that that Tim LaHaye Left Behind crap is just that, crap. I recall when my pastor had dedicated several weeks of Bible study to Revelations, not once, but twice, and how he had emphasized that while the evangelical view of the book might be popular, it's hardly right.


Oh, the Evangelical view is extremely popular. Nut cases like Michelle Bachmann go completely unchallenged. I think that it would be extremely valuable if your side could get your version out there.

The Evangelicals present themselves as being the authentic Christians who believe the word of God, and poo-poo mainline practices and beliefs. The Evangelicals seem to be quite effective in using the mainliners as convenient punching bags.

Which might tend to discourage otherwise-normal people from attending your church. The Evangelicals are telling us that your churches aren't any good, and Evangelical churches are a big turn-off for many people. So, a lot of people decide: "Okay. I'll just take up atheism and stay home."


Meh..those are just the left overs of last Century...

the Information age is Killing the Evangelical way..may BE not fast enough..

but it's happening..all around us ...

NOT EVERYONE IS WATCHING FOX NETWORK NEWS YA KNOWnow...AND THEIR COUNTERPARTS...IN MEDIA..

DANCING WITH THE STARS AND THOSE COUNTERPARTS..ARE SCORES MORE IMPORTANT..IN THE EYES OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC....
AND I'M PERSONALLY QUITE PLEASED WITH THAT..AS MY WAY TO 'GOD' IS DANCE MOREOVER THAN ANYTHING ELSE....

But people seek overall meaning in life..for the most part...

As long as we are humans..

Folks are gonna find some type of abstract linguistic expressions...
to describe what they think..

makes life tick...

GOD..or whateva..that part is largely moot...

in the thousands of years..panorama....

Everywhere on earth...

Not just on OUR TV SHOWS..CATHEDRALS AND SUCH AS SUCH
AS
[email protected]

THE UNIVERSE AND RECORDED HISTORY BEFORE AND AFTER...
IS A

VERY BIG
PLACE

BUT
VERY SMALL
AT
THE
SAME
TIME
TOO......


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 117
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Feb 2014, 1:18 pm

aghogday wrote:
Meh..those are just the left overs of last Century...


Well, yes. At my age, I may still be living to some extent in the 20th century.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,542

14 Feb 2014, 1:36 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Meh..those are just the left overs of last Century...


Well, yes. At my age, I may still be living to some extent in the 20th century.


i'm curious if ya don't mind sharing..

i too was a DOD government worker..retiring after 24 years..on a medical disability..19 documented
disorders..a fresh AUTISM SPECTRUM diagnosis and all of that..

but the bottom line IS
the Autistic Burnout thingy or total human exhaustion..
IS a REAL LIFE THING...

I READ IN one of your threads..that you experienced decompensation..which is
just another term for some form of total human exhaustion...

otherwise described as general adaption syndrome by Hans selye..

anyway..do you mind sharing how old you are...

or are you keeping that part secret..
to hmmm..maybe get a date...;)
somewhere down
the
line..on the information highway...

No problem if you are private..

i used to be private..2

but no
everything and i do mean everything
about me can
be
seen and
or
found on the internet..

all the 'dirty' details
are tHere....

including my age
at 53....

But anyway that too is PART of how i cured all my disorders..or at least put 'em in remission...

I do what works..
whatever it is....

to make life the bestest

it
can
be....

And nah i ain't joing the army to get tHere either..now
or friggin before..

i'm a lover
not a dam
fighter...:)

unless..i believe in something..strongly ......
or defend someone who is oppressed....

But anyway more on topic..
i used to watch the news all the time..
before i lost effective use of my eyes and ears...
back about 6 years ago...

Regaining that back..the last friggin thing i do is watch the news..
it's like a friggin soap opera...
i didn't miss a thing..of real importance..other than ACA..which i could
do in text..and research..without FOX NEWS..CNN..MSNBC..and all of that...

Matter of fact..i rarely watch TV at all..

In my opinion..overall it can rot the brain...

Creativity..from within..
rather than living in someone else's world..
is where it's at
for me..

and with your music i'm sure it's that way for you too..
at least in part...:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,419
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

14 Feb 2014, 2:11 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
True, but when it is discussed in my church, we make it abundantly clear that that Tim LaHaye Left Behind crap is just that, crap. I recall when my pastor had dedicated several weeks of Bible study to Revelations, not once, but twice, and how he had emphasized that while the evangelical view of the book might be popular, it's hardly right.


Oh, the Evangelical view is extremely popular. Nut cases like Michelle Bachmann go completely unchallenged. I think that it would be extremely valuable if your side could get your version out there.

The Evangelicals present themselves as being the authentic Christians who believe the word of God, and poo-poo mainline practices and beliefs. The Evangelicals seem to be quite effective in using the mainliners as convenient punching bags.

Which might tend to discourage otherwise-normal people from attending your church. The Evangelicals are telling us that your churches aren't any good, and Evangelical churches are a big turn-off for many people. So, a lot of people decide: "Okay. I'll just take up atheism and stay home."


Unfortunately, that's all too true. Palin would talk about Christians finding "bible believing churches," which is code for evangelicals. While Glen Beck, who himself is a Mormon, would suck up to the religious right with devoting several episodes to Revelations and millennialism, calling it "Christian beliefs," which is another way of saying that anyone not toting those beliefs aren't real Christians, and had only evangelical theologians on his program. In regard to Bachmann, she used to be a Lutheran (albeit the Wisconsin Synod, which makes my own Missouri Synod look like flaming liberals!), but long before she had switched denominations, she had immersed herself into all that born again crap.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 117
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

15 Feb 2014, 9:05 am

aghogday wrote:
anyway..do you mind sharing how old you are...


Image

Anyway, here is a crash course in Christianity

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY[/youtube]



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,542

15 Feb 2014, 9:53 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
aghogday wrote:
anyway..do you mind sharing how old you are...


Image

Anyway, here is a crash course in Christianity

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY[/youtube]


Thanks for the video..i don't see any mistakes in it..great catch on your XTianity research..fishing expedition..;)

And oh boy..do i love a narrator..than can talk almost as fast as me..when i explain things in real life..:)

55 ..well..i am approaching 54..on June 6th...from my 6660 culturally deviled birth date....

And i'm really looking forward to my 55th birthday and December 6th of that birthday year..

As i will be 666 months old...

And all the sixes will be in alignment for

whatever...:)

But i've seriously found a way to grow younger in spirit..

and it even shows in my physical appearance..

The REAL Yogi way ..is much more mystical than anything in the OFFICIAL New Testament...

And the health benefits are real and documented as beneficial by Science....

now..which i kinda like..as i know it's real..

as a scientist myself....

BECOMING ONE WITH THE ALL THAT IS..

is simply escaping ALL THE ILLUSIONS OF CULTURE...

I can take that for granted NOW..

but there was a time...that i was so far lost in the 'MATRIX' OF CULTURE..

That i did not see any way in HELL OUT OF

SERIOUS HUMAN MADE HELL..

THAT MOSTLY
I ADMITTINGLY BROUGHT UPON MYSELF...

By believing the BS of culture....

Instead of

finding and listening to my 'HEART'...
AND
SOUL
AND
SPIRIT..CONNECTING THE CORE OF WHAT
i am..
with IT..
ALLITIS

So far away from the 'left brained..

prison'..i stayed in.. so much of my life...

No doubt if you did research and wrote technical papers for the AG dept...

ya lived a 'good' part of ya life in that hemisphere too...

i played the piano..and created some music before i fell to total human exhaustion...

but the piano..was about the only 'right brained' thing..i did in my life...

that even came close to making me

a full
human being..with more than
half a brain...:)

But now i'm actually at least as much 'right brained' or more
than 'left brained'...

All the tests that measure this general phenomenon.. bear that out for me too....

i can even use my left hand to reach for things falling off my back..but it's not just a practice
of mind control..

it is also the intelligence of overall physicality..and movement in general..that i have increased by leaps and bounds..

in only 7 months or so..simply by exploring it with no holds barred..for over 600 miles now..in just the last 5 months...

As opposed to almost a complete shut in for over 60 months..ending last July..hardly able to navigate myself to an oatmeal bowl
in the kitchen cabinet..and having to watch my wife walk..just to coordinate myself to walk at Super Walmart..into the last 5 years..stuck behind a desk at work..virtually attached to the
screen of a computer...

That my friend..if i may call ya that..is remarkable...

and YES DESCRIBED AS AN ACTUAL HUMAN MIRACLE BY MY THERAPIST..WHO did everything she could to spark emotion..
in my stone cold heart..for over 2 years....

There is most definitely a 'HIGHER' force and energy we can connect to and utilize as human beings through the discipline of mind and body...
that is far far far away..

from the common experience of life...

in our western culture...

Western cultures..have a long way to go...

to make their inhabitants..

fully human...

there is no doubt in my mind..NOW..

that some eastern cultures..are far far far...
ahead in their established historical practices..in mind and body disciplines .. that folks too are falling away from there..
per the instant gratification..POTENTIAL IN MODERN SCREEN 'ADDICTION' ways of life....

IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO BE FULLY HUMAN in my opinion..

unless one moves..at least 25 percent of waking hours....

if one does...

i do not see where depression..and bad health...

could even be...

much of a problem...

as long as that movement IS done in free flow...

like TAI CHI..

and not a straight line of movement..where the impact on joints..
is a longer term..destructive... instead of beneficial effort...

i became an old man fast at 47...to 53...

but now at 53..am healthier ..more agile..flexible..THAN I WAS AT 29 when i thought at that time..
my physical abilities peaked....
and seriously even am observed by others as floating on land when i walk...NOW..

but no...

i still am not walking on water 'yet' or 'levitating'....;)

but if i do..get that 'good' at it..(walking)..

i'll make sure i have my iPhone5 camera/video capability with me to capture it for evidence...

and yes..i'll even share it here first...:)in one of my free verse poetic expressions..
of real time
philosophy....;)

And no i am not @ALL expecting to do [email protected]

but..most everything else NEW is most definitely almost unbelievable for me..per the reality that i have now in my
life...
so...

i
am
keeping an open mind..to any possibility..OR IMPROBABILITY In life.....

i WILL NEVER BE LOCKED AND PRISONED IN A 'LEFT BRAINED' WAY OF LIFE 'ONLY'
AGAIN...
@least i hope...:)
NOT


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

15 Feb 2014, 6:31 pm

@ ArrantPariah

that crash course is a good find, it misses out some very important points but get the basics across well. I dont understand people who know this history and yet still belief jesus to be the messiah and son of god, Bizzare


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,542

15 Feb 2014, 10:28 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
@ ArrantPariah

that crash course is a good find, it misses out some very important points but get the basics across well. I dont understand people who know this history and yet still belief jesus to be the messiah and son of god, Bizzare


It's bizarre...just a misunderstanding like the stuff that happens on this internet site all the time...

Jesus the real dude..referred to folks in general as sons of GOD..which is just a metaphor..that presents the bold 'new' idea..that is far far from new at all..
that the power of this force or energy..that some folks refer to as GOD..is within us..just waiting to be found in life...

And as far as messiah goes...that's just a dude with an important message for humankind in general..

to help 'em out...

And regardless of who wrote those gospels in the New Testament..those jewels that do continue in the written words there...
have saved so many lives...

IN REAL LIFE..PER SIMPLY HOPE AND BELIEVING IN LIVING...

THAT fussing all up about..details that don't mean anything..in real life...

is kinda ridiculous and a waste of time to me....


Just like the cake analogy..the dude in the video talked about....

ThE ONLY SON OF GOD..CRAP..IS JUST A MYTH..TO GET THOSE GREATER
TRUTHS..ACROSS..TO SAVE REAL LIVES..
DAY BY DAY...

THE TRUTH SAVES LIVES..
AND YES..THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF TRUTH..IN THE NEW TESTAMENT...

unless ya think ya are smarter..
than THOMAS JEFFERSON...

HIGHLY UNLIKELY IN MY OPINION..THAT ANYONE ON THIS FORUM IS...

Now.. that was a man..
with
real
common sense...
AND REAL FULL
INTELLIGENCE.

http://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

16 Feb 2014, 6:30 am

aghogday wrote:
And regardless of who wrote those gospels in the New Testament..those jewels that do continue in the written words there...
have saved so many lives..


Really, you spoken to any Jews recently. :roll:


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Last edited by DentArthurDent on 16 Feb 2014, 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Declension
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

16 Feb 2014, 8:20 am

I don't really understand why some ex-Christian atheists think it's extremely important to claim that Jesus never existed. What's the problem with Jesus existing?

Do you really think that it's a slippery slope from "I believe that Jesus existed" to "I believe that Jesus had magic powers"? Those two propositions are pretty far apart.....



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,542

16 Feb 2014, 9:38 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
aghogday wrote:
And regardless of who wrote those gospels in the New Testament..those jewels that do continue in the written words there...
have saved so many lives...


Really, you spoken to any Jews recently. :roll:


Dude it's just common sense..OR COGNITIVE EMPATHY/social cognition...if ya wanna call it that....

Wisdom saves lives..

The Jewels of Wisdom saves lives..

The Truth Saves LIVES and TRUE WISDOM

IS TRUTH...

THERE ARE NON-TRUTHS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT...
AND TRUTHS...

THAT FOR THOSE WHO CAN DISCERN...'EM..

SAVES LIVES...

TWISTED AROUND FOR HARM...

Almost any human word or human action can cause harm to another...

And by the way..

I didn't say Christianity..the way it is practiced in reality... saved anything...

I said the Jewels of GOLD..

per this Wisdom of truth did...and DOES ..in that SACRED aspect OF THE
TEXT....in what remains of the new testament...book...

YA CANNOT SEEM TO SEE THIS IN ANYTHING ELSE BUT BLACK AND WHITE TERMS..

OF ALL BAD OR ALL GOOD..

LIFE AND TRUE REALITY IN GENERAL...AIN'T EVER THAT WAY...

IT IS ALWAYS
A MIX....
OF POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE...DARK OR LIGHT..
AND CONSEQUENCE OF ENERGY..
FLAVORED DARK OR LIGHT....
BY HUMAN 'TASTE'...
in our own little minds of
illusion..
unless we can break free..
from the 'matrix' of
culture...
which yah..is like a camel
going through a needle..these days..
for sure...
The empirical evidence..of instant gratification..
provided as such by culture..
is more than evidence enough of this
human illusion...that is against..
all social animal nature..better suited
for intermittent gratification....

In other words..
working for life...

and if this is too long for ya to read..complicated or whatever....

i'm always talking to the audience..by far.. not just yA...
or any other single person here when i 'speak'......

But anyway..for example ...like it or not.. the atrocities..committed by Adolph Hitler..IN PART..
provided the inspiration and motivation..to develop nuclear weapons..to ultimately
end that war quicker..and save more lives..in total cost benefit analysis...


While it would be nice if the world were a perfect place of utopia...life don't work that way..and
neither does reality...

The greatest good ..often comes out of the most horrifying of atrocities..like
the holocaust..

And in general..that sacrifice of human life..not wanted or volunteered..

Is in part now..
why..

there have been no more world wars to date...

The lives saved there...

are potentially a billion or more in effect...

just since the 1940's...

AND those horrifying weapons of death over Japan....that
YES ended up saving more lives later..many more lives..and continuing on today...

for the threat of mutual annihilation...

Sad that humans are that tribal IN TRUE EFFECT...to inflict this type of pain on the 'others'..

but it is
what it
is..

Until something..if possible.. changes the entire world..
into a tribe...

Now that..would take..
a lot of
LOVE..and change in the way..
homo SAPIENS sapiens..think through yes..
cultural illusion2.....

Otherwise known as the
JEWELS OF WISDOM..
THE GOLD OF TRUTH...

IDEALISTIC..
YES..

BUT STILL POSSIBLE..
TO
SOME
EXTENT...

SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN
NOTHING..ALWAYS...

BEEN THERE ..DONE THAT PART...2

TRUST ME.. YA DON'T WANT TO GO THERE...

TO TRUE HUMAN HELL....not to say ya haven't been..

i know nothing of you here..and don't need to...

but..i am an open book...and fearless...

Anyway..i'll link this video..again..as Jack Nicholson plays a 'fairly' representative...
analogy in this movie..in what all of GOD is in reality..
'IT' ain't no cake walk..

The greatest sacred aspects of life...
are often
adversity..
and breaking the so called cultural rules...in effect..

whenever...or whatever may be required for the good of
whatever tribe is perceived per human social animal nature....

and yes..
the nature and actions of culture too...that is as natural..
as the prehensile thumb and written language....negative..or positive..
dark or light..again..whatever IS the consequence.. of energy..dark or light..positive or negative..
AND..
what may taste 'right' in 'flavor' of consequence of energy..for whatever culture is in effect and the human beings..
comprising 'IT'...


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk[/youtube]


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,419
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

16 Feb 2014, 11:22 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
aghogday wrote:
And regardless of who wrote those gospels in the New Testament..those jewels that do continue in the written words there...
have saved so many lives.../quote]

Really, you spoken to any Jews recently. :roll:


But really, when have Jews been killed by American Christians? And with the most recent mass murder of Jews by Europeans in the Holocaust, while Hitler and the Nazis had been raised in Christian homes, most of them had lost their religiosity by adulthood. And during the Second World War, it's a fact that church attendance in Germany was at it's very lowest, with most Germans falling for astrology and mysticism.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer