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Are religions unfair to women?
Yes 75%  75%  [ 43 ]
No 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 57

aghogday
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14 Feb 2014, 11:38 pm

LKL wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
...God DOES instruct His people to force others into exile and kill anyone remaining. This, however, is all part of a punishment God intended for those people in the first place. ...we can't escape the Biblical fact that everything that happens, whether good or bad, happens because God allows it to happen.


yeah, that right there pretty much exemplifies why religion does more harm than good. First there's the 'If my god commands it, then it is moral (regardless of how objectively evil it seems to anyone else), and second there's the, 'It's not as bad as it seems, because my god wants it this way,' excuse for evil and suffering.

With specific regard to women in the New Testament, a selection of passages for your enjoyment (seriously, AR, have you even read it?!):
Matthew:
Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. But what if the husband is unfaithful? Jesus doesn't seem to care about that. 5:32, 19:9
Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29
The kingdom of heaven like ten virgins who went to meet their bridegroom. Five had oil for their lamps and five didn't. When the bridegroom was ready for them, only the five well-oiled virgins got to have sex with him on their wedding night. The bridegroom shunned the other five, saying "Get lost. I don't even know you." The moral to the story is this: watch out, you never know when (or with whom) Jesus will come.25:1-13
(the emphasis of that story is more, 'be prepared for the rapture,' but it demonstrates that the NT writers were perfectly fine with polygamy).
Mark:
Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30
Luke:
"They had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren."
Oh God, another barren woman! It's always the woman's fault in the Bible. 1:7
Even Mary had to be "purified" after giving birth to Jesus. Was she defiled by giving birth to the Son of God? 2:22
Males are holy to God, not females. 2:23
Abandon your wife and family for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 18:29-30
John:
Jesus magically perceived that a Samaritan woman had been married and divorced five times previously. (He could spot a divorced woman a mile away.) Since women weren't allowed to get a divorce, it was always the woman's fault and divorced women were considered outcasts. This was a great opportunity for Jesus to explain why the Mosaic marriage laws were unjust and correct them -- if he thought they were wrong, that is, which apparently he didn't. 4:7-18
Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him because he hasn't yet ascended -- as if the touch of a woman would defile him and somehow prevent him from ascending into heaven. 20:17
Acts:
If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; otherwise, God will send you all to hell. 16:31
The jailer was so impressed with the holy jailbreak that he converted on the spot. He and his entire family were baptized that night. It didn't matter to Paul (or God) what the jailer's wife and kids thought about it. They were "his" so he could do whatever the hell he wanted with (or to) them. (This stupid story supports the idea of infant baptism, which has divided Christians for centuries.) 16:33
(apparently a woman's salvation, or lack thereof, depends entirely on her husband... and, of course, unmarried women don't exist).
Romans:
Paul explains that "the natural use" of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. 1:27
1 Corinthians:
Paul would prefer that no one marry. But he says "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife." 7:1-2
Paul says "the head of the woman is the man," meaning that the women are to be subordinate to men. 11:3
If a woman refuses to cover her head in church, then her her head must be shaved. 11:5-6
"A man ... is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man." 11:7
"For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man." 11:8
"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." 11:9
Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35
(Great guy, that Paul).
Ephesians:
Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24
Wives must reverence their husband. 5:33
Colossians:
Wives, according to Paul, must submit themselves to their husbands. 3:18
1 Timothy:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 2:11-12
Men are superior to women since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing." 2:14-15
You should help a widow only if she: has no children or nephews; is desolate, trusts in God, and prays all the time; is not living in pleasure (a widow living in pleasure is the living dead); is over 60 years old; had only one husband; has raised children; has lodged strangers; has washed the saints' feet; has relieved the afflicted; and has diligently followed every good work. 5:3-10
Never help a young widow (one under 60 years old). When they wax wanton against Christ, they'll get married, and be damned to hell for rejecting their faith. Besides, young widows are idle busybodies, wandering around from house to house saying things they shouldn't say. They should get married and have children (though they'll be damned to hell for it). Heck, some of them have already turned aside after Satan. 5:11-15
Titus:
"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands." 2:4-5
1 Peter:
Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1
Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel." They are to do these things in imitation of the "holy" women of the Old testament who were "in subjection to their won husbands: even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord." 3:2-6
In relation to her husband, the wife is "the weaker vessel." 3:7
2 Peter:
Lot, who in Gen 19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later(19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8
(In Lot's defense, his daughters got him drunk and raped him, because apparently they had been taught that letting one's father's bloodline die out is a worse crime than rape and incest).
1John:
John writes to the men (fathers) only. Women (mothers?) are not important enough to address. 2:13-14
Revelation:
Jezebel (whom God had thrown off a wall, trampled by horses, and eaten by dogs (2 Kg 9:33-37) is further reviled by John, saying "that woman Jezebel" taught and seduced God's "servants to commit fornication." 2:20
Jesus will "cast her [Jezebel] into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her." 2:22
Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4

source: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html

That's not even all of it, just the juicier bits of the New Testament. The Old Testament is even more repulsive. And, lest you cry, 'Out of Context!' I can personally attest that these passages are pretty much described as they are taught in church.


Yup it's all about controlling the reproductive freedoms of womEn..AND MEN

And oh my GOD gasp..

the high priest..homosexuals..didn't MENTION that part...
that is so reviled today..by so many so called
Christians...
that do not know the meaning of Sacred LOVE
and never ever never ever...
repressing anyone..
for the way..
GOD MADE THEM....
OR WHATEVER THE FORCES ARE
THAT GLUE THIS WHOLE THING..
TOGETHER..:)

THERE IS A LOT OF CRAP ..YES..EVEN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT..
THE INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE IS ALL THERE IN THIS POST OF YOURS..

BUT still Universal truths still do remain in the New Testament2...

One would hope reasoned minded folks..who yes too..wanna do that sacred love thingy..

can separate the nuggets of crap..
from nuggets of gold....

Cause that s**t is crap....:)


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14 Feb 2014, 11:56 pm

I assume that fundamentalists of the female submission movement will say similar things to what Muslims claim. That this isn't inequality or unfairness, this is just respecting the natural order as god made it. Women are different, not lesser, and each gender has their role. Men lead. Round and round.

Islam has certain other bits like it taking two women to equal the word of a man in court. The spare woman is present to remind the first one in case she goes all female and starts making mistakes. And men can physically correct their wives. Conservatives say this can be a beating. Less conservative Muslims claim it's just a "tap" to correct them.



Last edited by simon_says on 15 Feb 2014, 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

aghogday
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15 Feb 2014, 12:05 am

simon_says wrote:
I assume that fundamentalists of the female submission movement will say similar things to what Muslims claim. That this isn't inequality or unfairness, this is just respecting the natural order as god made it. Women are different, not lesser, and each gender has their role. Men lead.

Islam has certain other bits like it taking two women to equal the word of a man in court. The spare woman is present to remind the first one in case she goes all female and starts making mistakes. And men can physically correct their wives. Conservatives say this can be a beating. Less conservative Muslims claim it's just a "tap" to correct them.


Well..one of my good friends..is a Muslim Girl from Pakistan..

She just was subjected to religious and cultural sanctioned rape..
in an arranged marriage a few weeks ago..
that she described as her looked forward to funeral...

It's much much worse in those countries than this one..

And the stove top killings of new wives over there..could be as high as 16 out of 100,000..

about 5 times higher than the whole homicide rate in the US..

But official accounts put it at about 2.4 per 100,000..

close to the whole homicide rate in the US...

It ain't a good place to be a woman ...
And yes some women are brain washed to even accept the horrifying nature of cultural and religious sanctioned marriage rape..in full effect...
as a religious duty..a cruel one..that must be endured..
for the good of allah and country...

Now that sucks..by any imaginable measure of humanity ..in my opinion..

And i hope it changes..and i think it will..

As freedom is extremely contagious..and through information technology..
they are getting hungrier and hungrier for it..in Muslim countries..
Particularly the women..in their talk..behind..closed cultural..and religious doors....

And yes then there is Female genital mutilation..the lists goes..on
and that's nowhere in any religious text..but still sanctioned as such by religion..
in those countries 2....

Oh yeah..did i mention circumcision..
20% member discount..at birth...:)

Cute little trick to separate man
from APE...
but it don't change our animal nature..
not even 20%..:)


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15 Feb 2014, 12:26 am

LKL wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
...God DOES instruct His people to force others into exile and kill anyone remaining. This, however, is all part of a punishment God intended for those people in the first place. ...we can't escape the Biblical fact that everything that happens, whether good or bad, happens because God allows it to happen.


yeah, that right there pretty much exemplifies why religion does more harm than good. First there's the 'If my god commands it, then it is moral (regardless of how objectively evil it seems to anyone else), and second there's the, 'It's not as bad as it seems, because my god wants it this way,' excuse for evil and suffering.

With specific regard to women in the New Testament, a selection of passages for your enjoyment (seriously, AR, have you even read it?!):
Matthew:
Jesus says that divorce is permissible when the wife is guilty of fornication. But what if the husband is unfaithful? Jesus doesn't seem to care about that. 5:32, 19:9
Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29
The kingdom of heaven like ten virgins who went to meet their bridegroom. Five had oil for their lamps and five didn't. When the bridegroom was ready for them, only the five well-oiled virgins got to have sex with him on their wedding night. The bridegroom shunned the other five, saying "Get lost. I don't even know you." The moral to the story is this: watch out, you never know when (or with whom) Jesus will come.25:1-13
(the emphasis of that story is more, 'be prepared for the rapture,' but it demonstrates that the NT writers were perfectly fine with polygamy).
Mark:
Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30
Luke:
"They had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren."
Oh God, another barren woman! It's always the woman's fault in the Bible. 1:7
Even Mary had to be "purified" after giving birth to Jesus. Was she defiled by giving birth to the Son of God? 2:22
Males are holy to God, not females. 2:23
Abandon your wife and family for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 18:29-30
John:
Jesus magically perceived that a Samaritan woman had been married and divorced five times previously. (He could spot a divorced woman a mile away.) Since women weren't allowed to get a divorce, it was always the woman's fault and divorced women were considered outcasts. This was a great opportunity for Jesus to explain why the Mosaic marriage laws were unjust and correct them -- if he thought they were wrong, that is, which apparently he didn't. 4:7-18
Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him because he hasn't yet ascended -- as if the touch of a woman would defile him and somehow prevent him from ascending into heaven. 20:17
Acts:
If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; otherwise, God will send you all to hell. 16:31
The jailer was so impressed with the holy jailbreak that he converted on the spot. He and his entire family were baptized that night. It didn't matter to Paul (or God) what the jailer's wife and kids thought about it. They were "his" so he could do whatever the hell he wanted with (or to) them. (This stupid story supports the idea of infant baptism, which has divided Christians for centuries.) 16:33
(apparently a woman's salvation, or lack thereof, depends entirely on her husband... and, of course, unmarried women don't exist).
Romans:
Paul explains that "the natural use" of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. 1:27
1 Corinthians:
Paul would prefer that no one marry. But he says "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife." 7:1-2
Paul says "the head of the woman is the man," meaning that the women are to be subordinate to men. 11:3
If a woman refuses to cover her head in church, then her her head must be shaved. 11:5-6
"A man ... is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man." 11:7
"For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man." 11:8
"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." 11:9
Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35
(Great guy, that Paul).
Ephesians:
Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24
Wives must reverence their husband. 5:33
Colossians:
Wives, according to Paul, must submit themselves to their husbands. 3:18
1 Timothy:
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 2:11-12
Men are superior to women since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing." 2:14-15
You should help a widow only if she: has no children or nephews; is desolate, trusts in God, and prays all the time; is not living in pleasure (a widow living in pleasure is the living dead); is over 60 years old; had only one husband; has raised children; has lodged strangers; has washed the saints' feet; has relieved the afflicted; and has diligently followed every good work. 5:3-10
Never help a young widow (one under 60 years old). When they wax wanton against Christ, they'll get married, and be damned to hell for rejecting their faith. Besides, young widows are idle busybodies, wandering around from house to house saying things they shouldn't say. They should get married and have children (though they'll be damned to hell for it). Heck, some of them have already turned aside after Satan. 5:11-15
Titus:
"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands." 2:4-5
1 Peter:
Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1
Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel." They are to do these things in imitation of the "holy" women of the Old testament who were "in subjection to their won husbands: even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord." 3:2-6
In relation to her husband, the wife is "the weaker vessel." 3:7
2 Peter:
Lot, who in Gen 19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later(19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8
(In Lot's defense, his daughters got him drunk and raped him, because apparently they had been taught that letting one's father's bloodline die out is a worse crime than rape and incest).
1John:
John writes to the men (fathers) only. Women (mothers?) are not important enough to address. 2:13-14
Revelation:
Jezebel (whom God had thrown off a wall, trampled by horses, and eaten by dogs (2 Kg 9:33-37) is further reviled by John, saying "that woman Jezebel" taught and seduced God's "servants to commit fornication." 2:20
Jesus will "cast her [Jezebel] into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her." 2:22
Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4

source: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html

That's not even all of it, just the juicier bits of the New Testament. The Old Testament is even more repulsive. And, lest you cry, 'Out of Context!' I can personally attest that these passages are pretty much described as they are taught in church.

*yawn*

Biased source.

And horribly out of context. Don't care how they're taught in church, just how they are presented in the New Testament. I've grown to doubt tons of stuff I was taught in church. Church leaders are frequently wrong, and Christians should practice discernment on their own. That's not to say I don't respect pastors…but I don't take everything at face value, either.

And besides, my response to an earlier post had to do with specific other issues, not necessarily related to women. I'd like to know where in the New Testament men are instructed to rape women, wage holy war, commit genocide, and the like.

Now, I'm not going to go through every single quote-mined Bible verse you just assume proves your point and explain why you're wrong. Pick two.



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15 Feb 2014, 12:35 am

Dude, the source is *the Bible.*

Tell me any one of those passages that you think is "horribly out of context," and I'll past the whole whole passage from the KJV in this thread, and we can look at it "in context."

Also? the thread is about 'religion being bad for women,' not whether the NT specifically promotes rape and genocide (which, don't think I didn't notice, is a goalpost moved from an earlier conversation in a different thread).



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15 Feb 2014, 12:36 am

duplicate post



Last edited by LKL on 15 Feb 2014, 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

AngelRho
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15 Feb 2014, 1:04 am

LKL wrote:
Dude, the source is *the Bible.*

Tell me any one of those passages that you think is "horribly out of context," and I'll past the whole whole passage from the KJV in this thread, and we can look at it "in context."

Also? the thread is about 'religion being bad for women,' not whether the NT specifically promotes rape and genocide (which, don't think I didn't notice, is a goalpost moved from an earlier conversation in a different thread).

The commentary is blatantly biased. The Bible doesn't say that. Your source does.

And I don't care what the thread is about. I was responding to a different post within THIS thread, AspieOtaku to be specific.

And in case you haven't noticed, the thread is about AP trying to fix us up together while cleverly disguised as a thread to get us to fight over something. All disagreements aside, I find you very sweet and intellectually stimulating. I won't deny that nor the fact that it makes things difficult, but you need to understand that this relationship can't go any further.



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15 Feb 2014, 1:41 am

Pick a passage, AR.
Or admit the defeat implicit in your resort to ad-hominem attacks.



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15 Feb 2014, 3:02 am

AngelRho wrote:
And in case you haven't noticed, the thread is about AP trying to fix us up together while cleverly disguised as a thread to get us to fight over something. All disagreements aside, I find you very sweet and intellectually stimulating. I won't deny that nor the fact that it makes things difficult, but you need to understand that this relationship can't go any further.

Ironically enough, I was about to say the same thing... I didn't even realize AP had started the thread...

However... Since we insist on discussing this... Why are we ignoring the inconsistencies in the new testament? How can it be true if the following things exist in the book... And the sources I am giving are DIRECTLY IN THE BOOK... NOT someone commenting on them...


Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38 - differing genealogies for joseph

Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:2 - one states jesus was born during the reign of herod, the other states it was during the first census when quirinius was governor.

Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7 - last supper on the first day of passover; John 19:14 The day before passover.

Matthew 27:7 the chief priests buy the field. - Acts 1:18 Judas buys the field.

Matthew 27:5 Judas hangs himself. Acts 1:18 he bursts open and his insides spill out.

Matthew 26:57 says that on the night Jesus was arrested the priests and scribes were gathered together prior to Jesus being brought to the high priest. Mark 14:53 says the priests and scribes gathered together on the night of Jesus' arrest after Jesus was brought to the high priest. Luke 22:66 says the priests and scribes assembled the day after Jesus was arrested.

Mark 15:7 and Luke 23:19 say that Barabbas was guilty of insurrection and murder. John 18:40 says that Barabbas was a robber.

Who did the women tell about the empty tomb? According to Mark 16:8, "they said nothing to anyone." According to Matthew 28:8, they "ran to report it to His disciples." According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the eleven and to all the rest." According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord.

According to Luke 24:51, Jesus' ascension took place in Bethany, on the same day as his resurrection. According to Acts 1:9-12, Jesus' ascension took place at Mount Olivet, forty days after his resurrection.

By stating that this book is fact, when the writers of the book can't even agree on what happened... how can we draw any solid conclusions as to what is real or fake in it?


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15 Feb 2014, 7:17 am

To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.


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15 Feb 2014, 7:54 am

LKL wrote:
Pick a passage, AR.
Or admit the defeat implicit in your resort to ad-hominem attacks.

Ladies first.



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15 Feb 2014, 7:57 am

appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.



***Psssst.....Both sides have their biases, here. Now, just get some popcorn and enjoy the entertainment....***

Image



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15 Feb 2014, 8:04 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.



***Psssst.....Both sides have their biases, here. Now, just get some popcorn and enjoy the entertainment....***

Image


Thank you kind sir! :)


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15 Feb 2014, 8:42 am

appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.

Exactly my point. Also note the shift in burden of proof. This is a fairly all-too-common tactic, and I don't think Christians should have to be feel intimidated just because an opponent knows how to copy/paste the same, tired, old attacks from sources like "Skeptics Annotated" or some such. All I'm asking is for LKL or anyone else to simply pick two verses, and you see the attacking side refuses to do even that.

It's a simple test, and it's quite revealing: The opponent here isn't really interested in discussing the issue. We simply want to go on thinking we're right, the other person is wrong, and go on smearing beliefs we disagree with. It's easier to make it look like Christians are defeated by default, which is the whole point of the exercise. And I honestly don't care about it that much. I have a life and don't have time to go through every single out-of-context Biblical quote-mine. If it really meant that much, I'd have my two Bible passages by now and I'd have already shown how the other side is wrong.

I also happen to genuinely like LKL, and AP knows that. Sometimes I like playing up the comedy of the tension between us. However, my faith is a very deep, personal thing with me and not something I enjoy playing with…not that I haven't in the past, but I'm not really comfortable with that sort of thing. I can allow myself to be bullied about it by letting someone put me on the defensive when it's undue, I can make a joke about something I take very seriously, or I can just let it go. We Christians often dislike taking the third option, but we too often fail to recognize that we're being set up for a trap and that ignoring a pointless discussion is really for the best.



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15 Feb 2014, 8:46 am

Feralucce wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
And in case you haven't noticed, the thread is about AP trying to fix us up together while cleverly disguised as a thread to get us to fight over something. All disagreements aside, I find you very sweet and intellectually stimulating. I won't deny that nor the fact that it makes things difficult, but you need to understand that this relationship can't go any further.

Ironically enough, I was about to say the same thing... I didn't even realize AP had started the thread...

However... Since we insist on discussing this... Why are we ignoring the inconsistencies in the new testament? How can it be true if the following things exist in the book... And the sources I am giving are DIRECTLY IN THE BOOK... NOT someone commenting on them...


Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38 - differing genealogies for joseph

Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:2 - one states jesus was born during the reign of herod, the other states it was during the first census when quirinius was governor.

Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7 - last supper on the first day of passover; John 19:14 The day before passover.

Matthew 27:7 the chief priests buy the field. - Acts 1:18 Judas buys the field.

Matthew 27:5 Judas hangs himself. Acts 1:18 he bursts open and his insides spill out.

Matthew 26:57 says that on the night Jesus was arrested the priests and scribes were gathered together prior to Jesus being brought to the high priest. Mark 14:53 says the priests and scribes gathered together on the night of Jesus' arrest after Jesus was brought to the high priest. Luke 22:66 says the priests and scribes assembled the day after Jesus was arrested.

Mark 15:7 and Luke 23:19 say that Barabbas was guilty of insurrection and murder. John 18:40 says that Barabbas was a robber.

Who did the women tell about the empty tomb? According to Mark 16:8, "they said nothing to anyone." According to Matthew 28:8, they "ran to report it to His disciples." According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the eleven and to all the rest." According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord.

According to Luke 24:51, Jesus' ascension took place in Bethany, on the same day as his resurrection. According to Acts 1:9-12, Jesus' ascension took place at Mount Olivet, forty days after his resurrection.

By stating that this book is fact, when the writers of the book can't even agree on what happened... how can we draw any solid conclusions as to what is real or fake in it?

OK, so pick two.



aghogday
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15 Feb 2014, 10:29 am

AngelRho wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.

Exactly my point. Also note the shift in burden of proof. This is a fairly all-too-common tactic, and I don't think Christians should have to be feel intimidated just because an opponent knows how to copy/paste the same, tired, old attacks from sources like "Skeptics Annotated" or some such. All I'm asking is for LKL or anyone else to simply pick two verses, and you see the attacking side refuses to do even that.

It's a simple test, and it's quite revealing: The opponent here isn't really interested in discussing the issue. We simply want to go on thinking we're right, the other person is wrong, and go on smearing beliefs we disagree with. It's easier to make it look like Christians are defeated by default, which is the whole point of the exercise. And I honestly don't care about it that much. I have a life and don't have time to go through every single out-of-context Biblical quote-mine. If it really meant that much, I'd have my two Bible passages by now and I'd have already shown how the other side is wrong.

I also happen to genuinely like LKL, and AP knows that. Sometimes I like playing up the comedy of the tension between us. However, my faith is a very deep, personal thing with me and not something I enjoy playing with…not that I haven't in the past, but I'm not really comfortable with that sort of thing. I can allow myself to be bullied about it by letting someone put me on the defensive when it's undue, I can make a joke about something I take very seriously, or I can just let it go. We Christians often dislike taking the third option, but we too often fail to recognize that we're being set up for a trap and that ignoring a pointless discussion is really for the best.


Well..here's the point..your insistence that the actual practice of homosexuality..is against the ideology of Christianity..Indicates that you do not practice the true Christianity of no oppression against others who have natural differences from the norm...

It does not matter how good the new testament is as long as people practice it in real life this way...

And as much as you may try to defend this REAL LIFE PRACTICE THAT DOES HARM PEOPLE..AND POTENTIALLY LEAD SOME FOLKS TO SUICIDE FORCE FED THIS CRAP IN CHURCHES LIKE YOURS...

IT IS ALL TRULY ANTI-CHRIST IN TRUE EFFECT...

AND NOWHERE JUSTIFIED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT..
THAT YOU ARE FOCUSING ON IN THIS THREAD...

SO ALL I AM ASKING YOU TO DO IS DEFEND YOUR INSISTENCE...
THAT THE MORAL AND ETHICAL ARGUMENT against THE REAL LIFE NATURAL PRACTICE OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS CONSISTENT WITH THE TEACHINGS OF THE REAL
MAN
JESUS...

I'll be patiently waiting for your response..no so called Christian has logically defeated me yet..

in defending this so called christian assertion...

OH..and as far as women..go..

Just the fact that most Christian sects..refuse to allow women to be preachers..and or priests..

is evidence enough on it's own that the actual modern practice overall of Christianity.

IS STILL NOT FAIR TO WOMEN..AND NO..THERE IS NO REAL SUBSTANCE TO BACK THIS UP IN THE NEW TESTAMENT EITHER..

BUT REAL LIFE IS ALL THAT COUNTS..

NOT THE BOOK..(THE NEW TESTAMENT)

IF PEOPLE TWIST IT

TO HARM FOLKS IN REAL LIFE..

HARMING FOLKS IN REAL LIFE AND TAKING THEIR FREEDOM AWAY TO EXPRESS THEIR WILL..

IS THE GREATEST
MORTAL SIN ...
OF ALL

OPPRESSION AGAINST ANY OTHER..

SAME s**t THE REAL JESUS DUDE..AND THE SO CALLED DEVIL WORSHIPPER ALEISTER CROWLEY..AND SELF ADMITTED
666 BEAST...
WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS..

TO DEAF EARS...

SOME TIMES THE DEVIL IS
THE DETAILS...

AND YES THE REAL DUDE ALEISTER CROWLEY...
VERY MUCH RESPECTED THE REAL MAN JESUS' TEACHINGS

TOO...

IT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS HE DID ALL the 'unusual' THINGS HE DID..in real life...

TO BRING THE FULL TRUTH..OF THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS...
TO LIGHT AGAIN...

FOR SIMPLY TRUE WILL UNDER SACRED LOVE...

FOR
ALL

And guess what it's working..the seed of TRUTH IN ALEISTER CROWLEY'S
CORE PHILOSOPHY..AS IS THE SAME AS JESUS..and BUDDHA AND MUHAMMAD...

IS ALL OVER POP CULTURE..THROUGH THE NEW AGE REAL PROPHETS...

THAT YES DID GET THIS TRUE MESSAGE FROM 'AL'2...

THROUGH POP SINGERS..AS ICONS.. AS PROPHETS...IN MASS COMMUNICATION...

JESUS
LIVES...
IN TRUE METAPHORICAL EFFECT..FINALLY
NOW..

FINALLY
AGAIN....
AND LIKELY FOREVERMORE
NOW...

THE TRUTH
IS THE
TRUTH...

IT'S HARD TO KILL
ONCE IT TRULY
SPRINGS
TO
LIFE..

AS LIGHT..
THE
LIGHT
OF
TRUTH
IS LIGHT!


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Last edited by aghogday on 15 Feb 2014, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.