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Are religions unfair to women?
Yes 75%  75%  [ 43 ]
No 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 57

ArrantPariah
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15 Feb 2014, 11:05 am

Yeah, but still, why are women more religious than men? Why do more women than men go to church, if the church is unfair to them? :scratch:



aghogday
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15 Feb 2014, 11:10 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Yeah, but still, why are women more religious than men? Why do more women than men go to church, if the church is unfair to them? :scratch:


OVERALL women.. the ones that are allowed to be preachers and priests..naturally do a better job...

as they are overall genetically speaking..more effective empathic communicators....

The world would be a much much..

nicer place to live in...

if AT LEAST

50% OF PREACHERS AND PRIESTS

WERE WOMEN..

THE LIFE GIVERS..
THEY
NATURALLY
ARE...:)

IN MOST AREAS OF
LIFE.

BUT I'M A LADIES..
MAN..
WHAT CAN I SAY..

A TRUE
LADIES
MAN.

CHURCH IS ALL ABOUT LOVE..

IN OUR PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY..THE PART THAT STILL EXISTS...

it still ain't kool for dudes...to express their overall feminine or emotional side..

so church while it hates feminine dudes..

ain't a macho thing to do...

overall

still...

It's a place for love.

not war

still..

overall...

oh by the way..potentially interesting factoid..my grandfather was an infamous Catholic X-Vatican priest..and historically noted author..

Who led a crusade away from Catholicism..in the middle of last century...

at 36 he married my 17 year old grandmother out of his parish..in Perry Florida...

and the rest is history...

including me...

and no he did not walk on sidewalks either..

at least not his entire life...
either....

and ironically enough i still attend the Catholic Church...for the loving sharing spirit i find there..
with my high school tennis partner who is the fully fair minded true christian priest there...NOW

but i ain't no
Catholic..in any dogmatic affect.....
or effect..

I AM FREE


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Feralucce
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15 Feb 2014, 12:13 pm

AngelRho wrote:
OK, so pick two.

After you... refuting them is not why I posted them...

I am saying this in a conversational and not combative manner...I am not testing your faith, but asking honest questions....

I was asking a simple question... or rather casting a net with a simple question.
If you can refute these... then it only shows that it is your interpretation of the book that matters to you, and not the precise wording... which proves my point... If you can't, because the precise wording is important (which is necessary for it to be "the word of god") then it will prove my point...

I come from a unique standpoint in this discussion... I was very devout... to the point of actually becoming an ordained baptist minister when I was much younger... I have read the book cover to cover well over 20 times. I have compiled my information myself... and I have approached as the gospels said to... as a child... and what do children do? They ask questions... Why, how, where, and who...

I understand you are devoted... but belief, often, prevents us from being analytical... and without that, we are simply following what someone else has told us to believe, whether or not we see it that way...

I suggest reading genesis with an analytical eye... and ask those questions... how and why... There are contradictions in just that book... and if it is literally, the word of god... how can that be? Especially with the biblical statement that the word was with god and was god.


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ArrantPariah
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15 Feb 2014, 12:23 pm

AngelRho wrote:
LKL wrote:
Pick a passage, AR.
Or admit the defeat implicit in your resort to ad-hominem attacks.

Ladies first.


I know very well that you know very well that LKL isn't going to go first if say "Ladies first." That's a very cheap way to end the debate. :shameonyou:

So, to keep the party moving along, I'll pick two passages. I think that you two prefer King Jimmy's translation, so here you go:

1 Corinthians 11 wrote:
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


***one side note: Jesus is usually pictured as a long-haired hippy, but Paul apparently wouldn't have approved***

1 Timothy 2 wrote:
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


Interesting logic there.

So, have at it!



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15 Feb 2014, 12:29 pm

AP: you do realize that most of us are ignoring you, right? We're discussing with each other...


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15 Feb 2014, 12:32 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

1 Corinthians 11 wrote:
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.



1 Timothy 2 wrote:
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.



You realize that that is not Jesus speaking but a letter to Mr. Tim they added on? IOW, the early church added that, not God, or Jesus.
Also, the fact that Corinthians is a letter to the Greek city of Corinth?
There may be good things in those add-on books of the bible, but think if Jesus weren't dead or some thing like that. You would have no idea if he would agree with Paul, or any of the apostles.

When Jesus was alive he corrected the disciples constantly, so half that stuff is probably just Paul's and peters opinion.


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ruveyn
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15 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) are very biased concerning women.

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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15 Feb 2014, 1:12 pm

Feralucce wrote:
AP: you do realize that most of us are ignoring you, right? We're discussing with each other...


Yes. There are multiple discussions in progress. Please proceed. We'll get these two lovebirds together eventually.



ArrantPariah
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15 Feb 2014, 1:17 pm

appletheclown wrote:
You realize that that is not Jesus speaking but a letter to Mr. Tim they added on? IOW, the early church added that, not God, or Jesus.
Also, the fact that Corinthians is a letter to the Greek city of Corinth?
There may be good things in those add-on books of the bible, but think if Jesus weren't dead or some thing like that. You would have no idea if he would agree with Paul, or any of the apostles.

When Jesus was alive he corrected the disciples constantly, so half that stuff is probably just Paul's and peters opinion.


Okay. So your point is that this doesn't really count. But, for a lot of Christians, this material counts a great deal.

The Gospels weren't written until a long time after Paul had died. So, the words attributed to Jesus might be even further off the mark.



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15 Feb 2014, 1:17 pm

aghogday wrote:
Well, here's the point. Your insistence that the actual practice of homosexuality is against the ideology of Christianity indicates that you do not practice the true Christian belief of no oppression against others who have natural differences from the norm.

As much as you may try to defend this real life practice that does harm people, and potentially lead some folks to suicide from being force fed this crap in churches like yours, it is all truly anti-christ in affect!

So all I am asking you to do is defend your insistence that the moral and ethical argument against the real life natural practice of homosexuality is consistent with the teachings of the real Jesus!

Oh, and as far as women go: Just the fact that most Christian sects refuse to allow women to be preachers, and or priests,
is evidence enough on it's own that the actual modern practice overall of Christianity is still not fair to women. In fact, there is no real substance to back this up in the new testament either! But real life is what really counts, not the book (The New Testament)!
If people twist it to harm folks in real life, it is even worse!

Harming folks in real life and taking their freedom away to express their will, is the greatest
mortal sin of all!

Oppression of any other, is just plain horrible!

The Truth...
It is hard to kill once it truly springs to life!


I spiffed up your response for you.


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ArrantPariah
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15 Feb 2014, 1:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) are very biased concerning women.

ruveyn


Biased, yes. But do the women perceive them as unfair? Lots of Jewish women only want to marry a Jewish man, so that they can become Jewish wives and mothers, and keep following Jewish traditions. Same for other religions.

Why would they want to do this, if they felt that their religion was unfair to them?



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15 Feb 2014, 1:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) are very biased concerning women.

ruveyn


Yes your right.

"A lot of the people that claim to adhere to the teachings of Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity), are very biased concerning women. But not all.
I am ruveyn, and I am awesome"


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15 Feb 2014, 5:20 pm

appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.

be specific. Which passages do you think that I am twisting outside of their original meaning?

AngelRho wrote:
LKL wrote:
Pick a passage, AR.
Or admit the defeat implicit in your resort to ad-hominem attacks.

Ladies first.

I have never claimed to be a lady, and you're the one who claimed that some of my passages were out of context. Be specific or admit defeat.



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15 Feb 2014, 5:24 pm

LKL wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
To see the bible taken and twisted to such a degree, makes me think LKL is biased.

be specific. Which passages do you think that I am twisting outside of their original meaning?

AngelRho wrote:
LKL wrote:
Pick a passage, AR.
Or admit the defeat implicit in your resort to ad-hominem attacks.

Ladies first.

I have never claimed to be a lady, and you're the one who claimed that some of my passages were out of context. Be specific or admit defeat.

All of them. We win.


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15 Feb 2014, 5:25 pm

Wasn't that easy AR?


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15 Feb 2014, 5:26 pm

appletheclown wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:

1 Corinthians 11 wrote:
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.



1 Timothy 2 wrote:
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.



You realize that that is not Jesus speaking but a letter to Mr. Tim they added on? IOW, the early church added that, not God, or Jesus.
Also, the fact that Corinthians is a letter to the Greek city of Corinth?
There may be good things in those add-on books of the bible, but think if Jesus weren't dead or some thing like that. You would have no idea if he would agree with Paul, or any of the apostles.

When Jesus was alive he corrected the disciples constantly, so half that stuff is probably just Paul's and peters opinion.

In another thread, AR asked for evidence of morally repugnance in the Bible; in this thread he specified the NT; now you're specifying the words of Jesus. This is known as 'shifting the goal posts.'

Any response from AR on these passages? How does my citation of either of them, earlier, differ in any significant, meaningful way from the passages quoted directly? How can you defend this kind of content?