Page 1 of 2 [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

TornadoEvil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 697

02 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm

Once upon a time there was this guy named Jeusus. He go nailed to a tree for asking why can't we all be nice for a change, to paraphrase Douglas Adams. Claimed to be the son of god. As in, he was either batshit insane or was an incarnation of goodiness so goody he couldn't exist long in our world. The thing is no one can be perfect, there are choices where there is no best option, but we can pray, we can understand, we can repent. We're human. He taught that we're all human who have to make choices, morality is something that is greater than us that we can strive for. He taught to love our neighbors and love our enemies even more, for who needs it more? He taught not to judge, for who are we to know? What makes us feel fit to judge? We have to make decisions, but where is to far. Superficial gain from judging things, I don't really like it. What is it building besides anger and resentment. He taught to forgo sin, to instead find love, to find understanding. What greater reward is there? Paradoxes and nihilism seems to abound in me. I need to find joy where I can, and treasure it. Let go in the moment, but which moment? Why should I forget instead of remembering what I have done? How can I be at peace? I feel so alone.

I think I derailed myself.

Current Status: Agnostic +-20%



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,822
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

02 Mar 2014, 5:56 pm

I had the chance to take two laps through the bible last year with a refreshed mind (ie. not doctrinally tied down when I started). Very complicated book, in that it has so much intercourse with other cultures of that era - regardless of it's proclamations of their doom - that one has an incredibly hard time understanding it unless they see it as a tapestry of concepts.

If anyone really wants to understand the Christ story though, the best place to start is read some big/epic Platonist or neoplatonist authors, even the Hermetic corpus, and then go back and try on the Gospel of John. John seems to be insinuating heavily and in barely veiled ways that all human beings are aspects of the one, that Christ was the nexus of consciousness or group soul of humanity joining us in the flesh for an hour, and that this was a truly in-the-know delegate of the One Self speaking to all the little selves.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,419
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

03 Mar 2014, 2:14 am

I can't believe it! Finally, a post on WP that isn't critical of Christ and his message!


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


TheGoggles
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060

03 Mar 2014, 2:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I can't believe it! Finally, a post on WP that isn't critical of Christ and his message!


There are a lot of worthwhile teachings about forgiveness and compassion. Unfortunately, most people are in such a hurry to get to the part where they go to Heaven that they skip over all that stuff.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 84
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Mar 2014, 3:17 am

TornadoEvil wrote:
Once upon a time there was this guy named Jeusus. He go nailed to a tree for asking why can't we all be nice for a change, to paraphrase Douglas Adams. Claimed to be the son of god. As in, he was either batshit insane or was an incarnation of goodiness so goody he couldn't exist long in our world. The thing is no one can be perfect, there are choices where there is no best option, but we can pray, we can understand, we can repent. We're human. He taught that we're all human who have to make choices, morality is something that is greater than us that we can strive for. He taught to love our neighbors and love our enemies even more, for who needs it more? He taught not to judge, for who are we to know? What makes us feel fit to judge? We have to make decisions, but where is to far. Superficial gain from judging things, I don't really like it. What is it building besides anger and resentment. He taught to forgo sin, to instead find love, to find understanding. What greater reward is there? Paradoxes and nihilism seems to abound in me. I need to find joy where I can, and treasure it. Let go in the moment, but which moment? Why should I forget instead of remembering what I have done? How can I be at peace? I feel so alone.

I think I derailed myself.

Current Status: Agnostic +-20%



And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

words by Leonard Cohen



TornadoEvil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 697

03 Mar 2014, 3:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I can't believe it! Finally, a post on WP that isn't critical of Christ and his message!


You might be surprised at how many people can display aspie traits in college bible study groups then, if you weren't being sarcastic.



trollcatman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,919

03 Mar 2014, 4:19 pm

It's often repeated that AS people are less religious, but I see more religious people on WP than in real life. I only know a handful of religious people, the others are all atheists or non-religious.



Cash__
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,381
Location: Missouri

03 Mar 2014, 6:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I can't believe it! Finally, a post on WP that isn't critical of Christ and his message!

I don't mind Jesus's teachings. Throw away the old testament with its fairy tales and blood thirsty vengeful god and I'll think of joining. Wait, you better get rid of Paul also. Then maybe.
Nah, I still see no need for church itself. But Jesus's teacings themself, I have no real problems with.



DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

04 Mar 2014, 2:23 am

Jesus was born of himself after he had his father/himself impregnate a virgin who remained immaculate. He then allowed himself to be murdered by his greatest creation so that his father/himself could forgive the sins of his greatest creation. He then went back to his sky kingdom and although he said he would be back in a jiffy no-one has seen him since.

Makes perfect sense to me


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,540

04 Mar 2014, 7:06 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I had the chance to take two laps through the bible last year with a refreshed mind (ie. not doctrinally tied down when I started). Very complicated book, in that it has so much intercourse with other cultures of that era - regardless of it's proclamations of their doom - that one has an incredibly hard time understanding it unless they see it as a tapestry of concepts.

If anyone really wants to understand the Christ story though, the best place to start is read some big/epic Platonist or neoplatonist authors, even the Hermetic corpus, and then go back and try on the Gospel of John. John seems to be insinuating heavily and in barely veiled ways that all human beings are aspects of the one, that Christ was the nexus of consciousness or group soul of humanity joining us in the flesh for an hour, and that this was a truly in-the-know delegate of the One Self speaking to all the little selves.


This is precisely what true christianity is about. Jesus the man spoke in parables. Parables are not meant to be taken literally. Unfortunately some people are still taking those parables literally.

As far as the myths about Jesus being born of a literal virgin and him walking on water and him being crucified and literally resurrected from the dead; this is a result of literally thinking people doing just that; taking parables as literal rather than metaphoric truth. This is also a result of time and imperfections in the transfer of human communication through the complexity of the written word.

I went to see the movie SON OF GOD and it was clear to see in the end of the movie when the Apostle said i am the way (after Jesus left) that it was a parable that meant that GOD lives within us; not some fairy tale bearded man in the sky that reins with a patriarchal hand. Apparently the folks that produced the movie understood the truth of this.

Adults who are restricted by a life full of cultural rules to repress the instinctual nature of a social animal human being are for the most part adverse to anyone who ventures out of the social norm.

Most often folks who do this are described as insane by adults. But often children look at their behavior in a more open way as they are not fully brain washed yet by the norms of culture.

But here's the thing..two of the most influential men in the last two Centuries Steve Jobs and Albert Einstein were also considered crazy..in real life.

Simply for one reason and one reason only...

They did not adhere to the cultural norm...

Oops, sorry for the ellipses.

That is out of the cultural norm..here.. too.

I lived a life full of repression of my instinctual social animal human nature from my freedom to express the feminine side of my nature as a balanced human being to even being able to smile in the hallway of my middle school without being called a fa***t.

I don't like to be repressed.

And the only way to influence change in the word is to dare to be different.

But again, the core cause of human suffering is repression of our instinctual social animal human nature.

A great metaphor for this is hawks are not evolved to to fly on sidewalks and neither are human beings.

I walk in a spiraling motion in three hundred and sixty degrees wherever I go. This is not substantially different than how an American Indian hunting with crude weapons would stalk an animal for subsistence or even gather berries in the woods.

Children love it up to about age 15 and follow me all over stores and video tape me with their Smart Phones.

Most adults simply ignore me.

I am a menacing looking guy in real life just for my muscular physical presence, lack of fear and facial expression when i am laser focused on my TAI CHI style of walking.

Only one redneck guy who weighed about 270LBS had the nerve to tell me to my face that it looked ridiculous.

I told him I was a martial artist and this is what we do when we are not kicking ass and yes it does look like martial arts and is martial arts for all practical intents and purposes; and no i do not believe in fighting so I was telling the truth.

After that he scurried away.

Seeing the world in the eyes of a little child is the path to true happiness.

Life does not have to be as complicated as folks make it.

Bliss is possible NOW.

This is the message of the human man Jesus who was not much different inherently than i or you perhaps, except that he was free.

A man that lived by instinct and love, instead of repression of his human social animal nature, as directed by the prison of Human designed culture through the tools of complex language and collective intelligence.

It is THIS SIMPLE.

LET IT GO..

FLOW...

THAT IS A PARABLE.
by the way

ISA is the path to happiness; NOT KSA.
ISA equals Instinct Skills and Ability.
KSA equals Knowledge Skills and Ability.

Most animals live FREE by ISA and humans imprisoned by the abstract constructs of complex language, collective intelligence and culture, in general, live by KSA.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Last edited by aghogday on 04 Mar 2014, 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

Stannis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,631

04 Mar 2014, 7:35 am

.

Theism encourages a credulous mindset, which has negative ramifications in the political arena. We have real problems, and we need real solutions that are not informed by evidence, and not superstition.

Faith is ally to spin, disinformation and demagoguery; people ought to be encouraged to adopt techniques of critical thinking, for their own protection, and in support of a thinking, rational democracy.



Last edited by Stannis on 04 Mar 2014, 8:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

Cash__
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,381
Location: Missouri

04 Mar 2014, 7:57 am

If the gist of Christianity is to be nice to other people, then religion and god are still unnecessary. People can and are nice without god or religion every day.

If the gist of Christianity is to be nice to other people, then it's no different then what my grandmother used to teach me. So as far as teachers are concerned, my grandmother is equal to Jesus.

Your summary of Christianity makes it trivial and unnecessary.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,540

04 Mar 2014, 9:09 am

Cash__ wrote:
If the gist of Christianity is to be nice to other people, then religion and god are still unnecessary. People can and are nice without god or religion every day.

If the gist of Christianity is to be nice to other people, then it's no different then what my grandmother used to teach me. So as far as teachers are concerned, my grandmother is equal to Jesus.

Your summary of Christianity makes it trivial and unnecessary.


Well of course.

But some folks don't have the ethical equivalent of your grandmother; christianity, when practiced as such by TRUE CHRISTIANS.

This is part of common sense, otherwise known as cognitive empathy and or social cognition.

Myths house the vehicles and vessels (otherwise known as words) that carry universal truths (the essence; the meaning) for all human beings; not just the ones with wise grandparents.

The real historical man Jesus was all about common sense; not the BS of some religious and cultural ideology, as well as folks who 'think' they 'KNOW' IT ALL.

THINKING HAS VERY little to do with Universal TRUTH.

And knowing; TRUE knowing; has very little to do with what we understand as the English language or any other HUMAN CULTURAL abstract construct to lock us out of truth of SIMPLY BEING HUMAN; AKA TRUE KNOWING.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

04 Mar 2014, 9:48 am

Breaking the message of Jesus down to its core has led to many different versions of the historical Jesus. Professional scholars can't even agree which one is correct and which one is the embellishment.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,540

04 Mar 2014, 10:10 am

simon_says wrote:
Breaking the message of Jesus down to its core has led to many different versions of the historical Jesus. Professional scholars can't even agree which one is correct and which one is the embellishment.


What rings true is as simple as that.

This is not rocket science.

It is the human instinct of LOVE.

All the research in the world will not change a damn thing about
LOVE and that is what the REAL Jesus was ALL
about; LOVE.

I know as i am LOVE and LOVE is TRUE KNOWINOW.

(KNOWINOW) is a metaphor for the human instinct for truth in the NOW that requires no words; it is not word salad and THE TRUTH IS extremely hard to convey in words.

But i try and i do not give up ever NOW.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Stannis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,631

04 Mar 2014, 10:31 am

Faith is indifferent to the objective desirability of particular values.