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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Mar 2014, 9:44 pm

Lately I have been studying gnosticism and consider myself a gnostic, though not necessarily one in the traditional Christian sense. I do not discount life beyond the material and believe there are layers we cannot see or discern and I do not know their relationship to our physical lives. In this way I am Gnostic.
Concerning Christianity, I am fascinated by the Gospel of Thomas where it says in the divine realms all humans are the same. I wonder what Christians think of this particular Gospel?



Moviefan2k4
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21 Mar 2014, 10:23 pm

From what I've read, the Gospel of Thomas has nothing to do with the apostle himself, just as the Gospel of Mary isn't about Jesus' mother. It seems that in the earliest risings f Christianity, various attempts were made to add different doctrines to established teachings, and those additions weren't based on eyewitness accounts like those of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul. One of the Gnostic books actually says women are not worthy of life, and that women can only enter heaven if they make themselves male! That's certainly against the respect Jesus showed for women in His earthly life, so I understand why it was omitted. People have been trying to discredit Jesus since before his death, and they continue to do it now because they don't want to be held accountable by Him.


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simon_says
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21 Mar 2014, 10:42 pm

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not eyewitness accounts. They are much later. IIRC, "Luke" himself admits that and it's obvious that both he and "Matthew" are copying from "Mark" and another source. They are all anonymous accounts full of contradictions. And of course Paul was not an eyewitness.

As for the gnostics. The one thing I'll give them points for is the idea of multiple emanations from a higher Pleroma and then emanations from emanations, etc.. Which sounds a bit like a multiverse and multiverses are a topic in physics today. If gnostics make a come back they'll no doubt brag that they predicted it all along. :lol:



Last edited by simon_says on 21 Mar 2014, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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21 Mar 2014, 10:43 pm

Ana, another stream of thought you might want to check out that's related albeit not quite over the line into material pessimism is the 18th century writings of Louis Claude de Saint-Martin. He talks about the fall and reintegration with God from the mystic/gnostic point of view (the 'Martinist' order also caries his name as well as that of Martinez de Pasqually).

There's another book on that tilt as well and one that both Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI had in their position which was Meditations On the Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism. It's a post-humus release by Unknown Author (Valentin Tomberg) translated into English by Robert Powell. The reason they'd have it is he goes into incredible depth on Christianity and particular a Hermeticized take on Catholicism from the perspective of western mystery tradition - each of the 22 letters on the major arcana of the tarot is 25 to 30 pages of discourse on different streams of thought, authors, esoteric history, worldly sociological issues, spiritual/mystic realities and their interconnection with sociology, etc. all spooled around the core concepts of that particular tarot card in it's Marseilles format. I have read that and it was one of the most informative gnosis-related books that I've gotten my hands on. I mention Meditations on the Tarot in connection with the above because Valentin was also related as a student of Anthroposophy (Rosicrucian diaspora a la Rudolph Steiner) and later recanted a lot of Steiner's material based on both earlier study he had done in the way of Russian mysticism centered around the tarot and how his Martinist studies as well as that of Papus, Eliphas Levi, John of The Cross, etc. really reshaped his viewpoints.



simon_says
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21 Mar 2014, 10:59 pm

Well, I'll give the Gnostics two points really. One, they don't like Yahweh. Two, the Pleroma is a neat idea.



techstepgenr8tion
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21 Mar 2014, 11:30 pm

The material pessimism in Christian Gnosticism is tough for me to relate to. It does present an interesting stream of history though and it was also somewhat interesting as well recently to read about the Albigenses and the battle waged against them by the church back in the late middle ages (it really goes to show also just what thugs the Vatican really were - hadn't improved all that much since the days of Justinian I)

This stuff seemed to come back at various times in various ways almost seemingly of it's own volition or in some senses the needs of certain populace whose spiritual needs aren't being met.



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22 Mar 2014, 12:57 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
From what I've read, the Gospel of Thomas has nothing to do with the apostle himself, just as the Gospel of Mary isn't about Jesus' mother. It seems that in the earliest risings f Christianity, various attempts were made to add different doctrines to established teachings, and those additions weren't based on eyewitness accounts like those of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul. One of the Gnostic books actually says women are not worthy of life, and that women can only enter heaven if they make themselves male! That's certainly against the respect Jesus showed for women in His earthly life, so I understand why it was omitted. People have been trying to discredit Jesus since before his death, and they continue to do it now because they don't want to be held accountable by Him.


Well..unfortunately it seems that you are reading the Gospel of Thomas literally as it is not meant to be read that way...

It speaks to the feminine and masculine balance of human being..to gain spiritual oneness..both for males and females...

It is impossible to obtain Kundalini..or whatever term is used to describe enlightening awakening..in keeping sensual and sexual repression..and the YIN or feminine is the driving force in all spiritual experiences...

So it is the patriarchs as designed by so called modern Christianity in preventing folks from obtaining what can be described as Christhood..or buddhahood..or whatever other term is used to describe an enlightened human being..when..human sexuality and sensuality is repressed in any way...

True Christhood..is exploding in human creativity..emotion..sensual and sexual expression...

More than likely not only did Jesus..defend prostitutes in his extreme state of creativity..and escape from the pedantic leanings of religion at that time..he likely partook..of the 'gifts'...of his prostitute friends...IN HIS REAL LIFE..THEN.

God is sex..get used to it...

It's been like that forevermore now...and repressing it IS..in ANYWAY..IS simply anti-christ in effect.. to control the reproductive freedoms..of females to keep beta males happy..and subjugating folks with fear..to keep the 'fat cats'..'pockets full'..GENERALLY speaking....

Nothing..reALLy IS changed..NOW..most people want the lazy ride..to Heaven...

But real heaven..IS extreme work..and never a luke warm effort to get to the same kingdom of heaven that Jesus IS talking about then...

It is a mystical experience..it ain't no 'pie in the sky'..though...

How do i know...

Been there done.. IT NOW..

Let's just say..it's an extreme sport..not for the faint of heart..or body...soul..or spirit...!

And nah.. ya ain't gonna find it in ANY book..

THERE ARE NO words..that can adequately describe IT..

BUT i'm still trying to do IT..Wordsmith..and all of that!

But there is no easy way to lead a camel..through the eye of a needle....
horse to water...or whatever other metaphor one wants to use..to describe


Winning IS an extreme sport of life..in heart..soul..and spirit...

God don't make the REAL IT easy..
ya can trust me on that..AS
like i said...been there done IT..NOW!

And of course all of this is just my opinion..
of what i know to be
TRUTH...AND NO ONE WILL EVER
DETER..MY TRUTH AND FAITH...IN
THE ONE GOD THAT IS ALL THINGS..
AND YA..BETTER BET..SEX IS AT THE TOP OF
ALL THINGS..FREEDOM IN GOD'S KINGDOM OF
HEAVEN NOW...AND HELL NO..god ain't no prude...
GOD IS SEXY BEAST....in metaphor..of course..


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