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one1ai
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06 Jun 2009, 6:32 am

Hi,

does anyone dual boot or use a free software distribution? I installed gNewSense just to see how far a fully free libre software distribution has come, and now I'm stuck on it, because it's like Ubuntu 8.04 , with non-free software removed from both the kernel and from programs that run on the Operating System.


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khelben1979
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06 Jun 2009, 7:46 am

Yes. I have Linux installed on two of my computers.


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one1ai
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06 Jun 2009, 7:59 am

ok. To be more clear.

Has anyone used a free libre software distribution that doesn't have non-free software or that recommends non-free software?

I installed gNewSense(there are other distributions too like Dynebolic, Musix, BLAG and more) in the first place so I could know how far a distribution containing only free software (and only recommending such software that people are allowed to change and share) has come.

By the way all the non-free parts or most of them in the linux kernel have been removed. There is even a project now that releases or tries to release free/libre linux kernels.


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cyberscan
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06 Jun 2009, 8:28 am

I use Slackware on one computer and a self compiled distribution on the computer I am using now. Just about all of the software I use is Free or self written.


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06 Jun 2009, 10:56 am

If you're going with the Stallman/FSF definition of "free" software, you don't have many actually useful choices. In my case, there are exactly 0 practical choices, because I need a proprietary driver for my wireless card, and no one has yet written an open-source replacement.

Debian offers libre kernels, and several other projects do as well. Fedora is very strict on only including open-source stuff as long as you stick with the default repos. Even Ubuntu will use only free software unless you tell it otherwise. Stallman is basically just being a fanatical douchebag by boycotting anyone who makes it *possible* obtain non-free software.

The issue is in device drivers and firmware, mostly. If something doesn't run on my hardware, I don't care that "it's the manufacturer's fault." It worked fine with my old software, so if I try something new and it doesn't work, it is the fault of the new software. Also, free/libre software is not yet mature enough for most multimedia purposes. I use proprietary codecs so I can watch Youtube videos. When Gnash is actually working, I'll use that instead.


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one1ai
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06 Jun 2009, 1:21 pm

Yes, the free software definition by the free software foundation.

There are fully free software distributions, with both kernel and general software non-free software removed.

The final step for software freedom is to choose such a distribution that doesn't recommend non-free software.


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06 Jun 2009, 1:48 pm

Orwell wrote:
In my case, there are exactly 0 practical choices, because I need a proprietry driver for my wireless card, and no one has yet written an open-souce replacement.....Even Ubuntu will use only free software unless you tell it otherwise.

I hope I have properly understood that...need help w/something I think is related. I'm more or less computer illiterate and linux challenged in particular. Nevertheless I'm motivated and determined, only giving up when it appears I haven't the skills and knowledge to accomplish what I want. Some history...

About 6 years ago I became obsessed with learning about Linux. After spending several months researching and reading online, I kinda gave up thinking I'd not be able to get the kind of personal tutoring I needed to achieve what I wanted. Then in Jan '07, I bought a pc with dual boot XP Pro and Ubuntu. Although I'd like to, I've not used the Ubuntu OS because of a glitch: I couldn't figure out how to obtain the ISP connection. The main reason I even have a pc is for the internet. Now the XP OS is acting strangely [please I don't want to try Vista] and I was just wondering prior to finding this thread if it will even last 3 years, let alone almost 5 like my previous pc.

So once more I'm motivated to figure out how to get Linux online and then I can just use Microsoft for running a couple software programs that won't run on Ubuntu. I have to use my cellphone as a modem which is currently operating via a USB cable connection. Continuing with that method would be best because I didn't have to get into an effing 1 or 2 year contract with it. Alternatively there is a wireless card [also using cell as modem] which would require the 1 or 2 year contract. Previously I had thought it preferable to stay with XP rather than opt for the contract. I've changed my mind and now find it preferable to get Ubuntu hooked up via my cell phone if there is any way to do that.

So is there a way? Is there any way I can continue with my present setup--USB cable from cell to pc? If not, then how about via wireless card and frickin contract? I'd probably need to upgrade to the current Ubuntu version? Figure out which wireless card to use? Then comes the hard part....Obtain/buy the proprietary driver for the card and figure out how to interface it with Ubuntu. Without step by step directions written for an idiot, it will be impossible for me...I'm assuming from Orwell's post that there would be a command line instruction to enable Ubuntu to utilize the proprietary driver for the wireless card. And a few more com. line entries to translate whatever CD instructions comes with the wireless card--into Linux [?] Install driver, hope Ubuntu detects it and figures it all out etc.

How hard will this be?



Last edited by alba on 06 Jun 2009, 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Keith
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06 Jun 2009, 2:12 pm

Dual booting is so 2008 ;) 8)

I use Wine to play Unreal Tournament 2004 and Quake3 Arena. openGL is so cool :)



khelben1979
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06 Jun 2009, 2:25 pm

alba wrote:
I have to use my cellphone as a modem which is currently operating via a USB cable connection.


This can get a bit tricky. The Linux system needs to find and identify the modem which you have in that mobile phone.
Ubuntu DialUpModemHowto is a good start, I think.


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pakled
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06 Jun 2009, 6:12 pm

So lemme see if I have this straight.

You get the OS (Linux), and it's bare-bones; if you have any non-standard hardware, you have to buy the drivers from the vendor? (I've never had to do that on the Windows side).

If you want any commercial software, I'd expect that yes, you'd have to pay for that. I'd probably go 'open source' form most of it.

Support is where I'd get stuck; I want to load Apache, etc., and teach myself Linux servers without having to shell out a couple thou for a RH...er, whatever the CNAA/MCSE equivalent is.



alba
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06 Jun 2009, 8:01 pm

khelben1979 wrote:
alba wrote:
I have to use my cellphone as a modem which is currently operating via a USB cable connection.


This can get a bit tricky. The Linux system needs to find and identify the modem which you have in that mobile phone.
Ubuntu DialUpModemHowto is a good start, I think.


Thanks for replying khelben. It looks complicated and - without a tutor - is beyond my comprehension. :(



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06 Jun 2009, 8:05 pm

pakled wrote:
So lemme see if I have this straight.

You get the OS (Linux), and it's bare-bones; if you have any non-standard hardware, you have to buy the drivers from the vendor? (I've never had to do that on the Windows side).

No, not at all. The drivers are still free of cost, but some people object because they are not open-source, and GNU/Linux is intended to be an open-source operating system. Also, most widely-used Linux distros are not at all barebones: they typically come with at least one web browser if not several, a full office suite, an e-mail client, some games, multimedia programs, and huge repositories of freely downloadable programs to add on.

Quote:
Support is where I'd get stuck; I want to load Apache, etc., and teach myself Linux servers without having to shell out a couple thou for a RH...er, whatever the CNAA/MCSE equivalent is.

You get free support from the community.


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Sparx139
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06 Jun 2009, 11:12 pm

alba wrote:
Orwell wrote:
In my case, there are exactly 0 practical choices, because I need a proprietry driver for my wireless card, and no one has yet written an open-souce replacement.....Even Ubuntu will use only free software unless you tell it otherwise.

I hope I have properly understood that...need help w/something I think is related. I'm more or less computer illiterate and linux challenged in particular. Nevertheless I'm motivated and determined, only giving up when it appears I haven't the skills and knowledge to accomplish what I want. Some history...

About 6 years ago I became obsessed with learning about Linux. After spending several months researching and reading online, I kinda gave up thinking I'd not be able to get the kind of personal tutoring I needed to achieve what I wanted. Then in Jan '07, I bought a pc with dual boot XP Pro and Ubuntu. Although I'd like to, I've not used the Ubuntu OS because of a glitch: I couldn't figure out how to obtain the ISP connection. The main reason I even have a pc is for the internet. Now the XP OS is acting strangely [please I don't want to try Vista] and I was just wondering prior to finding this thread if it will even last 3 years, let alone almost 5 like my previous pc.

So once more I'm motivated to figure out how to get Linux online and then I can just use Microsoft for running a couple software programs that won't run on Ubuntu. I have to use my cellphone as a modem which is currently operating via a USB cable connection. Continuing with that method would be best because I didn't have to get into an effing 1 or 2 year contract with it. Alternatively there is a wireless card [also using cell as modem] which would require the 1 or 2 year contract. Previously I had thought it preferable to stay with XP rather than opt for the contract. I've changed my mind and now find it preferable to get Ubuntu hooked up via my cell phone if there is any way to do that.

So is there a way? Is there any way I can continue with my present setup--USB cable from cell to pc? If not, then how about via wireless card and frickin contract? I'd probably need to upgrade to the current Ubuntu version? Figure out which wireless card to use? Then comes the hard part....Obtain/buy the proprietary driver for the card and figure out how to interface it with Ubuntu. Without step by step directions written for an idiot, it will be impossible for me...I'm assuming from Orwell's post that there would be a command line instruction to enable Ubuntu to utilize the proprietary driver for the wireless card. And a few more com. line entries to translate whatever CD instructions comes with the wireless card--into Linux [?] Install driver, hope Ubuntu detects it and figures it all out etc.

How hard will this be?


I'd suggest taking this to the capable hands of The ubuntu forums. They're quite user friendly, and so long as you're polite and say you're a newbie, they'll help you if they can. Just remember to be specific: Tell them the brand and model number of the hardware; the more information that you give, the more likely they'll be able to help

Also, I'd suggest taking some google searches on the problem: (if the brand is XYZ and the model is ABC)

Linux XYZ ABC
Ubuntu XYZ ABC Internet
XYZ ABC Modem Linux

The chances are someone else has had the same problem, and there's a fair chance that there's a forum post about it somewhere on the internet. If you have a read through those discussions, you might be able to find clues to what you could google (again), or if you're lucky, you could come across a solution.



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06 Jun 2009, 11:39 pm

Getting the latest Ubuntu helps too. Driver support has really increased.


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one1ai
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07 Jun 2009, 8:36 am

I didn't expect that many replies actually. I expected you to tell things like "yes I tried a fully free software distribution , Ututo" or "I tried gNewSense but it was really bad and I went back to Ubuntu".
I think someone on wrongplanet.net had tried blag(a "free as in freedom" distribution) which fits the free software foundation definition of what "free software" is.

I dual boot with Ubuntu and a free(as in freedom) distribution.


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Bitcoin is not complex. If you understand Public-key cryptography, Digital Signatures and Proof of Work algorithms like HashCash(SHA-2/SHA-256) as a concept it will not be too hard to comprehend it.