Do NT's consider smarminess a positive trait for a leader?

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Lecks
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09 Jun 2009, 10:09 am

marshall wrote:
Postperson wrote:
yes, but they don't call it smarminess and i don't think they regard it as a negative thing. puzzles me too.

I think they call it self-confidence. :roll:

Stuck-up twit works too.



AmberEyes
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09 Jun 2009, 10:32 am

No.

I think that they consider social confidence, genuineness and friendliness to be positive traits.

These aren't the same as smarminess.
People are fickle and will complain and protest if a leader doesn't deliver (in a Democratic Government anyway).

The people ask:

"Is this leader interested in me and my problems?"
"Does this leader care about the people?"
"Do I agree with his/her policies?"


I have been lucky to meet someone who genuinely believed in his cause and was a fantastic leader. He genuinely helped and cared about people. He could talk to and engage with anyone he wanted. He inspired others. He accepted people. He had high emotional intelligence. You could tell just by looking at him that he loved his job. It wasn't just all rhetoric: he actually delivered. People achieved great things under his leadership. People who "shine" like him are unfortunately incredibly rare.

Yes, having good PR skills are important, but these are only half of the story.
The other half is skillful management, hard work, organisation and delivering promises.

I've since met other leaders. They weren't genuine like that man at all. They didn't inspire me. They were all smarmy with a capital "S".
Fake Fake Fake! :(



alba
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09 Jun 2009, 2:44 pm

Exceedingly liberal paraphrase of Jeremiah--

"To be human is to be smarmy."



Shinmizu
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09 Jun 2009, 3:29 pm

Marcia wrote:
Think of Tony Blair.
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are also excellent examples, if you're more familiar with U.S. politics.


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Postperson
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09 Jun 2009, 4:10 pm

In some instances it's a form of parasitism. In order to attach oneself parasitically to another, one is required to smarm.

Strange as it may seem I have had people try to get all smarmy with me, as though I was a host and a parasite had understood the polite way to attach to the host is through smarminess. I just don't have the same social dictionary, saw it as parasitic and did the usual parasite removal stuff.



alba
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09 Jun 2009, 4:29 pm

Postperson wrote:
In some instances it's a form of parasitism. In order to attach oneself parasitically to another, one is required to smarm.

:lmao:



alba
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09 Jun 2009, 4:36 pm

Greentea wrote:
This looks like an interesting thread. I wish I knew what smarminess was so I could participate :(


Refusing to smarm [or simply not knowing what it is]-- could be considered grounds for dismissal.



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09 Jun 2009, 4:56 pm

I just like typing the word "smarmy." :D


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marshall
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09 Jun 2009, 5:14 pm

Shinmizu wrote:
Marcia wrote:
Think of Tony Blair.
Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are also excellent examples, if you're more familiar with U.S. politics.


I think it would be a fun activity to rate various politicians on a scale of 1-10 for smarminess.

Tony Blair - 8
Bill Clinton - 10
Ronald Reagan - 10+
Barack Obama - 7
Bush Sr. - 4
Bush Jr. - 8 (definitely annoying enough to be a 10 but a little too openly belligerent to be considered 100% smarmy)



marshall
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09 Jun 2009, 5:28 pm

AmberEyes wrote:
No.

I think that they consider social confidence, genuineness and friendliness to be positive traits.

These aren't the same as smarminess.
People are fickle and will complain and protest if a leader doesn't deliver (in a Democratic Government anyway).

The people ask:

"Is this leader interested in me and my problems?"
"Does this leader care about the people?"
"Do I agree with his/her policies?"


I have been lucky to meet someone who genuinely believed in his cause and was a fantastic leader. He genuinely helped and cared about people. He could talk to and engage with anyone he wanted. He inspired others. He accepted people. He had high emotional intelligence. You could tell just by looking at him that he loved his job. It wasn't just all rhetoric: he actually delivered. People achieved great things under his leadership. People who "shine" like him are unfortunately incredibly rare.

Yes, having good PR skills are important, but these are only half of the story.
The other half is skillful management, hard work, organisation and delivering promises.

I've since met other leaders. They weren't genuine like that man at all. They didn't inspire me. They were all smarmy with a capital "S".
Fake Fake Fake! :(


What! This thread is supposed to be about bashing politicians. Traitor!

Just kidding. Honest, non-smarmy leaders do exist but their relative rarity still baffles me.



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09 Jun 2009, 6:07 pm

marshall wrote:
Can anyone think of a head of state that wasn't smarmy?

Helen-Clark?



Marcia
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09 Jun 2009, 6:14 pm

I wouldn't say Obama was smarmy, and Dubya just came across as stupid.

I'm in Scotland, so those in the US would have more exposure to these guys and may have a different impression.

It seems from recent Youtube videos that they're been trying to make Gordon Brown smarm, but he just can't do it. Someone behind the camera must be holding up a sign that says, "Smile now, Gordon!" and it just looks faked and freaky.



marshall
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09 Jun 2009, 6:41 pm

Marcia wrote:
I wouldn't say Obama was smarmy, and Dubya just came across as stupid.

I think Obama is a smart guy compared to most politicians but he isn't really that genuine IMO. He has sincere intentions but he says whatever he has to politically.

Dubya had that fake-chumminess. Perhaps it's a different category from smarmy but it all goes together in my mind. Some might say he wasn't smart enough to truly fit the definition of smarmy.



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09 Jun 2009, 8:11 pm

marshall wrote:
Does anyone else feel that this is the case?

I'm completely serious. This is something I don't understand about human nature.


I don't think it is wise to generalize on this. Some folks are smarmy and some are not. In fact, most are not.

ruveyn



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09 Jun 2009, 9:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
Does anyone else feel that this is the case?

I'm completely serious. This is something I don't understand about human nature.


I don't think it is wise to generalize on this. Some folks are smarmy and some are not. In fact, most are not.


I never claimed that most people are smarmy. However, I think smarminess and fakeness are more highly represented in leadership roles than in the general population. I think as a general rule phony people find political success more easily than brutally honest people. It would be nice to be proven wrong but I believe my observation is unfortunately correct.



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10 Jun 2009, 6:00 am

If you haven't seen International Sales Presidents in the corporate world, you ain't seen nothing yet. See my thread about it from last week, about the Vice President of Sales.


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