Page 1 of 3 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Padium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,369

19 Jun 2009, 8:29 am

So, I have a theory as to why the rates of being queer are higher in the autistic community than the neurotypical community. Basically, we ASDers are all social devients, we do not recognize the social consequences of things as easily, and are more willing to be ourselves despite the consequences. This means that if we were queer, we would be less likely to be closeted about it. It would still be underreported because there will still be some who would prefer to be closeted their whole life, but there would be less people who choose this route. The rates of being queer in the autistic community I believe to be exactly the same as in the NT community, the difference in rates comes with NTs caring more about the social consequences, and being less likely to come out as such. I thin it is probably accurate, but I could be totally wrong too. What do you think?



Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Age: 25
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,067

19 Jun 2009, 8:36 am

Social effects can hit in other ways. Males with autism are less likely to do 'male' stuff, and develop a male identity. Females might be told they have a male brain, which can also have an effect.



Padium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,369

19 Jun 2009, 8:44 am

Magneto wrote:
Social effects can hit in other ways. Males with autism are less likely to do 'male' stuff, and develop a male identity. Females might be told they have a male brain, which can also have an effect.


And for those of us who were never told anything about it?

I am transsexual myself, born a guy, never felt like one, and living female now. That still falls under queer though, which is believed to be an inborn trait, and research is getting close to proving it an inborn trait. My theory is that more people who are autistic are willing to come out as queer when they are than those who are NT.



Maggiedoll
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,126
Location: Maryland

19 Jun 2009, 8:47 am

Padium wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Social effects can hit in other ways. Males with autism are less likely to do 'male' stuff, and develop a male identity. Females might be told they have a male brain, which can also have an effect.


And for those of us who were never told anything about it?

I am transsexual myself, born a guy, never felt like one, and living female now. That still falls under queer though, which is believed to be an inborn trait, and research is getting close to proving it an inborn trait. My theory is that more people who are autistic are willing to come out as queer when they are than those who are NT.


My parents very consciously didn't treat me any differently than they would have if I were a boy. When asked if he wanted a boy or a girl while my mom was pregnant with me, my dad said "Yes."

As it is, I just don't find ability to shoot and ability to bake to be mutually exclusive..



Padium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,369

19 Jun 2009, 8:52 am

Maggiedoll wrote:
As it is, I just don't find ability to shoot and ability to bake to be mutually exclusive..


Since when does that have anything to do with gender??? If we based my gender on stereotypes I would still be living as a male, as I do more things that are stereotypically thought of as male (how many stereotypical girls do you know who are into metal, RTS video games, mischief, etc). A few things that don't follow stereotypes have nothing to do with gender identity.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,508
Location: x

19 Jun 2009, 8:57 am

[quote="Padium My theory is that more people who are autistic are willing to come out as queer when they are than those who are NT.[/quote]


That sounds like a very plausible theory.



Maggiedoll
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,126
Location: Maryland

19 Jun 2009, 9:10 am

Padium wrote:
Maggiedoll wrote:
As it is, I just don't find ability to shoot and ability to bake to be mutually exclusive..


Since when does that have anything to do with gender??? If we based my gender on stereotypes I would still be living as a male, as I do more things that are stereotypically thought of as male (how many stereotypical girls do you know who are into metal, RTS video games, mischief, etc). A few things that don't follow stereotypes have nothing to do with gender identity.


'Zactly.. I thought your point was that NTs might find that paradoxical.. A girl isn't supposed to be able to appreciate a 12-gauge.. so they say..

Problem is that in a lot of things, I actually am kinda girly.. but really, it's not just cause I'm SUPPOSED to be..



Irvy
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 154

19 Jun 2009, 9:45 am

Personally I think it could be more that we tend to care less about social constraints and norms, and go with what feels right inside ourselves, since the outside world makes little sense to us most of the time anyway!



Padium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,369

19 Jun 2009, 9:50 am

Irvy wrote:
Personally I think it could be more that we tend to care less about social constraints and norms, and go with what feels right inside ourselves, since the outside world makes little sense to us most of the time anyway!


Which is exactly what I said, just in different words.



fiddlerpianist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,821
Location: The Autistic Hinterlands

19 Jun 2009, 10:17 am

Padium, I totally agree that this is at least a factor. I believe this effect can be seen quite a bit, actually. For instance, it is generally agreed that the majority of male knitters (at least in this country) are gay. Does this mean that knitting is inherently a more "female" activity? Not in the least. It simply means that gay men are less likely to conform to what's considered to be acceptable male activities and therefore less likely to be fettered them. It's been speculated that, if there weren't a persistent stereotype that knitting is "women's work," a great number of men would take up the hobby as it very much appeals to the "male brain."

Along with that, though, there may be other factors. It's quite possible that if our brains work somewhat differently, we simply have different priorities and drives. There's probably a larger number of people who identify as asexual in the autistic community as well, possibly for that reason. Sexuality is a massively complex issue, though, and there is never really one answer.

Magneto wrote:
Social effects can hit in other ways. Males with autism are less likely to do 'male' stuff, and develop a male identity. Females might be told they have a male brain, which can also have an effect.

I actually don't care for the term "male brain." When Baron-Cohen describes AS as "an extreme form of the male brain" it simply means that it's similar to the way an NT male thinks. Even though gender has nothing to do with it, people assume that it does. There has to be a better term for it (but I can't think of one).


_________________
"That leap of logic should have broken his legs." - Janissy


Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Age: 25
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,067

19 Jun 2009, 11:09 am

I wasn' saying your brain determines your gender identity. I was actually saying being told you have a male brain might cause a girl to think she is more male.



ikorack
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,870

19 Jun 2009, 11:14 am

Padium wrote:
So, I have a theory as to why the rates of being queer are higher in the autistic community than the neurotypical community. Basically, we ASDers are all social devients, we do not recognize the social consequences of things as easily, and are more willing to be ourselves despite the consequences. This means that if we were queer, we would be less likely to be closeted about it. It would still be underreported because there will still be some who would prefer to be closeted their whole life, but there would be less people who choose this route. The rates of being queer in the autistic community I believe to be exactly the same as in the NT community, the difference in rates comes with NTs caring more about the social consequences, and being less likely to come out as such. I thin it is probably accurate, but I could be totally wrong too. What do you think?


When was this proven? Links please.



Fedaykin
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 405
Location: Sundsvall, Sweden

19 Jun 2009, 11:20 am

I think several factors can contribute to make an AS person adopt an LGBT identity:

* Harder to interact with the opposite sex. A male might not know how to attract a female, and a female might be uncomfortable with the typical male attention. By contrast, in an LGBT setting, I suppose anything goes and that they don't care as much about established roles, it's more about what fits the individuals in question. How many of us AS'ers are comfortable with big weddings, bachelor parties etc, and everything that's expected in a normal relationship?

* We don't imitate other people, hence relationships "just because you're supposed to" are less likely.

* The natural tendency to reject what other people are doing and find something meaningful in the complete opposite, sexual rebellion.

* Knowing you're different but not knowing in what way, then you figure out that maybe you're a homosexual and that that explains it all while it's really AS that does.

I've seen plenty of LGBT people that are socially clueless, obvious AS cases. It wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of this community is actually AS'ers who haven't been able to fit into society any other way.

I'm a man that's not attracted at all to other men, but I could definitely see the convenience in adopting an LGBT lifestyle to at least have some needs met. I've read other people on the spectrum think the same way too. Not that I would though, it's just that I can relate to the choices that these people must have made.



ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,249
Location: No Mans Land

19 Jun 2009, 11:25 am

I'm not so sure because so many of us tend to hide our 'selves' and keep our real natures hidden much more than NT's. There is a strong correlation introversion and AS, and the most visibly open gays (for example, it could be any minority), would tend to be extroverted, wouldn't they?

We've had threads about people hiding their special interests, not wanting to reveal them to others. And there are many of us diagnosed who have told virtually nobody, we keep it to ourselves.

The basic cause of the anxieties in many of us is that we generally do NOT express ourselves as we really are, for whatever reason, possibly traceable to being bullied as children. A stereotypical NT would have no such fears as they know that their whole being is towards herd centre.


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


CyclopsSummers
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,307
Location: The Netherlands

19 Jun 2009, 11:31 am

I think this makes much sense, but an important factor would be the level of self-acceptance as well: someone who has always embraced their own autism and has been either fortunate enough to not have had hassles in their home environment, or brushed off any of it if they'd encounter it, would be open about their sexuality, if they were gay/bi.

On the other hand, someone growing up under a stifling, conservative upbringing, having experienced suppression and denial of their autism by their parents, and who would also be gay or bi, may well end up as a closet case with self-loathing homophobia as is often seen in non-autistics as well.


_________________
clarity of thought before rashness of action