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orangesun
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21 Jun 2009, 11:14 am

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum, ive been reading all this stuff recently and i decided it was time to join up.
Well, the situation is i am very much in love with my girlfriend who happens to have AS. we have been going out for nearly six months now, and yet things have been rough at times, the whole relationship has been very rewarding to this time. we've gotten along very well, and last 3 weeks ago she expressed to me how even if we did break up, she would always want to be there for me for the rest of our lives. although we are both quite young (she is nearly 16, and im 17) we have very mature and rich conversations about what we feel. recently i opened up to her about my feelings, and she understood every word of what i said what i had said, and i get along very well with her family and they accept me.

anyway to the point.
i know this is a very blunt question, but i was just wondering if any of you know what goes on in the mind of an AS l during a relationship. i was wondering if aspies know what love is or if they can be in love with someone else, or if they see love a different way NT's do. and also if aspies can distinguish love from lust at this stage.

Im asking this because I want to know more about how my gf might see things because i have tried asking her these things, but it was too hard to find an answer.

i am still not sure if shes with me because im the first guy that chose her, or if its because we really do have a connection, or if she finds a more attractive guy she will lost interest in me

thanks
orangesun



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21 Jun 2009, 11:48 am

orangesun,

Ask your girlfriend if she would prefer that instead of you asking her directly (as in a conversation), if she would prefer you to write everything down instead and give her a letter / e-mail her all the stuff you would like to know (as it affects your relationship, of course, not trivial stuff that she can easily answer).

I think most aspies take longer to formulate answers in their heads when it comes to the serious topics and there's information overload and maybe that's why they just go quiet. I know with my ex-husband (who's an aspie), he said that it's either he didn't want to give the "wrong" answer or it would all sound like the Jeopardy show theme in his head. He was able to answer better by e-mail, but also be prepared to not get much of answer even at that! But it's better than silence.

I haven't read any of the books below, but you might want to check them out. The woman is NT and the man has Asperger's Syndrome.

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Sex-Long-Term-Relationships-Asperger/dp/1843106051/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245601892&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Asperger-Syndrome-Story-Keith-Newton/dp/1843105403/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

What I'll say now might be hard to remember when you're feeling insecure... but do not take things personally if your girlfriend says something hurtful to you. You can bring it up later with her using the letter-writing suggestion above, but knowing this "not taking things personally" trick will save you a lot of headache and heartache from now on.

However, only you will know how much you can take and where your limits lie.

Good luck. It's great to see that you're trying to understand her and work on your relationship.



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21 Jun 2009, 12:11 pm

orangesun: The two most characteristic features of people with Asperger's are:

1) They are unable to interpret social cues and mimickry at levels depending on grade of autism.
2) They fixate to single topics at any one time and have great difficulties multitasking several ideas at once. This has an added bonus effect of creating genial level depths within specific topics, but with little or no breadth or horizons.

They are not emotionless, but quite the opposite. The problem is that they can't (or won't easily) convey their feelings to other people, because they are unable to decipher the visual feedback - rendering their initial expression useless.

This again means they are completely dependant on vocal confirmations. In other words, you need to share your feelings toward her by explicitly telling her. Be direct, blunt and always completely honest. Autists (generally) have an incredibly well developed sense of deducing topics into logical categories. Any lie is extremely vulnerable to be noticed because they are hard to fit into the rest of their logical systems.


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21 Jun 2009, 12:22 pm

One thing to remember is that a lot of the social rules that are normally associated with women do not apply... Aspies interpret words literally: If she says she's "fine", she may actually mean it (as opposed to the NT definition of "fine", which is often the antithesis of such)...

The letter-writing idea is good (but do ask her directly if that's a better way for her to understand what you're trying to say)... but most importantly, if you ask her a question, allow her some time to think about her answer... sometimes she may answer immediately, but other times she may need to think (even if it seems like an easy question to answer)...

If you have a grievance with her for any reason, it's best to talk to her directly, provide your reasoning for why you see it as an issue, and most importantly do not become upset in the process... this will allow her to understand your point of view on something...

Don't expect her to use much subtlety... unless an aspie has been able to successfully "learn" socialization, body language is often not employed to the degree of NT usage... By the same token, don't think that your own subtle gestures will even be seen by her... if you do something like get her a card or present on her birthday, try to explain to her that this is representative of your affection... also, since aspies don't internally understand the gift-giving process unless it's explained to them, if she seems aloof to any gifts you give her, try to teach her the process as she probably doesn't realize it exists...



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21 Jun 2009, 1:11 pm

orangesun, about these thing you ask, it's difficult to answer as the answer depends on where she is on the spectrum. I can say that I understand the difference between lust and love my boyfriend (also has AS) also understands the difference between the two. I know with me, when I love I get very protective of the person/other creature that I love, each person/creature that I love is loved differently.

I'd say the fact that she wants to be in your life and wants to stay in it for the rest of your lives is an indicator of how she feels. This kind of statement doesn't come from nowhere, it really means something. NT's may say stuff and could be meant at the time and six months later it could change and not be said, not so with most Aspies and if it does it is said when it does actually change. Though do remember this is from my own experience from my insides.

Though, it could be, that she might not know the names of the feelings that she feels. I had only vague ideas of how I felt until I was about 22/23, I mean that I felt how I felt but could not explain more than good or bad until that age, I knew the emotion words but didn't know how to match them to myself. Perhaps asking her if being around you makes her feel good would give you a better answer if this is the case for her as well?

Hope this helps. :)



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21 Jun 2009, 1:32 pm

I say if you want her to know something, be direct with her about it. My last gf said that I never got any hints she was going on about and if even when she told me what some of those hints were they didn't seem like hints to me. That might be one of the reasons why we broke up.



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21 Jun 2009, 1:37 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

If you have a grievance with her for any reason, it's best to talk to her directly, provide your reasoning for why you see it as an issue, and most importantly do not become upset in the process... this will allow her to understand your point of view on something...



But don't expect her to get it right away. This is just me, but I like things the way I like them and I see things the way I see them. It takes me a bit to come around to another person's perspective -- like twenty-four hours or more -- if it's one that I haven't already considered and worked out in my head. I work very hard to be completely fair about things and try to consider all possible sides of a situation and it can throw me for a loop if one is brought up that I haven't considered. I'll reject it first, then mull it over and reconsider.

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orangesun
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22 Jun 2009, 11:25 pm

Thanks everyone for your input in all of this.

I know what u mean by not taking everything hurtful she says seriously, shes said a few things before that have hurt me a bit, she implied that i was ugly hehe and once she said that i was the sort of guy that was easily to take advantage of. i was like mega shocked, but i didnt leave her and gave her a chance to explain because i loved her so much and she explained to me that aspergers usually does that sorts of things.

well, i am very open to her with my feelings and i do all i can to be sweet to her, like flowers and stuff (hehe, whenever i give her flowers she just stands there looking down hehe i dont know but i find it cute). but sometimes when i say things such as "u mean the world to me" and "i miss you" and "ur a really great girl" she replies with things like "ull live" "ull be fine" "its only a few days ur we're gone"
i used to be really shattered because it gave me the impression she didnt feel the same way, but ive accepted it now basically.

but anyway, my point is, im not sure if she feels love for me. because she is a bit young, and reading over a few forum discussions on this site, im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me. she has stated that she knows what love is and that she is more developed in love compared to her friends, but im not sure.
ive tried asking her these things - like why she loves me and how am i different to other people, and yeah she sort of gave a cloudy answer. and sometimes when i try to talk about our relationship and stuff, the convo usually goes off in a tangent and she ends up talking about something else.

but i dont know, i just need a bit more help and discussion guys, because i love my gf very much, and i would do absolutely anything for her, i wouldnt even mind spending forever with her (i know we're just young, but thats what i feel) .
but im not sure if she sees things the same way i do, im not sure if she is just taking me as "a typical boyfriend which ill have many more in her life" or if she sees me as a "special person that means alot to her" im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me.

btw she hasnt had any bfs before. although she says i am one of the people she trusts the most in this world (on her mysapce)

and i know i cant really ask u to tell me what she is feeling, but i just want some advice on all of this and ur opinions and all.


thanks in advance for all your words.
orange sun.



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22 Jun 2009, 11:55 pm

orangesun wrote:
I know what u mean by not taking everything hurtful she says seriously, shes said a few things before that have hurt me a bit, she implied that i was ugly hehe and once she said that i was the sort of guy that was easily to take advantage of. i was like mega shocked, but i didnt leave her and gave her a chance to explain because i loved her so much and she explained to me that aspergers usually does that sorts of things.
If something she says sounds mean, by all means tell her... she should be able to remember and try to not say something like that again (or at least make an effort to that effect)... Over time, you can help her understand what is acceptable in NT society and what isn't... Don't be angry with her for the faux pas, but be helpful and explanatory... However, if she doesn't make any effort after something is explained to her, it's just disrespectful on her part... AS doesn't excuse everything, you know...

Quote:
well, i am very open to her with my feelings and i do all i can to be sweet to her, like flowers and stuff (hehe, whenever i give her flowers she just stands there looking down hehe i dont know but i find it cute). but sometimes when i say things such as "u mean the world to me" and "i miss you" and "ur a really great girl" she replies with things like "ull live" "ull be fine" "its only a few days ur we're gone"
i used to be really shattered because it gave me the impression she didnt feel the same way, but ive accepted it now basically.

That's something you can teach her... she can learn that you're making a statement of endearment and at least offer a "thank you" to it... although at some point you're going to have to pull her aside and explain all this to her so she understands...

Quote:
but anyway, my point is, im not sure if she feels love for me. because she is a bit young, and reading over a few forum discussions on this site, im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me. she has stated that she knows what love is and that she is more developed in love compared to her friends, but im not sure.
ive tried asking her these things - like why she loves me and how am i different to other people, and yeah she sort of gave a cloudy answer. and sometimes when i try to talk about our relationship and stuff, the convo usually goes off in a tangent and she ends up talking about something else.

She probably feels love, in her own way... one thing that aspies translate love into is unwavering loyalty... if she wants to stay with you through everything, she looooooooooooooves you...

Quote:
but i dont know, i just need a bit more help and discussion guys, because i love my gf very much, and i would do absolutely anything for her, i wouldnt even mind spending forever with her (i know we're just young, but thats what i feel) .

You have a quality of spirit not seen in most men even 5-10 years older than you... I think you'll do fine...

Quote:
but im not sure if she sees things the same way i do, im not sure if she is just taking me as "a typical boyfriend which ill have many more in her life" or if she sees me as a "special person that means alot to her" im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me.

If she hasn't had a bf before, you aren't "just another bf"... trust me...



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23 Jun 2009, 12:04 am

Quote:
i was wondering if aspies know what love is or if they can be in love with someone else, or if they see love a different way NT's do. and also if aspies can distinguish love from lust at this stage.

It depends on the person, many people with aspergers are highly emotional people, they just do not know how to show it. I myself an emotionally void, love is an [i]ideal[/] and not an emotion for me. I will say however, that most people with aspergers are not lustful and even the lustful ones are loyal.

Quote:
i am still not sure if shes with me because im the first guy that chose her, or if its because we really do have a connection, or if she finds a more attractive guy she will lost interest in me

If you have this concern, just ask her. People with aspergers are usually very honest and will just answer you with a straight up answer.



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23 Jun 2009, 12:18 am

orangesun wrote:
Thanks everyone for your input in all of this.

I know what u mean by not taking everything hurtful she says seriously, shes said a few things before that have hurt me a bit, she implied that i was ugly hehe and once she said that i was the sort of guy that was easily to take advantage of. i was like mega shocked, but i didnt leave her and gave her a chance to explain because i loved her so much and she explained to me that aspergers usually does that sorts of things.

well, i am very open to her with my feelings and i do all i can to be sweet to her, like flowers and stuff (hehe, whenever i give her flowers she just stands there looking down hehe i dont know but i find it cute). but sometimes when i say things such as "u mean the world to me" and "i miss you" and "ur a really great girl" she replies with things like "ull live" "ull be fine" "its only a few days ur we're gone"
i used to be really shattered because it gave me the impression she didnt feel the same way, but ive accepted it now basically.

but anyway, my point is, im not sure if she feels love for me. because she is a bit young, and reading over a few forum discussions on this site, im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me. she has stated that she knows what love is and that she is more developed in love compared to her friends, but im not sure.
ive tried asking her these things - like why she loves me and how am i different to other people, and yeah she sort of gave a cloudy answer. and sometimes when i try to talk about our relationship and stuff, the convo usually goes off in a tangent and she ends up talking about something else.

but i dont know, i just need a bit more help and discussion guys, because i love my gf very much, and i would do absolutely anything for her, i wouldnt even mind spending forever with her (i know we're just young, but thats what i feel) .
but im not sure if she sees things the same way i do, im not sure if she is just taking me as "a typical boyfriend which ill have many more in her life" or if she sees me as a "special person that means alot to her" im not sure if she is developed enough to feel love for me.

btw she hasnt had any bfs before. although she says i am one of the people she trusts the most in this world (on her mysapce)

and i know i cant really ask u to tell me what she is feeling, but i just want some advice on all of this and ur opinions and all.


thanks in advance for all your words.
orange sun.


Saying blunt things, and "you'll be fine" is the sort of thing I do with the people I love deeply. I think very literally, and don't understand "coddling" sort of behaviour that NT's engage in (like pouting and gushing and some of that sort of stuff) - sometimes I can be blunt to the point of sounding very cold, but it just "sounds" like that to an NT, who will read a secondary layer of meaning that isn't there in my interactions. Of course everything depends on the individual, but I do know what love is, and I act in a similar way. In fact, I think that I often love more deeply than other people when I do fall in love with someone. When you say that she is vague about what exactly it is she likes about you, that is an aspie characteristic too - not that she doesn't like you, but aspies have trouble conveying feelings into words.

Aspies can be very devoted (I have read many posts on WP about aspies becoming attached to one person very strongly and being unable to move on) - I know that when I am in love I am faithful to that person always, and I generally love one person intensely for years - I don't fall in and out of love easily.

Of course, every person is different and an individual, but if an aspie is in a relationship with you then they probably love you deeply to be prepared to give up their alone time to be with you, and aspies tend to have a very strong sense of morals and loyalty in that sense.

Sorry if this does sound a bit one sided - but to me it seems you have only heard the other side.


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23 Jun 2009, 12:25 am

orangesun wrote:
... i know i cant really ask u to tell me what she is feeling, but i just want some advice on all of this and ur opinions and all.


Simple: trust her. If she tells you she loves you, she does. It just may not be displayed in the ways with which you are familiar. Don't expect too many spontaneous bursts of affection. If you need something from her, don't hesitate to ask, but be willing to work with what she can and can't do.

Regards,

Patricia



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27 Jun 2009, 8:21 pm

Hey there!

I'm an NT, but my bf has AS. We've been dating for a year. I'm 15, he's 16.

I totally understand your expericences in having rich, meaningful conversations about things: life, love, politics *lol*

From my understanding so far, it is quite easy for him to tell the difference between love and lust. We often remind each other of why we love each other, the reasons behind it, and thoroughly explain the difference between our feelings of love vs. lust. He is very true in his feelings, and I'll be honest... there are times where he's aroused, but he never ever forgets his love for me, nor I for him. He has a deep understanding of what love is, as opposed to lust. I believe your girlfriend will know too. Have a serious conversation with her about it. It's best to get your thoughts and opinions on the table, so that no confusion ensues, just in case.

I'm glad things are working out so well! Welcome to the network, and I hope you have a lovely day. If you ever feel like talking to me again, send me a private message. I'd love to keep talking to you in case I have questions about your situation vs. mine, or vise versa. ^^ :D


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hopelessaspielover
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27 Jun 2009, 8:36 pm

*I just realized you posted more on the forum*

Don't harass her repeatedly if you truly want to know. She may get over stimulated and become secluded. Give her time. I'm almost certain she hasn't forgotten that you wish to know her opinion on her love for you. If she doens't talk to you about it in a while, maybe lightly propose the question again.

Whenever you do end up having this conversation, you really need to have a serious sit down, all feelings on the table. Be blunt, because she won't recongnize subtle hints. Don't hide anything. Show your true feelings, she'll really appreiciate it. *this is from my experience with my AS bf*. Ask her what she thinks love is, if she feels anything of that towards you. Tell her your thoughts on it, what you believe love is, tell her yoru feelings towards her, and ask her if she feels anything like that.

Aspies love reassurance and a positive attitude. I always get the same answers you do to the "I miss you"'s, and the "I'd be torn in half if you died" type of things. He always says "You'd be better off without me anyways", and "You'd be happy then", but you have to be sure that you can commit to the optimism. They need that. So be really welcoming if she mentions any part of her opinions. Be grateful she talks to you about it. Show your happiness in her response to your questions, and she'll feel she's done something right.

Be there for her. If she feels that her opinion is different, you should still show positive reinforcement. Never say "that's wrong" or shoot her down. Show happiness at her response, and if it's not the answer you want, then you both need to talk that out, discuss possible middle grounds on it. Don't make her feel bad for who she is and what she feels.


I wish you luck in your quest for an answer, and I still hope you have a lovely day. ^^ Again, P.M. me if you'd like to keep talking!


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orangesun
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02 Jul 2009, 12:05 am

hey guys

by the way, i thankyou all very very much for your replies, i have read them over and over and tried to apply myself to what u guys (and girls) have said.
so i thankyou.

but

im back again
and i must say these past few weeks have been the worst part of our relationship ever.

i dont know, but i feel so alone somehow. from the relationship starting off with alot of good vibes, it seems like i am no longer a part of her life (well not as i used to)

ill keep it short: but it feels like she is no longer interested in me anymore - but im not 100% sure, but it has given me an icky feeling. we havent been seen each other for 2 weeks, but we will in a day or 2 since its our biannual
but it seems like shes doing very fine without seeing me, she catches up with her friends but hasnt really asked me to catch up. she seems to be happy and recently she has taken ages to reply to my online stuff. she never wants to call me anymore (well she never calls me), and i have asked many times if she would mind me calling her and shes said "no, later" - but there never is a later. i mean fair enough if we had just seen each other, but its been 2 weeks since we've caught up (and mind you its been the longest 2 weeks ever)

and in a recent message - i ended with i love you (and a very long message saying how much she means to me and how i will love her forever)and she just said, im not gonna say the same thing back because itll sound uncool. i was heartbroken and confused, because i had the feeling that she didnt feel the same way (well not anymore), im not sure if she actually means that or there is an implied meaning to it.

recently ive been picking a few arguements because of my frustration, i questioned her and asked if she can show a bit more affection (thru compliments - i havent gotten one from her yet) and maybe say nicer things. she said she had her own way of showing things. but this confused me, its these sort of things which really crunch my heart because i just want to be "loved". shes also been talking to me less and getting off earlier, and whenever she has been talking to me online, she has been sidetracked.

please talk with me guys, this past 2 weeks ive been very depressed and its given me a gut wrenching feeling, i love her, but it seems like she doesnt need me as much anymore and she could be on top of the world even without me. what goes through the mind of an AS at this point?



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02 Jul 2009, 12:40 am

I can't speak for her, but it sounds to me like you got too clingy. I had to let someone go recently because he got clingy -- I told him I was only interested in a casual relationship, but he kept talking about how much we have in common and whether or not our cats would get along... um, no. In your case, she was interested in something more long-term, so she may just need a break for a bit. Just remember, none of this is personal or intended to hurt you. She's just having to take care of herself right now, that's all.

One thing: I cringed when I read the bit about the long email you sent to her. Don't write any more long emotional emails; I would find that very stressful and would be less likely to want to resume contact any time soon. I don't like to feel pushed or prodded and I imagine your girlfriend feels the same. I'm sorry you feel alone, but you're going to have to learn to find your emotional support on your own. Just give her some space and time right now and don't make her feel like she has to justify herself or her needs when she's ready to resume contact.

Regards,

Patricia