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Sand
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29 Jun 2009, 10:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
JetLag wrote:
Sometimes when I walk in the woods during the day or look toward a distant galaxy in the night, I frequently stand back in awe not only of the beauty that God has made but also of the great intellect behind that beauty.


On what evidence do you attribute all the Wow! to God? Which God, god or gods. Zeus? Jove? Oden? Yaweh? On what evidence do you infer design. You see the dots, then you connect them and then you conclude there is a pattern, but it is you who connected the dots.

ruveyn


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Magnus
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29 Jun 2009, 11:11 pm

Hermetic alchemy is cool. It incorporates science as far as we know. But, it also includes our inner experience as being as important as all that.


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AtomicKaiju
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30 Jun 2009, 2:26 am

When it comes to nature, I have to be in a certain mode to appreciate it. I can't just go out and look at a tree or a mountain and say "Wow, nature is very beautiful." Maybe that's because were I live, there are nothing but trees and mountains, and I kind of get a little sick of it. Although I think full moons are beautiful, I have to be in a special mood to appreciate them as well. I guess I'm just not a "nature" person, and that's probably why I get so excited when I get to go to town. My brother is always telling me to connect myself to nature more often, but that irritates me more than it helps.



JetLag
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30 Jun 2009, 5:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
JetLag wrote:
Sometimes when I walk in the woods during the day or look toward a distant galaxy in the night, I frequently stand back in awe not only of the beauty that God has made but also of the great intellect behind that beauty.


On what evidence do you attribute all the Wow! to God? Which God, god or gods. Zeus? Jove? Oden? Yaweh? On what evidence do you infer design. You see the dots, then you connect them and then you conclude there is a pattern, but it is you who connected the dots.

ruveyn


God of the Bible. Sorry for the vagueness.

If I'm taking a walk in the woods and I find a watch on the ground, I will automatically conclude that that watch is diffidently designed, whether or not I see the designer. And because I believe that this watch is a designed object, which could not possibly have made itself, I can logically infer that this watch has a maker.

Therefore, when I observe the complexity of the universe, which obviously consists of a more complex design than a human-made watch, I think it's quite reasonable to infer that it has a maker as well.


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Henriksson
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30 Jun 2009, 6:21 pm

JetLag wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
JetLag wrote:
Sometimes when I walk in the woods during the day or look toward a distant galaxy in the night, I frequently stand back in awe not only of the beauty that God has made but also of the great intellect behind that beauty.


On what evidence do you attribute all the Wow! to God? Which God, god or gods. Zeus? Jove? Oden? Yaweh? On what evidence do you infer design. You see the dots, then you connect them and then you conclude there is a pattern, but it is you who connected the dots.

ruveyn


God of the Bible. Sorry for the vagueness.

If I'm taking a walk in the woods and I find a watch on the ground, I will automatically conclude that that watch is diffidently designed, whether or not I see the designer. And because I believe that this watch is a designed object, which could not possibly have made itself, I can logically infer that this watch has a maker.

Therefore, when I observe the complexity of the universe, which obviously consists of a more complex design than a human-made watch, I think it's quite reasonable to infer that it has a maker as well.

Your personal incredulousness does not constitute an argument, 'Paley'.

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The Argument From Design states that the universe is so complex that it requires a designer, like a watch requires a watchmaker. It's just another argument from ignorance.

Many people think that the world looks like it was designed (and by their god, to boot). Of course, the sun also looks like it goes around the Earth. It is only thru science that we know that both of these perceptions are wrong.

To explain the complexity of the universe and life, all we need are the properties of self-organization and emergence that arise out of complex adaptive systems. Stars, galaxies and planets have come into being as the universe has slowly increased in complexity over time — from the simplicity of the Big Bang. Biology and paleontology have shown that life has also slowly grown in complexity over time — dependent only on the the rules of physics and chemistry. No god was necessary.


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ruveyn
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30 Jun 2009, 6:49 pm

JetLag wrote:

If I'm taking a walk in the woods and I find a watch on the ground, I will automatically conclude that that watch is diffidently designed, whether or not I see the designer. And because I believe that this watch is a designed object, which could not possibly have made itself, I can logically infer that this watch has a maker.



Reverend Paley's crap again. You see order in nature because you put it there in the first place. You see a camera lying on the ground and you think, what kind of a schmuck would lose his camera.

ruveyn



sartresue
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30 Jun 2009, 10:31 pm

Naturally, topic

Trees and clouds. Lethal weapons. I am not surprised. :P


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01 Jul 2009, 1:17 am

I've always felt a deep feeling of peace and connection to nature...not sure how to describe the feeling except of being in awe.

I get an even bigger buzz whenever I garden. Yet the few times I've expressed these thoughts and reflections when outdoors....I get chuckling responses and weird looks like I'm some kind of a tree hugging nut high on weed..... :? :(

Anyway, it's good to hear something I can relate to that has no meaning..just the feelings. I've always thought of myself as a pagan at heart with no particular beliefs except peace, love, and harmony which will never happen. Image


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