AS/NT Hatred
Demon-Chorus
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 196
Location: Theatre of the Absurd (US sector)
It'll help, give it time. It worked for blacks, women and the GLBT community so I'm sure it'll work for us as well. We just need to band together, learn as much as we can and take a no BS stance, call the cheaters by their names. The more you know the stupider they look, they can't destroy social change they can impede it but in the end humanity always triumphs.
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The asylum is run by lunatics.
I couldn't agree more.
But I'm double your age, so I won't live to see it.
I'd give anything to live in a time when Aspies weren't fired as worthless after giving their all to the company and having so many work skills. We're in the Brokeback Mountain era of AS and it's very painful for us who can't take comfort in the hope for the future.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.
It'll help, give it time. It worked for blacks, women and the GLBT community so I'm sure it'll work for us as well. We just need to band together, learn as much as we can and take a no BS stance, call the cheaters by their names. The more you know the stupider they look, they can't destroy social change they can impede it but in the end humanity always triumphs.
We've been fighting against this all our lives...Not much has changed. You say to be patient, but I don't think whatever we've done so far has worked in the slightest. In fact--correct me if I'm wrong--whatever we've been doing is a dismal failure.
We do need to band together. Until someone with leadership potential takes the reins, we're not doing real well with that. We need a leader.......Just who are these cheaters anyway and can you identify them? or give a better description of who we should be looking for?
Your thoughtful comprehensive reply to my rant and inquiries is more than I expected. Not sure I can respond in kind, but willing to give it my best shot.
2: Education: Learn about people, learn about psychology in general, learn about proper debating tactics which doesn't resort to "Word Wizardry" ie. Deceptive BSry and logical fallacies
3: Hold everyone including yourself to the same moral/honourable/lawful standards, this means calling people on their BS, there are times to be nice but there are times when nice doesn't cut it and you have to be blunt, call injustice by it's name.
um....okay.......but how does this help us get our fair share of the economic pie?
Working together is good. Lot of us say that. How do we do it, again, other than posting to WP boards?
Yes I do think they were justified and there anger was justified as well.
What do you mean by "pro-social" activism? If what you mean by "pro-social" is litigation---I'm all for that.
Demon-Chorus
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 196
Location: Theatre of the Absurd (US sector)
I don't think that, there has been some slight advances towards acceptance, but they aren't huge, but you can't expect a huge radical change over night.
What about Alex and the other autistic activists? Are they not leaders? I myself have issues with becoming a leader, what about you? Could you take the reins?
The cheaters are the ones who set up phony "social-rules", rules they don't abide by, haven't you ever heard the phrase "It's all a game"? The cheaters are the deceptive BSers, the ones who play "mind games".
[quote="alba wrote:
I'm advocating that as social activism, you can be yourself and not cheat by forcing the standards the hypocrites put on you but not themselves on them too.
Survival and betraying your soul (to your cause), is it worth it?
I have no answer to this at this moment, if I think of something I will let you know.
How is this accomplished, apply it to the real world.
[quote="alba wrote:
I don't know, but it sure will provoke thought and consideration in the good.
Socio-Political rallies and clubs like any other cause, the civil rights movement did it and the other human rights movements did it.
If you're too blind with rage to think straight it's a problem that opponets will take advantage of.
Psychiatric medication isn't a form of "thought police", it just affects your mood, and I didn't say anything about "drugging" you up. I'm just saying chill down so you can think straight, manic-depressive anger isn't thinking straight, it makes one prone to acting out, I know this by experience.
The civil rights movements did it partially, so why not?
Clowns refers to the pathologically idiotic and self-serving, both political leaders and other.
Ok.
If you don't try you'll never know.
I mean legal activism.
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The asylum is run by lunatics.
Survival and betraying your soul (to your cause), is it worth it?
No. You have to be true to yourself. But when being true to yourself is pitted against your desire to survive in a reasonably acceptable way....which do you choose? I'm squeeking by and not very fond of life on this planet as an aspie. A lot of good aspies and auties have committed suicide because their precious lives became not worth living, according to their actions and experience. If we can't survive with integrity and we can't survive without integrity---where does that leave us? We're backed into a corner and for way too many of us---there's no point.
Socio-Political rallies and clubs like any other cause, the civil rights movement did it and the other human rights movements did it.
Now we're getting somewhere. Researching autism activism is a neglected project of mine. I never seem to have any motivation for doing it. How about you? The socio-political rally is a wonderful idea.
The civil rights movements did it partially, so why not?
How exactly did they accomplish this? Remember blacks and gays are not neurological aliens. They're not disabled. Our best hope, IMO, is to connect up with the rest of the disabled community and push for accommodation.
I mean legal activism.
Agreed. These are some of the best tools at our disposal:
1. Legal activism/research
2. Connecting up with the rest of the disabled community/research
3. Autistic political rallies/someone or some group has to organize them
What do you think?
Demon-Chorus
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 196
Location: Theatre of the Absurd (US sector)
I agree, something should be done.
I'm up to it, right now I have alot of time on my hands so what better way to use that time than to use it pro-actively.
I agree, I also think by helping this cause we may help NTs form a better understanding of not only us, we may also erase some of the primitive social-hierarchies and fake "social" rules that are in one-sided in favor of the bigger BSer. Basically freedom for Aspies/Auties and the disabled has the by-product of freedom for NTs to be themselves as well.
[quote="Alba wrote:
That's a good idea.
1. Legal activism/research
2. Connecting up with the rest of the disabled community/research
3. Autistic political rallies/someone or some group has to organize them
What do you think?
I think it's great as I said in the activism topic, you put it in better more professional termanology than I could.
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The asylum is run by lunatics.
I agree, I also think by helping this cause we may help NTs form a better understanding of not only us, we may also erase some of the primitive social-hierarchies and fake "social" rules that are in one-sided in favor of the bigger BSer. Basically freedom for Aspies/Auties and the disabled has the by-product of freedom for NTs to be themselves as well.
Good point DC.
But I think those of us on the spectrum need to concentrate on helping ourselves. Whatever benefit NTs get out of a potential autism rights victory-- is icing on the cake.
What, in that itisn't the icing you eat the cake for, but it sure makes it look good?
Why can't we just sue the people who call it a disease, and accuse us of lacking emotion, empathy, ToM... I've still got to correct my 'Statement of Speical Needs'. It may have applied then - I can't really rememebr, but I don't think some of it did - but it doesn't now.
I can speak angrily when I want to, or when I can't suppress it any longer. Maybe I could use that...?
Tory_canuck
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Joined: 8 Jun 2009
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Whoever posted the original hateful post needs to pull their head outta their rear end and wake up. Not all NTs are bad.There are a few who are bullies, a few who don't understand and aren't aware of AS, then there are those that are kind and understanding.There are NTs who I like and care about and who care about me, then there are those who have made my life hell.I judge people individually based on how they treat me and judge me.You can't paint a whole group with one brush.
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Honour over deciet, merit over luck, courage over popularity, duty over entitlement...dont let the cliques fool you for they have no honour...only superficial deceit.
ALBERTAN...and DAMN PROUD OF IT!!
Why can't we just sue the people who call it a disease, and accuse us of lacking emotion, empathy, ToM... I've still got to correct my 'Statement of Speical Needs'. It may have applied then - I can't really rememebr, but I don't think some of it did - but it doesn't now.
I can speak angrily when I want to, or when I can't suppress it any longer. Maybe I could use that...?
What if you actually won your suit? What if you succeeded in getting it taken out of the DSM and made it illegal- or at least inadvisable based on your court win- for anybody to come up with any theories about it? What would you have accomplished?
This is what I think you would accomplish. You would set legal precedent for accomodations to be yanked from every AS person who currently has them. Currently, I suspect that all the AS people who have them are children getting accomodations in school- which would be yanked. I can understand a desire to fight for redress and/or accomodations in the workplace. If you won this suit, you would put a mighty huge roadblock in front of that happening. Any fight AS person is currently making for accomodations in the workplace or to redress getting fired would come to a dead halt. And your suit would be used as a legal precedent by the employers.
Demon-Chorus
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 196
Location: Theatre of the Absurd (US sector)
But I think those of us on the spectrum need to concentrate on helping ourselves. Whatever benefit NTs get out of a potential autism rights victory-- is icing on the cake.
Yep, it's a by-product of us helping ourselves. The destruction of the social construct known as "the mask" and "false-self" need to be destroyed, because as you said if we can't be ourselves we live in hell.
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The asylum is run by lunatics.
If you feel the need to mask who you are to fit into a group, then that's your bad. I only associate with people who are understanding of who I am. The list is very short, but I wouldn't trade it for all the people in the world. I'm a lot happier than those that I see that are constantly trying to be accepted by everyone, even if that means being accepted for being someone they're not.
Why can't we all just get on maaaan,
Well, I have for much of my life thought of myself as superior to the average NT. I'm quicker to grasp anything that requires more than a second of thought than most any NT I know, and I also find myself caring more about the quality of other people's lives. I haven't met enough autistics to say whether or not the average autistic is superior to the average NT, though.
One of the main themes of this thread seems to be the anti-aspie nation argument. One of the arguments towards giving Israel to Jewish control was that it was unhealthy, mentally and sociologically, for Jews to be a minority everywhere they went. I think that the same is true for autistics. I think that a small community (not necessarily an aspie nation, but more a small town or city) where autistics were the majority would be helpful not only to our own psyche, but also to show the world that we're not helpless, and it's less our own difficulties, and more the difficulties that are placed upon us that hold us back.
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"Let reason be your only sovereign." ~Wizard's Sixth Rule
I'm working my way up to Attending Crazy Taoist. For now, just call me Dr. Crazy Taoist.
MrLoony,
This is an excellent post, perhaps brilliant. Firstly, comparing an Aspie nation [or town] to the Jewish state of Israel, is one of the best pro arguments amidst a whole slew of con arguments. But you make an even better comment: If aspies/auties were able to form a small town or community and could show the world we're not helpless, that would be quite an amazing accomplishment. And indeed, it would prove a worthwhile point.
Proponents for the Aspie nation or town idea, need to keep turning up these excellent pro arguments, while simultaneously mitigating the con arguments.
For example, a strong con argument is that we are anti-social people attempting to be social, therefore it won't fly. But how about a work-around. How about a half dozen workarounds. For starters: Give each participant/member a quarter acre of land. No one else allowed on their land without the owner's permission. So the obvious con argument following on the heels of that potentially good idea is--where's the land? How do we get the land?
heh....o ye of little faith....remember Kevin Costner's "If you build it, I will come"??......If we show ourselves worthy of making a plan, and have faith, the land will be provided. Initially a core group of people willing to work together needs to form. And they need to decide amongst themselves what they are looking for. There may be offers that could theoretically be turned down due to being unacceptable for such an enterprise.
The secret with this and any endeavor is to think positively and to put a very positive person in charge of the whole enterprise, someone who feels strongly that autism is a gift. For this idea to really take off, an eternal optimist needs to be at the helm. Someone for whom negative ideas and negative thinking just aren't worth bothering with.
heh...that isn't me...but I do know of a WP member who fits that description..
MONKEY
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Joined: 3 Jan 2009
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Posts: 9,896
Location: Stoke, England (sometimes :P)
MrLoony,
This is an excellent post, perhaps brilliant. Firstly, comparing an Aspie nation [or town] to the Jewish state of Israel, is one of the best pro arguments amidst a whole slew of con arguments. But you make an even better comment: If aspies/auties were able to form a small town or community and could show the world we're not helpless, that would be quite an amazing accomplishment. And indeed, it would prove a worthwhile point.
Proponents for the Aspie nation or town idea, need to keep turning up these excellent pro arguments, while simultaneously mitigating the con arguments.
For example, a strong con argument is that we are anti-social people attempting to be social, therefore it won't fly. But how about a work-around. How about a half dozen workarounds. For starters: Give each participant/member a quarter acre of land. No one else allowed on their land without the owner's permission. So the obvious con argument following on the heels of that potentially good idea is--where's the land? How do we get the land?
heh....o ye of little faith....remember Kevin Costner's "If you build it, I will come"??......If we show ourselves worthy of making a plan, and have faith, the land will be provided. Initially a core group of people willing to work together needs to form. And they need to decide amongst themselves what they are looking for. There may be offers that could theoretically be turned down due to being unacceptable for such an enterprise.
The secret with this and any endeavor is to think positively and to put a very positive person in charge of the whole enterprise, someone who feels strongly that autism is a gift. For this idea to really take off, an eternal optimist needs to be at the helm. Someone for whom negative ideas and negative thinking just aren't worth bothering with.
heh...that isn't me...but I do know of a WP member who fits that description..
I couldn't imagine any of this happening, but it is a cool thought. It would be a bizzare place wouldn't it, a whole town with aspies/auties, sounds like a perfect scenario for a sitcom, or a hidden camera/reality TV show, hhmmmm. Anyway, as nice as it sounds, it's ever so slightly unrealistic in my opinion, I get what you mean about the jewish israel, but that's based on a religion, not a type of brain. And with so many aspies/auties having problems with executive dysfunction and socialising, then nothing would get done on time. I just don't see it working personally, but it is a cool thought I'll give you that.
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What film do atheists watch on Christmas?
Coincidence on 34th street.
^^yeah, well, I expressed my honest opinion. It will take faith and an eternal optimist at the helm. But holding a very negative opinion that it will never happen, will certianly not help it to happen. Therefore, just admitting to the possibility is better...your foot in the door, so to speak.
And the eternal optimist says--We're going to make this happen, no matter what it takes! Now that's talking. That kind of an attitude is capable of moving mountains, or convincing the universe to help. And it is highly contagious.
The universe blesses those who have faith in themselves. These are the people who are successful and thriving. When they have an ambition or project, they put effort and organizational skill into it. They throw themselves into it---body, mind and spirit. Plus having done this over and over again, they have plenty of experience. The universe cooperates and gives them what they want. Actually it is very difficult for anyone, or the universe, to stop such people. That's what I mean by an eternal optimist. They create a way where no way existed before. Yay for them.
The aspie community will not come into existence without one of them at the helm. And it would come into existence that much faster with an NT eternal optimist at the helm.
Sometimes I become a little frustrated about NT's, but there are still many great ones out there. There is one aspie I never got along with who was a bit of a bully... perhaps he was just incredibly insecure and hung out with the wrong crowd.
There are many many more NT's in the world, which means most damage is going to be done by them, so yes - lots of NT's scare the hell out of me, and I hate some of them I'd go as far as saying... but not every single NT is in the same bracket at all. There are some amazing people out there, NT or otherwise.
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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle,
and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared.