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See OP.
AS 44%  44%  [ 20 ]
NT 56%  56%  [ 25 ]
Total votes : 45

MONKEY
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04 Jul 2009, 3:46 pm

alba wrote:
MrLoony wrote:
One of the main themes of this thread seems to be the anti-aspie nation argument. One of the arguments towards giving Israel to Jewish control was that it was unhealthy, mentally and sociologically, for Jews to be a minority everywhere they went. I think that the same is true for autistics. I think that a small community (not necessarily an aspie nation, but more a small town or city) where autistics were the majority would be helpful not only to our own psyche, but also to show the world that we're not helpless, and it's less our own difficulties, and more the difficulties that are placed upon us that hold us back.

MrLoony,

This is an excellent post, perhaps brilliant. Firstly, comparing an Aspie nation [or town] to the Jewish state of Israel, is one of the best pro arguments amidst a whole slew of con arguments. But you make an even better comment: If aspies/auties were able to form a small town or community and could show the world we're not helpless, that would be quite an amazing accomplishment. And indeed, it would prove a worthwhile point.

Proponents for the Aspie nation or town idea, need to keep turning up these excellent pro arguments, while simultaneously mitigating the con arguments.

For example, a strong con argument is that we are anti-social people attempting to be social, therefore it won't fly. But how about a work-around. How about a half dozen workarounds. For starters: Give each participant/member a quarter acre of land. No one else allowed on their land without the owner's permission. So the obvious con argument following on the heels of that potentially good idea is--where's the land? How do we get the land?

heh....o ye of little faith....remember Kevin Costner's "If you build it, I will come"??......If we show ourselves worthy of making a plan, and have faith, the land will be provided. Initially a core group of people willing to work together needs to form. And they need to decide amongst themselves what they are looking for. There may be offers that could theoretically be turned down due to being unacceptable for such an enterprise.

The secret with this and any endeavor is to think positively and to put a very positive person in charge of the whole enterprise, someone who feels strongly that autism is a gift. For this idea to really take off, an eternal optimist needs to be at the helm. Someone for whom negative ideas and negative thinking just aren't worth bothering with.

heh...that isn't me...but I do know of a WP member who fits that description..


I couldn't imagine any of this happening, but it is a cool thought. It would be a bizzare place wouldn't it, a whole town with aspies/auties, sounds like a perfect scenario for a sitcom, or a hidden camera/reality TV show, hhmmmm. Anyway, as nice as it sounds, it's ever so slightly unrealistic in my opinion, I get what you mean about the jewish israel, but that's based on a religion, not a type of brain. And with so many aspies/auties having problems with executive dysfunction and socialising, then nothing would get done on time. I just don't see it working personally, but it is a cool thought I'll give you that.


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alba
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04 Jul 2009, 4:41 pm

^^yeah, well, I expressed my honest opinion. It will take faith and an eternal optimist at the helm. But holding a very negative opinion that it will never happen, will certianly not help it to happen. Therefore, just admitting to the possibility is better...your foot in the door, so to speak.
And the eternal optimist says--We're going to make this happen, no matter what it takes! Now that's talking. That kind of an attitude is capable of moving mountains, or convincing the universe to help. And it is highly contagious.
The universe blesses those who have faith in themselves. These are the people who are successful and thriving. When they have an ambition or project, they put effort and organizational skill into it. They throw themselves into it---body, mind and spirit. Plus having done this over and over again, they have plenty of experience. The universe cooperates and gives them what they want. Actually it is very difficult for anyone, or the universe, to stop such people. That's what I mean by an eternal optimist. They create a way where no way existed before. Yay for them.

The aspie community will not come into existence without one of them at the helm. And it would come into existence that much faster with an NT eternal optimist at the helm.



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04 Jul 2009, 4:48 pm

Sometimes I become a little frustrated about NT's, but there are still many great ones out there. There is one aspie I never got along with who was a bit of a bully... perhaps he was just incredibly insecure and hung out with the wrong crowd.

There are many many more NT's in the world, which means most damage is going to be done by them, so yes - lots of NT's scare the hell out of me, and I hate some of them I'd go as far as saying... but not every single NT is in the same bracket at all. There are some amazing people out there, NT or otherwise.


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MrLoony
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04 Jul 2009, 9:49 pm

alba wrote:
^^yeah, well, I expressed my honest opinion. It will take faith and an eternal optimist at the helm. But holding a very negative opinion that it will never happen, will certianly not help it to happen. Therefore, just admitting to the possibility is better...your foot in the door, so to speak.
And the eternal optimist says--We're going to make this happen, no matter what it takes! Now that's talking. That kind of an attitude is capable of moving mountains, or convincing the universe to help. And it is highly contagious.
The universe blesses those who have faith in themselves. These are the people who are successful and thriving. When they have an ambition or project, they put effort and organizational skill into it. They throw themselves into it---body, mind and spirit. Plus having done this over and over again, they have plenty of experience. The universe cooperates and gives them what they want. Actually it is very difficult for anyone, or the universe, to stop such people. That's what I mean by an eternal optimist. They create a way where no way existed before. Yay for them.

The aspie community will not come into existence without one of them at the helm. And it would come into existence that much faster with an NT eternal optimist at the helm.


What you describe is not an optimist. An optimist believes in the impossible. A realist, however, believes in themselves and their ability to alter reality to a reasonable degree. A realist can accomplish their dreams because their dreams can happen.

And an autistic community must be made with an autistic mind. It cannot be led by a NT, or else the goal of it, to bring belief in autistic individual success to the world. If you ever get a change, read Black Like Me and pay special attention to John Howard Griffin's notes at the end. He mentioned the fact that the black community realized that they had to lead themselves for anyone to take them seriously. The same must be true of the autistic community. We cannot have NTs lead us, or else it merely proves that we cannot lead ourselves.

MONKEY wrote:
I couldn't imagine any of this happening, but it is a cool thought. It would be a bizzare place wouldn't it, a whole town with aspies/auties, sounds like a perfect scenario for a sitcom, or a hidden camera/reality TV show, hhmmmm. Anyway, as nice as it sounds, it's ever so slightly unrealistic in my opinion, I get what you mean about the jewish israel, but that's based on a religion, not a type of brain. And with so many aspies/auties having problems with executive dysfunction and socialising, then nothing would get done on time. I just don't see it working personally, but it is a cool thought I'll give you that.


Then we find what works. We are not going to be able to start an autistic community in the next few years, so we have that time to plan.

For example, for any city or town to work, it must not only import goods from other towns and cities, but it also must have something that other cities would want, or some other way to obtain external revenue (Reno, for example, thrives on tourism). I would imagine that we might have art, writing, and computer programs as our primary exports. What is something else that tends to draw the autistic mind?

Edit: Actually, as we're already off-topic, it might be best not to answer that in this thread.


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alba
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04 Jul 2009, 10:37 pm

MrLoony,
You seem like a bright fellow with good ideas. However I beg to differ. First however, the point about being off-topic. This thread is about AS/NT hatred. Many of the contributors here have implied there needs to be an alternative to hatred. The aspie/autie community is one such alternative. A solution, albeit not a very feasible one to most at WP. To my way of thinking, perfectly on topic. My thinking may be flawed however, and if so, I would stand corrected. I'm not all that skilled at staying on-topic.

To continue, briefly..
Wouldn't it be nice if there were something that enabled a bridge to be built between NTs and Aspies? Perhaps a cooperative venture? It doesn't appear practical we can all work together, but there are some Aspies and some NTs who work very well together. If a realistic, optimistic NT wanted to help us and was willing to listen to our requests and requirements and proceed according to our recommendations, what's the prob? It IS possible. Though perhaps not likely.



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05 Jul 2009, 10:34 am

Well, if anyone wants to discuss an Aspie 'Nation' further, I've created a forum called... Aspie Nation.


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MrLoony
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05 Jul 2009, 7:18 pm

alba wrote:
MrLoony,
You seem like a bright fellow with good ideas. However I beg to differ. First however, the point about being off-topic. This thread is about AS/NT hatred. Many of the contributors here have implied there needs to be an alternative to hatred. The aspie/autie community is one such alternative. A solution, albeit not a very feasible one to most at WP. To my way of thinking, perfectly on topic. My thinking may be flawed however, and if so, I would stand corrected. I'm not all that skilled at staying on-topic.

To continue, briefly..
Wouldn't it be nice if there were something that enabled a bridge to be built between NTs and Aspies? Perhaps a cooperative venture? It doesn't appear practical we can all work together, but there are some Aspies and some NTs who work very well together. If a realistic, optimistic NT wanted to help us and was willing to listen to our requests and requirements and proceed according to our recommendations, what's the prob? It IS possible. Though perhaps not likely.


I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why this wouldn't work:

1. If NTs and autistics built the community together, autistics may still be in the minority.
2. Even if we were in the majority, the idea would be that NTs would be making the decisions and keeping the project going. That is assuming that they would not be trying to take charge.

That isn't to say that NTs would not be allowed into the community. However, the community would have to be built by autistics without NT management, or else the entire point of the community would be lost.

I do have difficulty staying on-topic as well. This discussion is a little off-topic because it's meant to point out that it's not just NTs that are hateful. The idea of this thread is that the attitudes of both groups need to be changed before a true neurodiverse world is possible. An autistic community would have to have the this as one of its goals, but it belongs in its own topic, perhaps even its own discussion area.

Back on topic:

Interestingly enough, I've met a couple of aspies who are self-hating, you could say. They've been told for so long that the way they are is wrong that they begin to believe it themselves. I've even seen this attitude here. Of course, as soon as I typed that, I remembered Black Like Me and how John Howard Griffin talked about how some in the black community thought that lighter-skinned blacks were somehow better than the darker-skinned amongst them. No, it's not the same, but there are certain parallels that can be drawn.


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02 Aug 2009, 5:48 pm

I'm bumping this thread, as I think it should be read.


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sartresue
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02 Aug 2009, 6:57 pm

Do the bump topic

Read it and weep.


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Michjo
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02 Aug 2009, 7:28 pm

From a technical point of veiw it seems to be describing someone with aspergers. Although from a usage point of veiw in my experience people with aspergers are more likely to write such vitriol about "Neurotypicals".

So i'd have to guess it was stated by an aspie and aimed at an NT.



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02 Aug 2009, 11:34 pm

I think that there's good and bad, in everyone.


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Henriksson
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03 Aug 2009, 7:33 am

What the hell, I made a video about it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FiGrOhmrDQ[/youtube]


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zena4
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03 Aug 2009, 7:41 am

That's a great one.
Thanks for sharing :thumleft:

(You really have a great voice. Do you sing?)