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Zeno
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29 Apr 2010, 9:18 am

I genuinely worry about what will happen when demographic pressures push many Americans who are labeled “White” too far. I do not want to come across as a racist too, but I do think that it is ridiculous for anyone to be denied opportunities on account of their race. If people want the good things in life, then they ought to work for it. Brandishing one’s ethnicity and calling upon historical guilt only condemns everyone to mediocrity.

As the recent debate on the “racist” nature of the Tea Party movement and the passionate howls elicited on both sides by Arizona’s decision show, race relations in the United States have never been stable. The Civil War and the war with Mexico all point to the fragility of the inter-ethnic dialogue in America. I had a professor in college who actually viewed the illegal immigration of Mexicans into America as the legitimate claim of a people’s birthright. However sympathetic I am to the Hispanic population in America, I am also aware of the problems that illegal immigration has created in the societies that host these migrants.

Was having a Black President really such a good thing? Poor Barrack Obama, he strikes me as the wrong man for the wrong times. Much will be blamed on him and the vitriol will be unjust. Come November when the Republicans win enough seats in Congress to block all legislation, Americans will finally feel the full force of the broken economy. I wonder how it will be possible to explain to a 30 or 40 something White American that he needs to go from $125,000 a year to $25,000 a year and that he will need to move his family to apartments where drug dealing is commonplace and in the open because that is just how it is.

It is going to be a lot worse than I had originally thought.



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30 Apr 2010, 7:12 am

Zeno wrote:
If you live in America, you should buy a gun. A handgun to start but an AK-47 would probably be better.

What will you do when the riots start?

People have been doing just that since just before Obama was elected. I think Americans are going into a "throw the bums out" phase of politics and our foreign policy style is poised to go into an isolationist mode as well.


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Zeno
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30 Apr 2010, 7:27 pm

When I started this thread, I was half joking about the gun thing but now I am not joking at all. Popular rage is held in check only because very generous unemployment benefits have been continued. But these payments are resulting in a great deal of resentment amongst the middle class who view it as unfair that people who do not work should enjoy the same lifestyle as they do. In the November elections, it is the majority who work hard for their daily sustenance who will call the shots. The country will very clearly shift to the right as people stand up against the left wing policies practiced by the Obama administration. It is anyone’s guess what will happen when people in their 30s, 40s and 50s realize that their weekly checks are no more and that being out of the workforce for more than a year or two means that they are essentially unemployable. We are witnessing the great unraveling of American society and blaming immigrants groups like Hispanics is only the beginning.

Buy a gun and learn how to use it. I favor the AK-47 because you can use it to suppress attackers from a distance. Map out safe areas and prepare emergency kits because it is going to get rough.



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01 May 2010, 6:43 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world ... e.html?hpw

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“This crisis is not my fault, I won’t accept these austerity measures and I want to know where all the money has gone,” Emily Thomaidis, 29, the owner of a coffee shop, said as she marched through central Athens past vendors selling newspapers with the headlines “Fear. Rage. Hope.” She added, “Why should my generation have to pay the price for problems created by our parents’ generation?”



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02 May 2010, 4:29 am

So how much do they pay you Zeno? Why else would a foreigner post about US politics?
Who pays you?
No USA aspie needs to sucked into this trolls thread.


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Zeno
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02 May 2010, 6:50 pm

I write with sadness and he responds with anger, but it is exactly that sort of rage which makes my point. There are increasing signs that Americans will react angrily and violently to the changes that they must adapt to. The anger arises from the belief that the social contract has been betrayed and the violence stems from the sense of powerlessness in stopping the decline or retrieving all which has been lost. It is anger that will feed on itself even as it destroys and thus creates the conditions for its own growth.

When I started this thread in the middle of 2009, most people simply wrote off what I was saying. “This is America,” they assumed, “of course the country will bounce back. Hasn’t it always done so?” A year later and now these same people are not so certain. Everywhere there are signs of popular discontent which cannot be ignored. Why are the people angry?



zer0netgain
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02 May 2010, 8:07 pm

Zeno wrote:
Why are the people angry?


The streets should have been running with rivers of blood years ago, but the American people were asleep. The crisis going on THEN was just something that happened to someone who lived in the next town.

Now it's everywhere, and people are starting to understand how badly screwed over they have been by the people telling them to trust them right now.

Why do you think the government is screaming that we're in "recovery" because we're loosing fewer jobs this quarter than we did this time last year? It's all about what I call a "controlled crash." Things are corkscrewing into the ground and government wants Joe Sixpack to have time to acclimate to the disaster so the anger and outrage justly owed to those in power is dissipated into something (or someone) else.

America's prosperity, freedom and power was not stolen overnight...it was done methodically over several decades with policies and programs that undermined sovereignty, sound economic policy and the potential to create wealth for every American. Now the house of cards is ready to come crashing down.



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03 May 2010, 6:59 am

zer0netgain wrote:
America's prosperity, freedom and power was not stolen overnight...it was done methodically over several decades with policies and programs that undermined sovereignty, sound economic policy and the potential to create wealth for every American. Now the house of cards is ready to come crashing down.


No one stole anything from America. The truth is that the grand patrimony from winning the Second World War was basically spent to oblivion. If they had not used the inheritance, do you think that life in America could be as sweet as it has been? The problem is, now that the money has been squandered, what will this present generation of Americans do?

My views are neither left nor right in that I do not see programs as the problem or the answer, nor do I view lower taxes as the be all and end all of politics. Every country must adjust itself to new realities. Stop the giveaways if it is no longer affordable. And by that I mean cutting unjustified social programs as well as raising unreasonably low tax rates. As America’s founders realized, government is needed and if so, then it must be paid for. Relying on other people to foot the bill is just self delusory. Sooner or later it will double back on you and the outcome will be incredibly painful.



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03 May 2010, 8:59 am

Zeno wrote:
I write with sadness and he responds with anger, but it is exactly that sort of rage which makes my point. There are increasing signs that Americans will react angrily and violently to the changes that they must adapt to. The anger arises from the belief that the social contract has been betrayed and the violence stems from the sense of powerlessness in stopping the decline or retrieving all which has been lost. It is anger that will feed on itself even as it destroys and thus creates the conditions for its own growth.

When I started this thread in the middle of 2009, most people simply wrote off what I was saying. “This is America,” they assumed, “of course the country will bounce back. Hasn’t it always done so?” A year later and now these same people are not so certain. Everywhere there are signs of popular discontent which cannot be ignored. Why are the people angry?


Awwww...you care so much about us eh? :(





Just admit it, you're excited and can't wait to see even the average american sink into the crevices and crests of hell, fire, and brimstone. :wink:


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Zeno
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05 May 2010, 6:56 am

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD9FGLBT00

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ATHENS, Greece — Police used stun grenades and tear gas in clashes with protestors Wednesday as tens of thousands of outraged Greeks took to the streets against harsh new spending cuts aimed at saving their country from bankruptcy.


The austerity measures have not been implemented yet and this is the outcome. The violence in Greece is escalating and the protests only hinder the recovery process and hurt the Greeks. Still they insist that the fight must go on.

Rage that destroys and thus creating the ground for anger to feed.



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05 May 2010, 7:57 am

I heard from my dad that the Greeks have what they got because they aren't working. <.< Implying that "some" of them are on welfare or somesuch... <.< Anyways....



Zeno
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05 May 2010, 6:09 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 117546.ece

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The President of Greece warned last night that his country stood on the brink of the abyss after three people were killed when an anti-government mob set fire to the Athens bank where they worked.



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05 May 2010, 7:02 pm

It's not really a suprise that the people of Greece would act in this way. At the end of the day within the lifetime of most of the middle aged population they have experianced military dictatorship, civil war and the annexation of territory (Northern Cyprus) from a neighbouring power. When you've experianced that kind of militancy it impacts on the way a people behave who feel they are losing a way of life they feel they have earned and struggled for.

Really their economic problems began with the money they spent on the Olympic games in 2004 and the previous government hiding from the opposition and general public just how badly in debt the greek economy was.

The UK is going to be holding an election tomorrow and regardless of who wins we are probably going to have to make major cuts in state services one way or the other. However the current trendy politics is for these services to be given out to the private sector or the voluntary sector or even better still to simply let any person who fancies setting up a school or running a day service for disabled people have the freedom to do so and give the peope the responsibility and the work of setting up services that government wants to escape out of the liability of having to provide to its populus. It sounds like an idea fresh from over the atlantic to me. But then one of our political parties is using that phrase Lyndon Johnson was so fond of "the great society" as its manifesto



zer0netgain
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06 May 2010, 7:08 am

Laz wrote:
Really their economic problems began with the money they spent on the Olympic games in 2004 and the previous government hiding from the opposition and general public just how badly in debt the greek economy was.


Much as is in the USA today.

Government knew how bad the economy was, but it's all been spin doctor and market finagling in an effort to make the "crash" happen slower so people can be distracted with other things.

We've not been in a recession. It's more than a depression. It's a full-fledged collapse. The vast majority of American jobs are low-paying SERVICE based jobs. The "professional" jobs and manufacturing jobs are much smaller portions of the overall workforce and easily outsourced.

Before the end of WWII, it was common for 4-6 people to live under one roof and need all those incomes to get by. Farming was the predominant means of living for Americans. It was NEVER the standard for an average person to grow up, move out on their own, and live better than his mom and dad. That "American Dream" was only true for a couple of generations (if you count 30 years as a generation). We're now reverting to what was the norm...and MOST people can't (or won't) see it for what it is.



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06 May 2010, 8:58 am

Greece’s problems have little to do with the Athens Olympics. If foreign occupation and dictatorial political regimes make a country fiscally irresponsible, then the Koreans would really rise to the top of the list. Korea was brutally colonized by the Japanese at the beginning of the 20th century and then endured a devastating civil war before passing from one military dictatorship to another. They too hosted the Olympics and spent a bomb making the affair a grand success. South Korea was hard hit by the 1997/8 Asian Financial Crisis but they bounced back and by the beginning of the millennium, they had basically repaid all of the IMF loans.

The situation in Greece is very different. Even under the most optimistic scenarios, Greece is still projected to run a fiscal deficit of around 3%. Obviously if you spend more than you earn, there is no way the borrowings can be paid back. A lot more pain would be needed if Greece were required stay an even keel and not borrow any more money. To cut such that debt holders can expect a repayment of their principal, meaning that the Greeks have to start generating a surplus, would probably trigger a civil war as many of the country’s basic services are eliminated.

The Greeks are angry but why should a German or French retiree experience losses while Greek pensioners continue to live the high life at other people’s expense? At the end of the day, all that Greek debt can be mapped to some individual in countries where the government and people have been responsible enough to save for their own future. Why should the good suffer so that the profligate can go on spending? That is the question that America will soon be confronted with. Only, unlike Greece, there is no Germany who will bail America out.