Gays and the US Military

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How do you all feel about gays in the US military. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed in the military or they should?

As a gay man and in the US Army, I think gays should be allowed. I don't even understand why they're not allowed. Maybe one of you guys could explain why they're not allowed in the military. You guys seem knowledgeable about this kind of stuff.

In ancient Greece it was no only allowed but encouraged....

I believe it's a breach of security.

If gay are permitted in the military, then it would make sense to permit women to share quarters with men right?

If you see nothing wrong with that, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it.

They're not allowed because they're the last group that can be demonized.

Frankly, you'd be amazed how much homoerotic imagery is used for recruitment. The military is where you go to become a "man." If gays could serve openly, even if they behaved themselves, it would undermine the "macho" image of the military.

Such a view is contrary to military history. The Greek Hoplites often consisted of pair bonded male lovers who guarded each other's backs fiercely and sometimes to the death. In both the Athenian Hoplites and the Spartan Hoplites there was a large component of male homosexuality.

The Spartan equals (those officially "citizens") spent most of their time in the barracks with each other and only rarely went home to their wives to make babies. There was a strong bi-sexual dynamic at work in Sparta.

ruveyn

I think they should be allowed and they should also be able to be open about their sexual preference. They are allowed in my country anyway, since 1992. Basically I think that gay people should have the same rights as heterosexuals in all areas of the law as this includes eligibility to join the defence forces.



They are not allowed because of hate and ignorance. However, the following excuses are given by the ignorant people who support continued discrimination against homosexuality: because they might be targets for abuse by other people in the military (so I guess to promote harmony and to protect gay people), because they think homosexuality is immoral and because they think that there will be increased acts of homosexuality between people in the military (and relationships in general are frowned upon between people that work in close proximity).

Well, I still don't get it. I don't actually care one way or another but it's a fascinating discussion - hence, I'm in.

IMHO, having a gay man in your unit is the same as having a woman in your unit.

1. One or more of the men could become "involved" in a relationship or encounter and this could disrupt the functioning of the unit.

2. Since you'd all be showering and toileting together, would it bother people if they thought that someone in their troop might be checking them out while they did it - gay, or female?

3. If a person who was attracted to someone in the group acted on instinct, there could be cases of molestation, even rape. That could happen in a gay or female situation.

The one difference between a gay and a female in the army could be that females are treated more precociously. Not necessarily allowed to do the same things that men do. Perhaps not lift as heavy loads, or get as "dirty".

btw: Excuse my ignorance if I'm offending anyone. I'm interested in debate, that's all - and not in any way qualified to hold any opinions in this matter.

I served 7 years in the US Army, I have NO problems with gays in the military! You want To pick up a rifle and follow me into battle, Here is ammo! Only problem I can think about it; the straight guy worrying you will tell there wife what they did on tdy. Most straight guys are stupid and just want to blow s**t up and prove to there bad fathers that they are a man. On the other hand, do you really want to serve with a bunch of destuctive personalities?

There are gays in the army right now, some of them are openly gay (usually in a garrison unit), some of them have to hide it (line unit). I think they oughtta just come out and accept openly gay people. Does it make others uncomfortable? Sure, it must've made lots of soldiers uncomfortable when they realized they'd have to serve with minorities, doesn't mean it's right to blame them for the level of discomfort you feel.

I can't say that anyone will feel comfortable with a gay man making passes at commerades down the range, but so far I've had 3 gay roomates in the army, not a single one of them tried to do anything with me, I don't see what everyone's so worried about.

what about lesbian people...?

Kindda hard for me to spot, I'm always barking up a wrong tree to begin with.

There was a time in our society, not so very long ago, when if people learned you were gay, it would destroy your life - you could be targeted for crimes and the cops would do nothing (hell, sometimes the cops would assist the criminals!), you could be denied jobs, housing, and seating in public places because of your sexuality... the list goes on. During that time, if you were in the military and an enemy agent learned you were gay, it was quite plausible that they could use this information to blackmail you for espionage purposes (thus the idea Averick expressed above, that it was a "security breach").

The proper way to deal with this, of course, was for society to change so that you could no longer be blackmailed with this information - a transformation that has occurred throughout most of America today. (There are still pockets of hatred and ignorance out there, but they grow smaller and fewer each day.) Thus, the one good reason there had been to forbid gays to serve has been eliminated.

From my own experience, when your troops are in the field, they're too flipping tired to be making passes at each other. When you've spent the day marching through hostile territory, carrying a 60-lb pack, ballistic armor, your weapon and ammo, and (in the case of certain Army units) the Land Warrior system equipment, the last thing on your mind when you finally shuck it off at the end of the day is sex - whether with men, women, farm animals, or some of the larger tropical fruit.

(I liked the Denis Leary routine on the topic, boiling down to: "I'm straight!" "Great, here's a gun!" "I'm flaming gay!" "Here's a pink gun! Go!" "I like to scr*w animals!" "Here's a sheep and a gun! Go, go, go!! !")

Well, American military tradition isn't based on the Greeks.




Part of being in the military is self-discipline. "Fraternization" is prohibited amongst enlisted ranks. It is frowned upon among officers in the same chain of command. Being professional means repressing conduct that might be disruptive to the unit's effectiveness. Someone who can't bring themselves to act professionally shouldn't be in the military.



Men shower and use bathrooms all the time with no knowledge of another mans sexuality. Nothing can be done to prevent that. Frankly, men who think they are being checked out by other guys either are closet cases themselves or have an unduly high opinion of themselves. Again, it goes back to being professional, and you'd be amazed how much faggotry goes on between heterosexual men who are just horsing around.



True. We let women serve, and sometimes rape occurs. We really don't blame the woman for being a woman. We blame the men for not having self-control.

If anything there is a stronger argument to exclude women from the military because there have been complaints of them getting the same job, but lighter duty, submitting to the same training standard, but being given more "creature comforts," wanting the same job, but since so few pass the physical requirements, they are given a lower standard to measure up to...counterproductive since in combat the enemy doesn't care about your gender.

I think gays should be allowed to serve in the military, although if there is a rule against them, any gays currently serving clearly aren't cut out to be in the military, since their whole profession is based around lies.

Just coming in to tell you of one the most awesome gays in the military ever.