Mercury and Autism: Could it be the fish?

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Maggiedoll
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19 Jul 2009, 3:42 pm

Tantybi wrote:
The omega 3s can also be found in supplements now. I take Expecta because the DHA comes from a nonfish source. What I don't get is the box says it's for pregnant or nursing moms, but didn't the DHA come about from what they found that already existed in breastmilk?


Hmm, I don't actually know. Flax is good for the omega-3s too.. Whenever I make bread, or anything with dough (which is quite often!), I put milled flax in it. Then when I make pizza I can tell people it's good for their brain. :P



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20 Jul 2009, 12:52 pm

Maggiedoll wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
The omega 3s can also be found in supplements now. I take Expecta because the DHA comes from a nonfish source. What I don't get is the box says it's for pregnant or nursing moms, but didn't the DHA come about from what they found that already existed in breastmilk?


Hmm, I don't actually know. Flax is good for the omega-3s too.. Whenever I make bread, or anything with dough (which is quite often!), I put milled flax in it. Then when I make pizza I can tell people it's good for their brain. :P


LOL That's so cool.



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20 Jul 2009, 2:45 pm

I don't eat fish, nor do my parents. I doubt that's the cause massively. Maybe in a few cases. But the genetic bases seems so strong to me.


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20 Jul 2009, 7:41 pm

The mercury hypothesis of autism is an example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy. Children receive several vaccinations when they're 2. Autism is often first noticeable within a year afterwards. The fallacy then claims that the vaccine caused the autism. The fallacy is shown to be such when people who did not receive vaccinations at age 2 (older people) develop autism at the same rates. The only reason that there can be a true increase in the autism rate is assortative mating: geeks marrying other geeks, when they wouldn't have in the past. Since autism is the "geek disease", this increases the risk that their children will have autism. This has been especially noticeable in Silicon Valley.


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sinsboldly
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20 Jul 2009, 8:27 pm

WoodenNickel wrote:
Asperge is French for Asparagus


so, and Asperge-er is a Asparagus cultivator?


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makuranososhi
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20 Jul 2009, 8:52 pm

WoodenNickel wrote:
The mercury hypothesis of autism is an example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy. Children receive several vaccinations when they're 2. Autism is often first noticeable within a year afterwards. The fallacy then claims that the vaccine caused the autism. The fallacy is shown to be such when people who did not receive vaccinations at age 2 (older people) develop autism at the same rates. The only reason that there can be a true increase in the autism rate is assortative mating: geeks marrying other geeks, when they wouldn't have in the past. Since autism is the "geek disease", this increases the risk that their children will have autism. This has been especially noticeable in Silicon Valley.


There are multiple forms and sources of mercury exposure; Arizona State University did a study where pica and maternal seafood consumption were both shown to have a relationship with autism. Does this mean that it is causal? Not even close. But it is another lead, an environmental trigger than may set off a larger mechanism in part, or it could be nothing but another avenue of research that won't be closed until it is fully explored.


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21 Jul 2009, 5:14 am

WoodenNickel wrote:
The mercury hypothesis of autism is an example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy. Children receive several vaccinations when they're 2. Autism is often first noticeable within a year afterwards. The fallacy then claims that the vaccine caused the autism. The fallacy is shown to be such when people who did not receive vaccinations at age 2 (older people) develop autism at the same rates. The only reason that there can be a true increase in the autism rate is assortative mating: geeks marrying other geeks, when they wouldn't have in the past. Since autism is the "geek disease", this increases the risk that their children will have autism. This has been especially noticeable in Silicon Valley.

The mercury hypothesis is based on the fact that mercury is one of the strongest neurotoxins and that area's with industial spillages involving mercury usually have IQ drops and higher rates of autism.

The vaccine hypothesis on the other hand is a completely different hypothesis and i suggest you learn the difference before claiming a lack of logical fallacy in the whole field.



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21 Jul 2009, 7:55 am

Michjo wrote:
WoodenNickel wrote:
The mercury hypothesis of autism is an example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy. Children receive several vaccinations when they're 2. Autism is often first noticeable within a year afterwards. The fallacy then claims that the vaccine caused the autism. The fallacy is shown to be such when people who did not receive vaccinations at age 2 (older people) develop autism at the same rates. The only reason that there can be a true increase in the autism rate is assortative mating: geeks marrying other geeks, when they wouldn't have in the past. Since autism is the "geek disease", this increases the risk that their children will have autism. This has been especially noticeable in Silicon Valley.

The mercury hypothesis is based on the fact that mercury is one of the strongest neurotoxins and that area's with industial spillages involving mercury usually have IQ drops and higher rates of autism.

The vaccine hypothesis on the other hand is a completely different hypothesis and i suggest you learn the difference before claiming a lack of logical fallacy in the whole field.


I think Wooden Nickel was then referring to the vaccine hypothesis.

I don't quite buy all the mercury stuff yet (all together) because I think there's more evidence with genetics, but I can buy that you can get autistic like symptoms that might be curable due to mercury. I know it sounds crazy, and it doesn't make any sense, but the only reason I give the mercury hypothesis all together any justice is because one of my special interests happens to be Beethoven (used to actually) becuase he died March 26 1827 in Vienna Austria around the same age my father died in Vienna (state of US) on March 26. Anyway, they have recently discovered from a piece of his hair saved throughout many generations that there's a high level of mercury in his hair making them think he had lead poisoning, and Beethoven did act kinda Aspie in his old age though I wouldn't dx him with it. Warned you that it was crazy, but anyway, that's why I am not totally closing my mind on the subject.



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21 Jul 2009, 8:02 am

Tantybi wrote:
Anyway, they have recently discovered from a piece of his hair saved throughout many generations that there's a high level of mercury in his hair making them think he had lead poisoning, and Beethoven did act kinda Aspie in his old age though I wouldn't dx him with it. Warned you that it was crazy, but anyway, that's why I am not totally closing my mind on the subject.

They find lead, arsenic and cyanide in old hair samples as well. I'm very glad i was born into the time-period i have been, the past sounds a very dangerous place!



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21 Jul 2009, 8:47 am

Tantybi wrote:
Anyway, they have recently discovered from a piece of his hair saved throughout many generations that there's a high level of mercury in his hair making them think he had lead poisoning, and Beethoven did act kinda Aspie in his old age though I wouldn't dx him with it. Warned you that it was crazy, but anyway, that's why I am not totally closing my mind on the subject.


Beethoven was profoundly deaf in his older age. Perhaps it is a lack of one of the ususal senses that makes neurotypical behaviour 'Aspie-ish?'


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21 Jul 2009, 8:52 am

sinsboldly wrote:
WoodenNickel wrote:
Asperge is French for Asparagus


so, and Asperge-er is a Asparagus cultivator?

Funny, my wife and I casually call it "my asparagus" around the house.


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21 Jul 2009, 8:56 am

makuranososhi wrote:
Does this mean that it is causal? Not even close. But it is another lead, an environmental trigger than may set off a larger mechanism in part, or it could be nothing but another avenue of research that won't be closed until it is fully explored.

It probably won't even be closed then. There are people who have completely made up their minds about vaccines causing autism, and they won't believe any of the studies put forth that demonstrate the contrary. It's the classic example of hearing what you want to hear.


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21 Jul 2009, 9:16 am

CerebralDreamer wrote:
Mercury levels in the environment are low enough you can drink the water, but the concentration grows exponentially as you go up the food chain. It's bad enough the FDA is warning people to limit their consumption of fish, especially those at the top of the food chain. The warning is only emphasized for pregnant mothers, because of increased vulnerability in the fetal stage.

I don't particularly trust what the FDA says. They both underreact and overreact. They say that pregnant women shouldn't eat sushi, for instance, because of the risk of food-borne illness (nothing to do with mercury). Because of the way sushi is handled here in the U.S., however, you actually have a much smaller chance of getting a food-borne illness from sushi than from other meats. We have a Japanese friend that is absolutely appalled that the FDA makes that recommendation. She said, "They shouldn't tell pregnant women to stop eating sushi; they should tell them to stop eating McDonald's!" So use the FDA as a guideline, but don't forget to use your own head, too.

CerebralDreamer wrote:
Do you have any idea how many women I see talk about how unhealthy beef or pork is, as they shovel down a mercury-rich salmon dinner?

Salmon is actually quite low in mercury. Even wild salmon is significantly lower in mercury than what is considered an upper bound of safety.

CerebralDreamer wrote:
My question is, what if the mercury claims were right?

What if they are right? You probably drink treated water every day, but what if fluoride is actually very harmful to you? What if cell phone and WiFi transmissions are actually slowly predisposing you to cancer? What if air pollution is decreasing your life span? You could choose to "what if" your environment to death, but that will only make you paranoid.

There is some evidence out there that suggests that very moderate exposure to environmental toxins actually make us stronger, more physically resilient people.

I don't live in fear of conditions I can't really control. I make the best choices I can with the information that I have, controlling things that are reasonable to control.

CerebralDreamer wrote:
The FDA says you shouldn't eat seafood more than twice a month. Does anyone want to guess what a mercury-rich dinner twice a week over nine months might do to a fetus?

Go ahead and guess, because that's about as good as you're going to get.


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21 Jul 2009, 10:52 am

May our tribe increase! topic

Maybe it is the baloney :roll: that causes autism.

There is a whole thread about this in the Off the Wall forum.

I still say it is the milkman. :twisted:


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21 Jul 2009, 1:19 pm

The fish and shrimp likely doesn't cause it. It's genetic in my family tree. I reccomend domesticated fish. Not fish caught from the sea, as those ARE indeed comtaninated with God knows what, thanks to Human kind.



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21 Jul 2009, 8:33 pm

LiendaBalla wrote:
I reccomend domesticated fish. .


oh, NOES. . .not WANDA!


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