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Magneto
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19 Jul 2009, 10:27 am

DSM-IV wrote:
The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.


Eh? Occupational I can understand, i.e. you keep getting fired, but... social? What sort of social situations are they talking about? Being out in public? Or are they refering to the making friends aspect of things, in which case how many are enough?

If you don't fit this criteria, you don't have Aspergers, even if you fit the other criteira, right? So a lot of people could be 'cured' merely if they don't fit criteria E, without having to alter any of the other characteristics.


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RarePegs
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19 Jul 2009, 10:39 am

Magneto wrote:
DSM-IV wrote:
The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.


Eh? Occupational I can understand, i.e. you keep getting fired, but... social? What sort of social situations are they talking about? Being out in public? Or are they refering to the making friends aspect of things, in which case how many are enough?

If you don't fit this criteria, you don't have Aspergers, even if you fit the other criteira, right? So a lot of people could be 'cured' merely if they don't fit criteria E, without having to alter any of the other characteristics.


Note that it says "social, occupational, OR other" and NOT "social, occupational, AND other". Also, it does not say "social AND occupational, or other". By including an "or" but not an "and", it only requires you to have difficulties in at least one of those areas.



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19 Jul 2009, 10:52 am

When reading medical books or other sophisticated material it is important to pay close attention to logical connectives, such as AND, OR, IF, BUT, BECAUSE, SO, etc..



DaWalker
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19 Jul 2009, 10:57 am

perhaps the inability to socially participate without being the awkward one who everbody is always rolling their eyes at.

perhaps they are referring to the inability to match one's words, feelings and voice tone all at once

being completely contempt without the social interaction of acquaintances, friends, family or lack thereof



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19 Jul 2009, 11:11 am

DaWalker wrote:

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being completely contempt without the social interaction of acquaintances, friends, family or lack thereof


as far as Freudian slips go, that one is priceless. :lol: (I can relate.)



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19 Jul 2009, 12:30 pm

I think of the difficulty or inability to establishing and maintaining friendships and other relationships, as well as being socially inappropriate due to inability to read/interpret body language.

This has a significant impact not only on general quality of life.. mutual aid and interests, but on dealing with repair people, health care professionals, service people in general. I've probably received poor service occasionally because my odd social persona created a dislike in the mechanic, contractor, waitress, teacher... whomever.

It also has a serious impact on business networking, if you are so fortunate as to be able to have and maintain a job. Missed opportunities, inside tracks, cultivating personal contacts to advantage... all lost to us.



dustintorch
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19 Jul 2009, 12:32 pm

DaWalker wrote:
perhaps the inability to socially participate without being the awkward one who everbody is always rolling their eyes at.

perhaps they are referring to the inability to match one's words, feelings and voice tone all at once

being completely contempt without the social interaction of acquaintances, friends, family or lack thereof


agree

agee

and agree



19 Jul 2009, 1:01 pm

I know my AS has effected me at work so that's an example of that part of the criteria. I don't think it's implying aspies can't hold down a job, it's just implying their condition effects them at their job. That aspie just has to be lucky to hold down a job by finding the one that suits their needs or if they are capable of running their own business, or they just have a understanding boss or if the aspie can deal with being flexible and can deal with the feelings inside.

AS also effects relationships like it does with me and when I'm with big groups of people. I am fine with one person. All you're doing is talking to them and they are listening and if they are talking to you, it's easy to talk and there are no other people around you talking to that person also and they are all ignoring you and interrupting each other because they all know the cue to and you don't.



Sora
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19 Jul 2009, 1:03 pm

The elaboration on the criterion says this:

Quote:
The disturbance must cause clinically significant impairment in social adaptation, which in turn may have a significant impact on self-sufficiency or on occupational or other important areas of functioning (Criterion C).


If you can't even get through an interview, you can't get a job.

If you can't stand others talking to you or even not their presence, you will have problems being outside doing normal things like shopping, going out, just being outside (you could be spoken to because a stranger asks for a cigarette for example).

If you can't call anyone because of the social implications, not only will you have trouble keeping in contact with people, but also won't be able to do many medical and bureaucratic appointments.

If you do not answer to the requests of others, you won't be able to do most normal things.

If you hardly display body language, you won't get a job, people will think it impossible to interact with you.

If you do not take an interest in other people, you will have a hard time getting friends and avoid being hated by everybody.

The DSM also says for that criterion C of AS that:

Quote:
The social deficits and restricted patterns of interests, activities, and behavior are the source of considerable disability.


So anything simple and silly like small misunderstandings and people thinking you're a little weird don't count unless they impair you and perhaps even disable you.


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19 Jul 2009, 1:52 pm

This criterion is part of almost every DSM disorder. The reason is that, in order to be considered disordered (note that it is a psychiatric handbook, so they assume AS is a disorder), you must have significant probelems in your daily life. If you meet all other AS criteria, but function just fine on your job, with friends, etc., there is no need for you to get into the healthcare system. One's level of functioning is determined very globally through the so-called GAF score (Global Assessment of Functioning), see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Assessment_of_Functioning. Generally, a score above 70 means you are not bad enough to get services covered by insurance etc., and most clinicians wouldn't diagnose you then. Remember that it's pretty much guesswork to determine this score, because of course one can function better in one area than another, function better with support, or with a particular type of support, function worse during times of stress, etc.



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19 Jul 2009, 2:08 pm

Thank you, that was helpful to look at. How would you qualify moderate as opposed to mild? I'm somewhere in there.



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19 Jul 2009, 2:23 pm

Aimless wrote:
Thank you, that was helpful to look at. How would you qualify moderate as opposed to mild? I'm somewhere in there.


No clue. I think it's just guesswork, and one clinician might give a totally different score than another.



Magneto
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19 Jul 2009, 4:33 pm

What are those 'other important areas of functioning'?

If I can hold down a job just fine (occupational), and am perfectly happy in my 'social life', would I fit criterion C?


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darby54
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19 Jul 2009, 6:10 pm

What if you're socially non-functional but are fine with it? e.g. a happy hermit. Does "impairment" necessitate a self-dissatisfaction with one's life? (Technically speaking, I mean, per the DSM.)



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19 Jul 2009, 8:32 pm

darby54 wrote:
What if you're socially non-functional but are fine with it? e.g. a happy hermit. Does "impairment" necessitate a self-dissatisfaction with one's life? (Technically speaking, I mean, per the DSM.)


As my evaluation included questionaires to partner and a friend, I suspect that it doesn't matter how we feel about it, so much as how it affects our ability to deal with the outside world [happy hermit here]. And by that I mean goods and services... do our lack of social skills negatively impact our ability to get repairs, shop for necessaries, deal with medical issues?

Being a happy hermit is all well and good up to a certain age or infirmity... :(
Sure, I may be perfectly happy getting senile and dying alone, but what about my animals?